Need help w SPS - lost all color & low grwth

[Nickbev]

Please help this newbee to SPS !!!

I am currently trying to diagnose my tank. All fish, 11 of them are healthy, but my corals are growing extremely slowly. The LPS corals like my frogspawn are never fully expanded, and the SPS, I have only 5 currently - mostly acros all relatively new except 1 is a year old, are not browned out just really light in color. They are still living but some have experienced receeding up from the base, looking like they were dying but then they survived and are just growing really slowly. Here's my system spec:

75 G - mixed reef
20 G refugium w Chaetomorpha (no longer growing quickly like it used to)
I've got a large skimmer the EV-120 Aqua C
Circulation is from a 1100gph Seio super flow, a Rio approx 600gph and a large return pump, MagDrive 1200gph going to 2 3/4" nozzles
Water parameters are all normal -
salinity: 1.025 - 1.026
temp: 80 - 81 (kept down using a minifridge w water running through it in airline tubing)
nitrite, nitrate, ammonia all zero
phosphate - none detected

Ca & Alk - both within the normal range for a reef as the LFS told me - I was used to testing these constantly keeping alk around 9 - 10 and Ca between 400 -450, but just found out my Ca test was way off - it was reading 350 when the level of CA was between 450 - 500. I had been putting way too much B-Ionic trying to keep this metric up for the last few months, i was as of a few weeks ago adding 100ml per day of each part. I also noticed the calcium precipitate out of the water and cover the walls of my sump. So I tested the Ca reference that came with the kit and discovered the problem with the kit. I have for the last 2 weeks been dosing a "normal" amount of the mix 30ml of each per day until I buy a new Salifert Ca test kit (this was recommended to me). I am not sure what the consequences of this overdosing on the tank were, although I did not lose any corals or fish during that time.

My lighting is a Tek T5 hood w 6 X 54 watt bulbs (used the bulb selection recommended by GrimReefer and they look fantastic) which I run the blues 12 hours and all lights for 10hrs. The refugium is on the reverse light cycle w 110 total watts of 10K light power compacts.

My feeding previously consisted of approx 3/4 of a block of frozen food (usually mysis shrimp) for the fish fed once per day, and Nothing for the corals.

After speaking with the LFS about the issue they recommended feeding the corals, as my signs of low grwth and light coloration, were effects of coral starvation. I have been doing this now for approx 1 week (feeding a combo of Mark Wiess's reef bugs about 1/8 tsp and 1/8 tsp of frozed cyclopeeze, each night right before lights out.)

As far as water changes I do them infrequently, but at least once a month for 20 - 25% of water volume. About a month ago , frustrated w the coral coloration I did approx 50% water change 35 gallons and noticed no changes in coral color or polyp extension on LPS.

A few other recent changes to try to fix my "problems" I bought a new RO/DI - a month ago - previous TDS coming out of my old system was like 40 and w the new system is only 7 TDS. I also use activated carbon and rowaphos, replaced every 1 - 2 months.

I've also changed the bulbs on my tank a month ago - all 6 new bulbs , the old ones were approx 18 months old, and I did not notice any beneficial changes from this except that the bulbs make the tank look better.

I've also recently added 3 barlett anthias, which has increased my feeding regiment slightly - by adding in a mid day feeding of pellets, not too much though, from an outomatic feeder in addition to the feeding described above. So the total daily feeding is 2X for the fish and once primarily for the corals , although the fish eat the coral rations as well.

Hope you're still with me through this long posting, just trying to add all pertinent information, I will try to attach a photo of the tank as well

Please let me know what you think the issue(s) may be here, I was hoping that underfeeding was the issue as this is the easiest to fix LOL , but I've been feeding the corals for over a week now with no noticable changes. I realize that this is a short period of time though. I was also considering adding more flow - maybe buying the new Ecotech Vortech w wavemaker.

[Amphiprion]

You are doing everything I would try. In any case, it is going to take longer than a week to notice any real results. One thing I do notice (that you have also), is your flow is somewhat lacking. Get that taken care of and some problems *may* clear up, though it isn't a bandage for any situation. 7 TDS out of your unit still isn't all that good. You want to shoot for 0.

[mrme]

Maybe you need new light bulbs ?
how old are they ?

[Nickbev]

Lights are brand new.... any other ideas anyone???????

