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#51
09/28/2007, 08:09 AM
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It is true that our voices need to be heard by Fedex (and many companies for that matter)--but to be truthful---In all of my experiences with them---they don't care--they say "that is that".
And doc--you say that you square up with Fedex later---no shipping service reimburses for dead livestock--correct? Isn't that what their "approval to ship livestock" is? It waives the shipping services responsibility for DOA or mishaps. That's why its great to deal with a great seller like The Dr's who will financially back whatever happens--no risk. I would love to have an email address or phone number for Fedex direct to the "I Actually Care Department". Maybe the doc can be our representative to the shippers??? Whaddya say??
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Mark Why is it that as my kids get older I have less room in the shower? |
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#52
09/28/2007, 08:43 AM
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I am not a shipping or logistics expert and cannot comment on package distribution other than what I have learned in my 25 years of co-owning Drs. Foster and Smith.
DHL and others are future possibilities. DHL delivers into our facilities but they do not have as widespread distribution and the logistical support as UPS or FedEX. Today, they could not come close to either of the two giants in their ability to handle outbound parcels. I am not sure of UPS's future plans but today they will not carry our livestock. In all honesty, no matter who the carrier is it would be tough to have less problems than FedEX gives us. Weather, human error, mechanical aircraft failure, control tower and computer failure etc,etc problems will always be there with all shippers. The most agonizing to me are things like driver error, customers not being home and in our case, Foster and Smith errors. These are avoidable and should be minimized. With FedEX and UPS, they are incredibly accurate in their delivery. Both however could improve in their customer service skills once a problem has developed. In todays livestock market at least in my venue, the higher priced fish and coral are more commonly being shipped in smaller and better packaged units. The result is better shipping, less stress and the associated mortality. This is true when we ship the local fish store markets as well. I would hate to see us slip back to bulk freight shipments only. These tend to not be as well packed and shipped and are at the mercy of airport personnel and a driver pickup. Additionally most airlines including our inbound Northwest commonly leave the livestock behind for a later arrival, it gets thrown off the plane for more lucrative passenger and associated cargo. Because of this we ship more and more FedEX. I really think that the bulk transportation of livestock should be minimized whenever possible. Direct delivery is the best for the specimens whether that is direct to the home hobbyist or a local fish store. Pay more and avoid the bulk freight. This cannot always be done with very large shipments. To circle back, FedEX in my opinion has served the hobby well. Can they improve ?, yes. I do not think that they will leave us but every time I see them publicly ridiculed it provides them one more reason too. LiveAquaria's Kevin Kohen and others are constantly in face to face meetings with facts and figures showing FedEX how and where to improve-- and they are. I like the approach of Foster and Smith taking care of all your issues ( should we be your supplier )and then we deal with FedEX and the shippers. We know and understand the difficulty the customers have in dealing with FedEx and UPS and that is why we give your money back and we handle the complicated end whenever we can. It does no good to come to a public message forum with the problem because FedEx is not here and it creates misconceptions for the general public, some who oppose the hobby. Some of this may not make sense to the hobbyist residing in fish and coral rich areas such as California. You have the luxury of Wholesalers and other "White truck" distribution to obtain quality livestock. The rest of the nonCalifornia world is very dependant on interstate air shipments of livestock. Right now, FedEX is what we have unless we ship bulk freight, which I avoid when possible. I would rather pay more to the shippers than put the livestock at further risk. To be honest, In my opinion, Kevin Kohen is really the nation's expert on interstate livestock transportation and perhaps he can offer more at a later date in the Liveaquaria.com forum of RC. The moderators would probably appreciate these lengthily discussions being in our own vendor area. Sorry for the length, now you know why my employees tend not to invite me to the meetings.-------------Race |
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#53
09/28/2007, 08:49 AM
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Thanks for your time doc! You have a rare viewpoint---you sound like a hobbyist like us--yet you have a "voice"--being a coral shipping superpower like you are!
