Closed Loop vs. Tunze (500 gallon Display) - Page 3

46bfinGA · #51 11/26/2007, 04:32 PM

OOps triple post

I hate when that happens!

Elliott · #52 11/26/2007, 04:41 PM

I'd install ball valves just before the ends of the outflows so you can adjust flow if one is stronger than the other, etc. The OM Revolutions seems like a great product, don't have any experience with it. I don't think one return will do the job, better to split it to multiple spots and adjust flow with the ball valves, I'd really consider using Eductors to increase flow in the display and slowing flow in your sump at the same time

46bfinGA · #53 11/26/2007, 06:45 PM

Can Eductors be used on a Dart pump? I thought about the ball valve but was unsure if having the two would really make that bit of a difference then just having the one flow across the tank along the front.

i2ik · #54 11/26/2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Not to pick on you, but this assumption is not always true. Can you see the 3 tunzes in the tank below?

No, because they have all been cleverly hidden like the one below. Even the overflow is hidden from view.

http://www.hausriff.ch/4534/156972.html

There are others who make special overflow box extensions that allow the tunzes to be mounted behind a wall... with a cutout hole for the outlet, and mesh/slots for the intake... so the tunze itself is hidden in a wall. Just saying... you can hide anything in your tank with a plan.

you are right, Iwan's tank is an amazing tank! Its possible, but not always easy depending the aquascape shape you would like to get. On another note, i am thinking putting 2x6200 in my tank mount on my wavy sea. The flow is just incredible!

Elliott · #55 11/26/2007, 08:40 PM

a DART really does not have enough pressure head to run an eductor properly, however it would still be better than no eductor, having two opposing would provide a better result than one going across the tank

46bfinGA · #56 11/27/2007, 11:05 AM

Thanks Elliot Ill pass on the eductors then,I dont want to put any unneeded stress on my return pump.Ill just do two returns on each corner of the front of the tank. I guess 2-1" would be good for my returns or should I step it up to 1.5" all the way to both corners?

triggerfish1976 · #57 11/27/2007, 11:45 AM

i2ik,

I would consider not using 6200's on the wavyseas. I tried (2) of them earlier this year on a pair of 6200's and they only lasted about a month before they broke down. The amount of flow produced by the 6200's caused so much friction it basically wore out the motor in a few weeks. Their customer service is also pretty poor to say the least.
It was a great product for those few weeks so hopefully they will try and resolve this issue because I know of a few other hobbyists who experienced the exact same problem.

Elliott · #58 11/27/2007, 11:53 AM

your DART will not be overloaded, they are designed to be cranked down or restricted (as with eductors) on the output and in fact use less electricity that way. You will still get more flow using the eductors though not ideal, maybe give it a try. Your output on the DART is 1.5", I would split that to two 1" lines at the display outlets.

triggerfish1976: just curious, were you using the wavysea plus?

i2ik · #59 11/27/2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by triggerfish1976
i2ik,

I would consider not using 6200's on the wavyseas. I tried (2) of them earlier this year on a pair of 6200's and they only lasted about a month before they broke down. The amount of flow produced by the 6200's caused so much friction it basically wore out the motor in a few weeks. Their customer service is also pretty poor to say the least.
It was a great product for those few weeks so hopefully they will try and resolve this issue because I know of a few other hobbyists who experienced the exact same problem.

Thanks a lot! Have you tried with a smaller version like the Tunze 6100?

46bfinGA · #60 11/27/2007, 06:00 PM

Ill give the Eductors a shot Are they available in 1". Where is the best place to buy them?

Elliott · #61 11/27/2007, 08:17 PM

I got mine here:

http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc...nthusiasts.htm

46bfinGA · #62 11/27/2007, 10:12 PM

Thanks for the link. Do the Eductors provide a wider flow with the bell end or are they straight and to the point?

Elliott · #63 11/27/2007, 11:08 PM

eductors pull in surrounding water to multiply their output 3 -7 times, depending on the pressure head or power of the pump driving them. so, water flows towards the back of the bell from a rather large area, then flows out like the pattern of a shotgun blast, narrow at first and widening quickly, overall a mass water movement. they are used for mixing large vats of paint.