[plyle02]

What is your mag at? Also, seems to be a correlation between t5's low nutrients and pale colors, there is a t5 thread going on right now on this forum. If you have no detectable nitrates and phosphates, then I would definitely add more fish and feed a bit heavy. Sounds like low nutrients to me.....

[mysterybox]

IMO, it's not a bad idea to use an online testing company every now & then to verify your results, especially since you are a little unsure. It cost about 20 to 25 bucks for like 12 tests. At least you might know where you do stand with water quality. Obviously, flow is a major issue, too.

[mxett]

too soon to tell yet. Keep feeding the corals for a few months and wait and see. Sometimes colouration can take 6 months or so to return

[Shooter7]

Nutrients may be one thing, but I have to side also with the person who mentioned the 7 TDS out of the RO/DI. Once I start getting 1 - 2 out of my RO/DI, it's time to change the DI. It should be reading zero. If you're getting more than that, then you're putting stuff in your tank you don't want. My vote would be excess phosphates from the RO/DI and the frozen block of food per day, especially if you're not thawing/straining it before you put it in. I have found in reading around here that undetectable phosphates on these tests we get isn't really that reliable, that there are phosphates that aren't picked up on those tests. Just IMO.

[mysterybox]

Originally posted by Shooter7
Nutrients may be one thing, but I have to side also with the person who mentioned the 7 TDS out of the RO/DI. Once I start getting 1 - 2 out of my RO/DI, it's time to change the DI. It should be reading zero. If you're getting more than that, then you're putting stuff in your tank you don't want. My vote would be excess phosphates from the RO/DI and the frozen block of food per day, especially if you're not thawing/straining it before you put it in. I have found in reading around here that undetectable phosphates on these tests we get isn't really that reliable, that there are phosphates that aren't picked up on those tests. Just IMO.

I agree.

[Racenrich]

A TDS of 7 isnt bad at all! Straight RO/DI is around 0-2....from the tap at home its around 145+.....My NEW unit was around 7-9 out of the box....its crept up to 18 within the last year....

IMO....kick up the flow...another seio 1100 wont hurt!
The bulbs will help, the corals take time to adjust to that....if the corals are fading, they arent use to the light yet...kick it down a couple hrs a day for a week or two....

11 fish in a 75g tank? My 120g (185g total vol) has 7 fish....

Things take time to adjust, dont expect it to happen overnight...
HTH and good luck.

RK

[Shooter7]

7 isn't bad? Everything I've ever seen said RO/DI should be coming out at zero, which mine does. Tap going in is over 850 usually. Mine starts hitting 1 - 2, time to change it out.

[JER-Z]

Originally posted by Racenrich
A TDS of 7 isnt bad at all! Straight RO/DI is around 0-2....from the tap at home its around 145+.....My NEW unit was around 7-9 out of the box....its crept up to 18 within the last year....

I would have sent it back, a new RO/DI should not be giving you 7-9 TDS out of the box...

as soon as my TDS shows anything above 0 i replace DI resin

[Racenrich]

Honestly it's not affecting my tank.......


Does the DI Resin bring the TDS down? i thought it was the MAIN TFC membrane?

I'll have to do some research on this....thanks for the input.

[JER-Z]

nice tank, yes the DI resin catches whatever the membrane and prefilters do not catch...You can use DI only and get 0 TDS water.

[Serioussnaps]

Another thing is people will knock T5's and particularly the tek, but if you keep it in good working order(reflectors clean and bulbs changed out) they can put out a alot of light for a 20" deep tank.

I suspect a combination of phosphates and photoinhibition is also a possiblity here. TDS being high shows that is one possible P04 input. Also, mysis are phosphate rich...very phosphate rich. You should be rinsing them off.

Are you running GFO?

Cut down on your daylight photoperiod to about 8 hours and possibly even less later depending on how it goes. I suspect you are photoinhibiting some of your corals. This along with phosphates and low calcium make for a perfect situation to severely retard calcification. My other advice is to rinse the mysis well and try some other foods possibly less feeding more times perday and feed the corals some more. Also, consider using GFO if you are not already. Your flow is a bit suspect on a side note and on a final note, you need to make sure your CA/ALK are in range and balanced and be more diligent in doing so.

