Need some help ID'ing my new mantis

[Avalanche1201]

Hey everyone, I bought this guy a week ago and still have not been able to find a positive ID. I was wondering if you guys could help me out. Thanks

[DanInSD]

Given the white meral spots, mottled green coloration, and the chape of the telson, I would guess G. chiragra.

Dan

[Avalanche1201]

I believe I found the type on Roy's site. It's a Gonodactylaceus falcatus

[DanInSD]

Hmmm... Not sure I'd call those meral spots "yellow-green". Maybe, though...

[Timmy]

I think it is a G. viridis.
Distinguishing character:
White (flesh toned) meral spots with thin red streaks around the periphery.

[Conductive]

cool camo. he looks like special forces!

[Avalanche1201]

the pictures I saw on dr. roy's site were by far the closest I have seen. Also it was one of the only sites I could find that would help ID. I will look into the other species mentioned, but now I am hooked on mantis and really want a Peacock.

so on a side note, what do you guys think would be a minimum tank size for one of these guys?

[DanInSD]

Which guys? G. falcatus and G. viridis would be more than happy in a 10, which is the smallest I would consider doing a stand-alone saltwater tank anyways. G. chiragra would appreciate something a little bigger, and peacock really needs a 30. And the last two really need acrylic; the smaller guys would do fine in a glass tank.

Dan

[Avalanche1201]

So peacock needs a 30? Damn, they are so colorful. Maybe I can get that going next yr when I have an apt. But how come they need acrylic? Could break the glass to easily?

edit: after looking at the g. falcatus and g. viridis i think its either one of the two. Its hard to tell right now but I feel like the color pattern on the g. falcatus resembles my mantis more closely then the bright green shell o the g. viridis

I need the thing to molt so I can get a better look at it

[DanInSD]

Peacocks are large -- up to about seven inches -- and are very inefficient eaters. Nutrient export (and thus algae, diatoms, slime, high nitrates, etc) is a problem with these guys. I run a 30 with a 10 gallon reverse-light-cycle refugium and chaeto, a good skimmer (Remora), PolyFilter and PhosGuard, and feed every other day -- and I still have a run-away algae problem. Note that "standard" cleanup crews are going to get eaten. Non-standard cleanup crews, including urchins, are hit/miss. My peacock tolerated a tuxedo urchin for months before chowing down. I am trying lettuce sea slugs next.

Depending on the individual and the sex, peacocks roam around quite a bit (males more so than females). While a peacock may "survive" in a 10, well, humans can survive indefinitely in jail cells. It's an over-used but IMO reasonable analogy. If you want to keep your critter happy, give it more room.

I think for it's size, the "smaller" spearer P. ciliata requires the most room "ideally" than any other mantis. It really needs a 20, yet gets only like 4" long.

As for the acrylic, yes, it's about the glass. A larger peacock is *able* to break thinner glass. They often will do this when burrowing. You can get away with putting a layer of acrylic on the bottom of a glass tank, and avoid really thin tanks. I'd try for 1/4" (5-6mm) glass, if you want a glass tank.

Dan

[Avalanche1201]

yea I like glass tanks b/c they scratch less. I have heard the usually break the glass when burrowing because they get to the bottom and smash it. I would put some acrylic down and would make sure I got at least 1/4" glass when I got a tank for it.

I never thought of being an inefficient eater though and I realize a CUC is almost non existent w/ these guys. I would not keep one in a 10 gal, I would go 20 min when I finally get one. I like the smashers much more then spearer's b/c...well, I like to see them smash stuff.

Any good sites u can suggest so I can read up on peacocks more? I know they get very large and are very powerful so I want to make sure I know everything I need to about them before I set up the tank


thanks for all the help so far Dan.

[DanInSD]

This is the best site I've found WRT mantis. Setting up a tank for a peacock has been covered a lot (try searches). If you have considerable saltwater experience, just aim for an "ideal soft coral" tank:
- Live rock at about 1 lb per gallon
- A deep sand bed (I like about 4", usually about 2 lb/gallon)
- Moderate light
- Moderate flow
- Heavy filtration (chemical and physical; skimmer; fuge if you can)

Special caveats for peacocks:
- Throw in a fair amount of live rock rubble
- Provide a PVC tube in the sand bed (Dr. Roy suggested "electrical elbows" -- these are smooth 90 degree bends in gray PVC that can be cut to fit) : large enough that the mantis can turn around (so 2.5" or so)
- Take your time cycling the tank -- you want high water quality

Dan

[DanInSD]

My setup (right after I set up the new tank): http://home.san.rr.com/dkgweb/images...ank2_small.jpg

The fuge is on the right. The mantis tube is in front. You can see my mantis existing from the right side of the tube.

Now it sort of looks like a jungle with all of the algae...
Dan

[Avalanche1201]

yea I cant search on here for some reason. It always tells me its busy or something like that

so the PVC elbow, bury that in the sand for it to be his home? he wouldn't make it out of rock or anything like that?

and do u have a tank thread I can check out?

[Avalanche1201]

and the fuge...looks like a siphon down pump return? what size tank and fuge is that?

[Pea-brain]

to search RC- go to google.com
Type site:reefcentral.com
[space] [search term(s)]

Dan

[Avalanche1201]

thanks, Ill have to remember that

[DanInSD]

Yes, the PVC is for a "burrow". Peacocks generally make a home in substrate or a rock cavity; or construct such out of rubble. The problem is that they need a nice dark place to avoid getting shell disease which is fatal. The easiest way is to provide a gray or black tube. This is particularly important if you intend to have bright lights over tank (like I do here -- about 150 W of HO T5).

The tank is a "30 short" -- 30 gallon, 36" wide. The sump/fuge is 10 gallon, with about six gallons of actual water. There's a (very reclusive) G. smithii in the chunk of live rock you see in there.

Yes, it is flow-down, pump up. Works better than the other way around The fuge has a mixed mud/sand bottom. In retrospect I should have gone "pure sand". I think the mud is contributing mightily to my algae problems.

Dan

[Avalanche1201]

haha, yea I guess pump down flow up wouldn't work to well would it.

I have heard of the shell disease but have not really got this into mantis' before I saw one, then got one. I mean, I always knew I wanted one, and have wanted a peacock b/c they are huge and awesome, the g. smithii are just as nice looking to

Is there a way to help w/ the shell disease? And the PVC tubing is just easier for the mantis instead of creating his own home? Or would there be a chance he would do that as well

also if u have a tank thread I'd love to see it

[DanInSD]

I don't have a "tank thread" although there are many here if you poke around. Shell disease is not well understood (heck, it's not even a little understood). It's not even known if it is, for instance, bacterial, viral, or fungal, I believe. Some things that are known:

- It affects large stomatopods that don't molt often
- It manifests as thin, brown spots on the body of the mantis
- If the spots wear through on the shell it is usually fatal
- Shell disease correlates strongly with light and nitrate exposure
- If a stomatopod has a mild case, you can put it in a dark environment with "perfect" water, feed it a lot, and hope it "molts the problem away"

So a dark "provided" burrow is usually the best way to minimize the risks, at least from light. It's also why you need excellent water quality.

Dan

[Avalanche1201]

hmm, very interesting.

So if I do go the peacock route...which I really want to later, if not G. smithii...I think the first major thing I will have to invest in is a Skimmer.

Thanks for all the help Dan...time to start searchen for tank threads