Roland Jacques · #64 11/28/2007, 08:46 AM

Heres thread on a cheeper brand of eductor. I have not used this brand yet.http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1257354

Dart pump is kind of ify IMO when using eductors. You have to look at the pump curve. Figure out how many you can run with one dart pump and still have 300-400 gph at each nozle. Personaly i would not use them with a Dart unless maybe i wanted to try it on a closed loop. You need at least 5 psi at the nozle to get them to start working good. You just have to do the math i dont think overall youll gain any flow with that pump. Maybe a little velosity.

Say you try to run 4 geting 300gph at 4 psi. Eductors Xs it by 3 = 900gph per nozle for a total of 3600 gph. what the dart do on its own 3600? i dont think it could run 3 eductors much less 4.

46bfinGA · #65 11/28/2007, 09:52 AM

Well if I used them,I would only have 2 Returns max. I was originally planning on only one return until Elliot talked me into 2. I was basically planning on having my sump return to provide flow across the top of the water. And use my Closed loop to provide flow in the rest of the tank using a Barricuda with outputs being on the top of the tank with Om Revolutions.

46bfinGA · #66 11/28/2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
Heres thread on a cheeper brand of eductor. I have not used this brand yet.http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1257354

D

I saw those when that thread first appeared.I was hoping to have a 1" Eductor since I plan on only 2 returns. What do you think? Im not opposed to scrapping the Eductor idea if you dont think it would work with a Dart.I dont want to use a bigger pump for my Sump return so that is out.

Elliott · #67 11/28/2007, 12:34 PM

I basically agree with Roland, the DART is ify, but I think it may give you a bit more flow than not using eductors, I do think two returns facing each other at the ends of the tank colliding and creating chaotic flow are better than one going across.

I started out with a DART as my sump return and a Barracuda on my cl, no eductors, both had 4 outputs each through locline. I was not happy with the flow so I added eductors to the cl and sump returns, the DART was too weak but keep in mind my sump is 50 ft away from my display, so I changed it to a Pan World 250.

46bfinGA · #68 11/28/2007, 03:41 PM

My Dart will be directly under the tank from my sump so maybe it will work fine in my situation.Ill give them a shot. Should I run 1.5" all the way to the bulkhead then reduce to 1" or should I run 1.5" then T to 2-1" pvc pipes?

Elliott · #69 11/28/2007, 05:59 PM

always run without restriction until the very end on the return line, but if you T off 1.5" to 2x1", that's not restricting, I would do that as close to the end as possible and don't forget to install ball valves on the ends to regulate flow between the two

yaktop · #70 11/28/2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by i2ik
you are right, Iwan's tank is an amazing tank! Its possible, but not always easy depending the aquascape shape you would like to get. On another note, i am thinking putting 2x6200 in my tank mount on my wavy sea. The flow is just incredible!

cleverly hidden but like all hardware these dont seem to be easily removed for cleaning. Although it maybe easier than it appears.

Lucky Strike · #71 11/29/2007, 01:37 AM

Just putting my experience out there, but id never run a cl again, ever. Its a waste of electric, and with two darts on a 180, i am waayyy unhappy. im using 300w 24/7 and only getting at best 7000 gph. hell people are getting 2000 gph on maxi mods, and if you use a tested product - the korlin at 1200 gph on 8.5w do some multiplication and thats say 6 x 8.5w = 52 watts. anyway just food for thought.

46bfinGA · #72 11/29/2007, 01:13 PM

Lucky Strike, What are you planning on using on the 15'x4'x2' ?

elvictre · #73 11/29/2007, 01:15 PM

You can hide the Tunzes well. I actually spent some time this past weekend locating my tunzes low in my tank and I have them on a angle pointing upwards. One I get more LR I will cover them so they won't be visable. I will post s pic of how I mounted them if you like.

Vic

46bfinGA · #74 11/29/2007, 06:12 PM

Post up some pics,I would like to see.

Jar*Head · #75 11/29/2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by i2ik
Thanks a lot! Have you tried with a smaller version like the Tunze 6100?

I have try the wavysea with both tunze 6200 and 6100. With the 6200 the wavyseas seem to have problem. I had it up for 2 months on the wavysea plus version. It started to make funny sound so i took it off line and hook up the 6100. Wavysea work fine with the 6100 but not the 6200.