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Mark Why is it that as my kids get older I have less room in the shower? |
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#54
09/28/2007, 08:58 AM
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You are welcome Mark,
Kevin and I would rather be associated with the hobby than the industry. The hobby provides a better perspective. The industry could use a bar rag. Really, I have always felt that the hobby should drive the industry and not vice versa. I hope that I am helping it do that. Thanks, Race |
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#55
09/28/2007, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Now you are just flat out making me want to buy coral from you. 
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Mark Why is it that as my kids get older I have less room in the shower? |
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#56
09/29/2007, 10:07 PM
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Those of you who complain about FedEx must not live in the same world as the rest of us. If FedEx would let me pack myself in one of their boxes for shipment instead of having to fly on a US passenger airline, I would fly them every time!
Check recent news. There was a several hour shutdown of the FAA facility in Memphis due to a telephone problem. Delays in the people airline industry stretched from Miami to LA, including at least 50 cancelled flights in Dallas alone. FedEx, whose headquarters and main hub are in Memphis, reported only 11 diverted flights and NO delays in package delivery. If you expect perfection, I ask you to wait until after you become one of my or my colleague's patients. On this Earth, the lack of perfection is normal. While I regret the loss of life that mistakes in livestock delivery cause, we need to remember the bigger picture that many others have already posted on this thread. I ask you bellyachers whether you would rather have your shipment fly on a US passenger airline. If you have a better option, please feel free to use it. Just don't screw it up for the rest of us (Race might have said it more diplomatically, but there it is) who are happy that we can get overnight shipments of livestock. Sorry for the blunt language, but I am old enough to remember a time when the concept of overnight delivery was not even a fantasy, no less a reality. I, for one, am grateful that we have such an option, even if it is not as perfect as all of you complainers must be since you have so little tolerance for error.
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forensicdoc |
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#57
09/30/2007, 01:26 AM
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I haven't had any issues with Fedex overnight, priority overnight. Can't say the same for home delivery.
In respect to the hobby I've sent a good amount of corals using fedex hadn't really had any issues except for once. They failed to deliver it the package by 4:30pm and they reschedule the delivery for the day after next (due to the next day being a holiday). Corresponding with the person receiving the package...he told me he didn't receive it and it was postponed. I gave fedex a call and told them their was "LIVE Animals" in the package and they would not survive extra days. They then sent out a delivery driver at 11:30pm at night and delivered it the guy. Can't beat that. The guy on RC that was getting the package and vouch for the delivery time as well.
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Steve |
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#58
10/02/2007, 08:53 AM
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That is exactly the kind of service I was looking for, and didn't get. Again...and while some of these responses may not have been aimed at me directly, I AM the OP
 I wasn't expecting perfection, I was expecting the company to care enough to do their best to make it right.No result on the insurance yet... jds Quote:
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#59
10/04/2007, 02:45 PM
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Seems this thread has caused quite a stir in other forums too
 OP - sorry for your bad experience. I worked in the courier biz for 11 years in my other life. What happened to you is not uncommon, unfortunately. I've been in that situation where a customer calls, claims non-delivery, the driver has gone home for the day, and we try every number on file to reach him and have no luck. Fortunately in my instances, there was no livestock involved, but I'd hedge a bet that an original set of blueprints or a big check or mortgage closing documents was every bit as urgent as the corals perishing in the box - to the person expecting them. By and large, given the amount of volume these carriers move, their efficiency and accuracy is mind-boggling. Unfortunately if a carrier moves a million parcels a day, even a 1% mistake ratio translates to a LOT of lost packages. Heck even a .01% error ratio is still a buttload of lost or misdirected parcels. I'd hesitate to paint FedEx or any carrier with a huge brush based on one experience, or even a few experiences in residential areas. Having deliveries brought to a place of business is a better bet, since commercial addresses are more familiar to the carriers. Interesting thread though... and having been on both sides of the counter... I can see both sides of the coin. Jenn
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JennM LFS Owner |
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#60
10/04/2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
In my case Fedex's nearest hub is almost a 2 hour drive. They always get lost in my area. UPS has a hub less than a half hour away. Their drivers even know the crazy streets in our gated communities without getting directions. So ever since I had to leave work early to get to that Fedex hub, about 4 years ago, I ALWAYS have Fedex deliveries come to where I work. They've been absolutely flawless. And I won't change that unless Fedex opens a hub closer to where I live, which probably won't be anytime soon. A very recent experience: I was rushing and screwed up an order by put my mailing address in the shipping address field. After about 20 calls between myself, Fedex, the driver, and the vendor, it finally arrived at about 6PM. I never even got to give them directions. I still don't know how they finally found me from a PO box address, but they did, and the livestock arrived just fine since the weather was perfect. My screw-up cost Fedex a bit of money I would say, but they REALLY went the distance and got the package to me. Needless to say I'll be a good deal more careful with my next order, but a big thumbs up to Fedex from me.
