Found Fish in Sump Filter and Serpent Star Question

aquadventure · #1 10/17/2007, 09:14 AM

I have a 90 gallon tank now for just over a month and on Sunday added 4 clownfish (small) and 2 serpent stars. For the last 2 days when I check the tank I am down a fish. The pump moves 1300 gallons per hour and sometimes the fish act like they are struggling against the current. We found 1 fish in the filter in the sump. What's wrong? We also found 1 cleaner shrimp in the overflow this morning but were able to get him back into the tank safely. Also 1 of the serpent stars has like 3 or 4 arms that seem to have broken off yesterday. Does this mean anything to worry about.
Thanks
90 gallon tank: with 2 clownfish, 2 serpent starts 2 cleaner shrimp, 10 blue legged, hermit crabs and so far 55 pounds of live rock.

jsr · #2 10/17/2007, 09:21 AM

[welcome]

Is the pump your return pump of a powerhead in the tank? If it's a return pump, I would install a ball valve on the return line to slow the return. What type of pump is it and how much head from your sump to the tank?

papagimp · #3 10/17/2007, 09:23 AM

Well, the starfish isn't going to just drop his arms off, at least i don't think they do. May have something pulling his legs off. Got some large hermits in there? Shrimp pickin' at him or anything? As for the fish, probably not too much flow, I know alot of people who have more than that and their fish have no trouble. As for the fish, you have 4 small clownfish, if they are all unsexually mature clowns, odds are their going to squabble amoung themselves so that one can come out the winner and change into a female clown, this fighting/arguing can stress em out al ittle and one may have been chased to close to the overflow. I've seen it before. But then it could just be dumb luck. May wanna try some eggcrate over the overflow opening to keep larger critters out of there.

der_wille_zur_macht · #4 10/17/2007, 09:40 AM

I've had clumsy serpent/brittle stars that lost legs by snagging them on rockwork - I saw it happen so I know it wasn't a predator. That said, there's a good chance someone is trying to eat him. It's not a big deal unless it keeps happening, as they'll grow the legs back in no time.

As far as the clowns - they tend to be extremely heavy sleepers, and hence often get sucked into overflows at night. This is a pretty common occurance and nothing to worry about, though it is a pain to scoop them back out of the sump every few days. To combat it, you can try eggcrate like papagimp suggested, but plastic mesh (gutter guard from the local home improvement store) tends to work better. It's finer than eggcrate and hence will have a better chance at stopping smaller livestock from entering the overflow.

If you do get a critter in the overflow who refuses to come out or get sucked into the sump, just pull the standpipe out of the bulkhead and the entire overflow box will drain down into the sump. Then you can net the critter down there where there's more room.

Personally, I wouldn't change the flow to accommodate your clown's sleeping habits. The reef they came from likely had far, far, far more water movement than your tank does.

And another note - get two of those clowns out of there. As they mature, the dominant pair will kill off the two remaining juvies. Might not happen for 6 or 8 months, but better to get them out now IMHO.

PhishGirl · #5 10/17/2007, 09:59 AM

Yeah - too many clowns are bad news. I've never been able to keep more than one alive in a tank for more than a week. One of them always destroys the others in a show of dominance.

GoingPostal · #6 10/17/2007, 10:49 AM

The starfish losing arms that quickly is acclimation shock, they need a slow acclimation to the tank water and your salinity needs to be 1.024-10.26, anything lower is extremely stressful on their systems. It probably won't survive, keep an eye on the other one.

aquadventure · #7 10/17/2007, 01:18 PM

I will definitely do the mesh over the overflow. I took a water sample to LFS and 0 nitrates and nitrates, ph 8.2, and salinity within normal limits. The post about the starfish stress with acclimation must have been correct because he didn't make it. The other one looks good. I just have the 2 clownfish left and I guess I will let them continue to fight the current. They are both juvenilles. The LFS says to add some bigger one but won't they pick on the small ones?

der_wille_zur_macht · #8 10/17/2007, 01:28 PM

Quit that LFS. They are giving you poor advice. Two clowns max (same species and hopefully juvies) unless you have a VERY large tank and/or several well defined homes for each pair.

aquadventure · #9 10/17/2007, 03:23 PM

Thanks for the information. Hopefully these 2 survive and I won't add any more clownfish.