[Ewan]

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
Another thing is people will knock T5's and particularly the tek, but if you keep it in good working order(reflectors clean and bulbs changed out) they can put out a alot of light for a 20" deep tank.

I suspect a combination of phosphates and photoinhibition is also a possiblity here. TDS being high shows that is one possible P04 input. Also, mysis are phosphate rich...very phosphate rich. You should be rinsing them off.

Are you running GFO?

Cut down on your daylight photoperiod to about 8 hours and possibly even less later depending on how it goes. I suspect you are photoinhibiting some of your corals. This along with phosphates and low calcium make for a perfect situation to severely retard calcification. My other advice is to rinse the mysis well and try some other foods possibly less feeding more times perday and feed the corals some more. Also, consider using GFO if you are not already. Your flow is a bit suspect on a side note and on a final note, you need to make sure your CA/ALK are in range and balanced and be more diligent in doing so.

Well said Serioussnaps. This is all excellent advice.

I would start addressing the items in the above post one-by one. Do you do waterchanges periodically?

-E.

[cutegecko3]

I would think the problem is alk. from the syptoms you described and the amount of percipitates you had.

[aurora]

Check your Magnesium...I had a problem with precipitations in the pumps and the walls of my sump a few years back when I first started my SPS tank and finally figured out that my tank was running a chronically low Mag at about 900. If you don't have a kit, you can take your water to a good LFS and ask them to check it for you. Same way with your other parameters if you think the kits are not accurate.

[mysterybox]

stop feeding your SPS! (do they need food, yes! but only in nutrient starved tanks) Just because your Nitrates & Phosphates aren't detected, doesn't mean that you don't have excessive levels. It sounds like you have too much phosphates & Nitrates & not enough flow.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

[dukes707]

well looks to me like you got a couple thing going on. phosphate , especially organic phosphate may be creeping in your tank without you knowing it. most common test kits dont test for it, only inorganic phosphate. your tds, although still not terribly high should be kept around 2-0 to prevent any unwanted particles from entering your water column. just change the resin, no biggie.
you stated you just changed your light about a week ago aftr about 18 months. can you imagine how blinding that is to your corals?! after many months of life at dawn, the all of a sudden are living at high noon. feel me? the light intensity all of a sudden dramatically increased. just screen it off, or cut down on your photoperiod for a while, and acclimate them to your light slowly over a week or two.
if you keep all your levels in check and stable then i am sure things will turn around for you. and keep up on you h2o changes, as best you can. replacing those trace/essential elements is often overlooked by most reefers. good lck bro. HTH

[Nickbev]

Thanks guys for all the help. Here's what I'm reading from the accumulated advice ...

1. Check all parameters - possibly online to get most accurate (especially phosphate levels and magnesium)

2. Achieve better consistency with the Ca & Alk dosing / levels

3. I'm not sure what "GFO" is but I'm assuming it is phosphate remover which I will add some more of - I have run it before in small doses.

4. Increase water flow - buying a Vortech, very expensive but looks awesome and it's my birthday lol - I thought originally that the approx 35X flow (after accounting for head loss) would be sufficient, but looking at some of your set-ups I guess people are running much more than that now.

5. Cutting down the light from approx 10 hrs to 8hrs -

6. Continue my feeding regiment - not feeding corals though - and rinsing off the mysis

7. Test my RO/DI again for TDS and try to achieve a lower reading possibly changing my DI resin

Thanks again all - with all these ideas something should color up my corals !!!!!

[aquavista99]

Why cut down the light? In nature, the corals are exposed to light for much longer periods of time (from dusk until dawn). I keep my 400 watt halides on for 10.5 hrs per day.

[Nickbev]

Several people have told me that too much light can cause photoinhibition - which would "lighten" the color of the corals, my 6 X 54 watt T5s are only about 3" off the top of the tank putting them within about 8 - 10" of some of the corals - may be a little too much running them at full power for 10 hours, actinics for 12 ..... I guess you disagree .... unless I had one of those lux readers it would be hard to have a more definite answer on this???

[barjam]

T5s, pale color threads come up at least once or twice a week it seems. I have yet to see a MH thread with "pale colors". Don't nutrient issues brown out corals not make them white?

[roblack]

Looks like there are a bunch of different opinions of what your problem(s) is/are. If your corals are healthy, be careful about changing too much too quick. I recommend you do gradual changes and give your corals some time to color up. It can take a while.