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Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? |
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#61
10/04/2007, 03:27 PM
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Well, when I worked in courier, 150 years ago *g*, and long before the Internet, we had reverse lookup directories and all kids of other monolithic books and such to locate people.
Nowadays, it's not hard to find somebody who has a phone book listing by using anywho or any of the myriad other search engines. I daresay carriers nowadays have more access to such things that the general public does not. I know we used to pay a fortune for reverse lookup directories back in the day - and I don't think any joe schmoe could get one - but they sure did come in handy. I'd bet they found you with a tool such as that. Most carriers now *require* a phone number for the shipper and consignee. The downside to that is many people don't have land lines anymore - the reverse directories we had even carried unlisted phone information (hence the hoops we had to jump through to obtain them)... I don't know - like I said it's been a long time since I worked in that industry, times have changed, but in doing so, the process has become much more efficient. As for mishandling of things labeled "fragile" - I think I'll plead the 5th on that one Seriously though - where I worked we treated *everything* with care, fragile or otherwise - but accidents happen and not everybody is as careful as they should be.Jenn
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JennM LFS Owner |
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#62
10/04/2007, 03:27 PM
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Good luck bureau 13. About the only thing I get from FedEx is a few TR clowns which have always come in ok. I did do an airport to airport order with a Caribbean supplier a while back to a get some of the bright red serpent stars they had. They screwed up and sent the order minus the stars. I called to complain and they sent the 5 red serpents out on FedEx but the order got lost and I never did receive the stars or credit. So it goes.
Mitch
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MWG |
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#63
10/04/2007, 08:51 PM
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Here's an ironic twist. I received an unrelated, non-living and entirely non-urgent package from Fedex yesterday. It arrived intact and on-time, and the kicker...it had the wrong address on it!
jds |
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#66
12/05/2007, 04:54 PM
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I promised a follow-up. As I half-expected, they refused to honor my claim, due to "liabilities not assumed." Corals are on the list of things they won't cover unless you get "special permission" from them. I think that means, unless you are a business that's going to do enough shipping that they feel its worth their while. Of course, I'm not complaining that the package was late, broken, dead, whatever...its just not here! I fail to see how the contents contributed to their error in this case.
There was a great deal of time and effort spent on their part to throw me off the trail, I don't feel like typing it all up, but things like telling me for six weeks that they were "investigating" it, only to then tell me they needed an invoice to prove worth (I thought they had it, and they never bothered to ask for it for the previous six weeks) and then before the shipper had a chance to fax it to them they sent him and me a note denying the claim. Weird. What did surprise me was that I could not annoy them into honoring it. I can be a real PITA on the phone, and I was supposedly talking for about 45 minutes to the head of claims (that's what she said anyway) but no luck. She had this extremely irritating debate "tactic" of questioning my assertion that the package was not delivered any time I made any sort of point about why they should honor the claim. Then she pretended to "check into" what happened, and said the driver went back out the next day to verify the address, which is a blatant lie...multiple people told me the driver was on vacation, that's why they COULDN'T have her come back out and try to find the package. I'm surprised that the "head of claims" had that much free time though...they were probably lying about that too, it was an intern or something! I will send a scathing letter to the CEO, and his secretary will probably throw it in the trash after reading the first paragraph or so. Here's the bottom line: If you're shipping to/from residential addresses, they don't care about you. You can ship your corals that way, and their success record is still probably pretty good, but don't think if they do screw it up that they'll "do you right." They won't, and they won't pretend to care either. What it means for me is, I'm out of the mail order frag business from individual reefers. Its face to face, or its mail order from a major business with a guarantee. If more people are treated this way and take this route, that won't be good for the people trying to sell frags, and it won't be especially good for the hobby. Blame FedEx. jds |
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#67
12/05/2007, 05:11 PM
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The bottom line is they still get it right a huge % of the time. I doubt we'll see any decline in folks shipping frags because of Fedex issues. If anything it will simply be the amount of time invested by individuals in completing such transactions will be seen as too much effort for the reward.