RyanBrucks · #10 10/17/2007, 04:38 PM

good to know.

so if you get 2 juvenille clowns, does one still turn into a female? I'm new to the knowledge that they can change sex like that.

And I am glad to hear you will be putting gutterguard over your overflow. I will by getting a 72" long toothless oveflow, and will probably be using the very same material. I haven't decided exactly how to fasten it to the tank, though. I'm thinking it will just stick up 2-3" above the overflow, with some kind of fastener that's glued to the inside of the overflow, making the gutterguard piece removable for cleaning.

coast2coast7390 · #11 10/17/2007, 06:59 PM

4 CLOWNS in one tank?!?

coast2coast7390 · #12 10/17/2007, 07:04 PM

i had this happen to my yellow coris wrasse it jumped hit some cords
wiggled its way through 5 gallons of bioballs
into the water in the sump...and lived in there till i had to move the tank

aquadventure · #13 10/25/2007, 06:58 AM

I have heard that you can have 2 sets of paired clownfish in one tank. But I only have 2 now

Criminal#58369 · #14 10/25/2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RyanBrucks
good to know.

so if you get 2 juvenille clowns, does one still turn into a female? I'm new to the knowledge that they can change sex like that.

And I am glad to hear you will be putting gutterguard over your overflow. I will by getting a 72" long toothless oveflow, and will probably be using the very same material. I haven't decided exactly how to fasten it to the tank, though. I'm thinking it will just stick up 2-3" above the overflow, with some kind of fastener that's glued to the inside of the overflow, making the gutterguard piece removable for cleaning.

The largest of the pair will become the female, the small one the male. I would not recommend 4 clownfish in a tank unless its a quite large tank.

Also what is your tanks parameters and how long did you aclimate them for? Inverts require more aclimation time than fish.

aquadventure · #15 10/25/2007, 04:10 PM

It turns out that the stars were attacked and ultimated died from damage done by a crab in my tank. See my pix gallery. I gave gim to the owner of a LFS. At the LFS the owner said he gutted another hemit crab there at the store. I thought he was a blue legged when I bought him but he wasn't. The tank is doing much better without him.

Jescd · #16 10/25/2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
I've had clumsy serpent/brittle stars that lost legs by snagging them on rockwork - I saw it happen so I know it wasn't a predator. That said, there's a good chance someone is trying to eat him. It's not a big deal unless it keeps happening, as they'll grow the legs back in no time.

As far as the clowns - they tend to be extremely heavy sleepers, and hence often get sucked into overflows at night. This is a pretty common occurance and nothing to worry about, though it is a pain to scoop them back out of the sump every few days. To combat it, you can try eggcrate like papagimp suggested, but plastic mesh (gutter guard from the local home improvement store) tends to work better. It's finer than eggcrate and hence will have a better chance at stopping smaller livestock from entering the overflow.

If you do get a critter in the overflow who refuses to come out or get sucked into the sump, just pull the standpipe out of the bulkhead and the entire overflow box will drain down into the sump. Then you can net the critter down there where there's more room.

Personally, I wouldn't change the flow to accommodate your clown's sleeping habits. The reef they came from likely had far, far, far more water movement than your tank does.

And another note - get two of those clowns out of there. As they mature, the dominant pair will kill off the two remaining juvies. Might not happen for 6 or 8 months, but better to get them out now IMHO.

lol - "heavy sleepers"... I did not know that! I find that quite funny!!!

cpl40475 · #17 10/25/2007, 07:28 PM

I thought i had lost a clarlii clown (dead) he was laying on a small valley in one of my rocks. Reached into get him with a set of tongs and he did the oceanreef500 around my tank(75gallon) i was lmao at him but felt bad after i did it. Scared the poor lil feller bad.Ithink they sleep harder than me lol
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