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Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? |
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#68
12/05/2007, 05:26 PM
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i worked as a courier for Fedex for 5 years.. its all about the driver... some will go out of their way.. some wont...
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Gabriel Want to see my tank? click on my Red House.. |
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#69
12/05/2007, 07:12 PM
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You where talking to one of the New Automated customer complaint computers that large companies like Fedex are now testing, they sound very real and will engage you in a circular debate forever. Cuts down on tying up real staff. The computer can listen to your voice, analyse key words from a massive list of stored complaint vocabulary and inflection tones and then choose from hundreds of canned responses and calming inflections. In the end it will not solve your problem but sort of allows the customer to get the Rants of there chests without offending real employees.
How long did you talk to this Bot? 45 minutes. LOL let me guess Her name was Cathy? Quote:
Just pulling your leg, could not help myself. |
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#70
12/05/2007, 10:11 PM
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You're not going to get perfect service from anywhere unfortunately. No matter what you do, there's always going to be that jack in the warehouse that think it's funny to kick around the boxes, and the driver who doesn't know the area (especially if you're in a rural area).
My company ships bottles (glass) of fountain pen ink across the world every day through UPS, and it's pretty rare if we ever get a report of broken bottles in a shipment. My home UPS guy even knows to leave packages inside my house door. I had a delivery of fish sent to me through Fed Ex and the guy didn't even bother to ring the door bell when he dropped it off. My fiance came home and told me it was sitting out there. Who knows how long it was there. Needless to say, in the end, it all comes down to personal preference and what the companies are willing to do as far as shipping livestock. People make mistakes, it's a part of being human.
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"I and the public know What all schoolchildren learn, Those to whom evil is done Do evil in return." “Those things that nature denied to human sight, she revealed to the eyes of the soul.” |
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#71
12/07/2007, 12:44 PM
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I don't understand why people keep saying this. Of COURSE mistakes happen. No one (on this thread) is complaining about the (alleged) honest mistake that started the whole thing. Some companies...companies that care about their customers...will go out of their way to rectify those mistakes to the satisfaction of those customers, and some won't. I would expect a company that claims to be the Cadillac of shipping companies to fall into that first category, and they do not.
jds Quote:
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#72
12/07/2007, 12:45 PM
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I did a bit of research on the internet, I believe I got the ArgueBot 5000.
jds Quote:
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#73
12/07/2007, 12:47 PM
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You're probably right. I just don't want people assuming that because its FedEx, they have ANY sort of guarantee of arrival of any kind, dead or alive...because there isn't any, unless the SHIPPER gives it to you.
jds Quote:
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#74
12/07/2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? |
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#75
12/08/2007, 10:08 PM
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It's funny 'cause a guy I know hates FedEx. He said they never even went to his house to give him his cell phone, they just stuck in his mailbox a letter saying he wasn't present to sign for it, as he was watching them. But they didn't even knock on the door!
Me? I love FedEx so far. They come earlier than UPS ( for non-livestock items). They leave it in my door (kitchen), by my instructions, if I'm not home so the fish don't die. I've had no problem whatsoever with them. |
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