Tank of the Month - October 2007

[pwhitby]

Originally posted by SCIFI_3D_zoo
I noticed in a few places.. you have monti plates that are actually hanging over other corals (lps, softies)... even some other sps's. Wouldn't this cause a problem with light reaching anything below? In some of your photos some areas actually do look like they are in big shadows from your monti's.

Yes they are in shadow, the plates grow so much that they do that, and ultimately the coral beneath dies....unless they are zoos or other low light requiring corals.

P.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

I'm SOLD. Cha-ching. Yea.. I was reading about all the other minerals that are dissolved. Still gotta add IODINE though right? You do that right. I think you said you didn't add any additives.. but you do have clams.

I was looking at Drs.FS website and the Ca+ reactor setup they have. They have a Pinpoint PH controller.. but it needs a 9V battery. I assume that's just in case power goes out it remembers your settings.... but no, it says it is powered by the 9V. I didn't read that your Milwaukee used a battery though. I'm trying to investigate everything here. When I read that my first thought was.. great, another thing that I have to check. But what if power does go out. Hopefully the thing will stay off until you reset it. Do you think an ORP feature is not necessary?

Originally posted by pwhitby
If a Ca reactor is set up corectly there should be no problems. It is essential that the pH is monitored in the reactor or of the effluent and that the flow is slow enough that it maintains Alk and Ca levels, not increases them.

It is all the other stuff that is in the media that helps the corals grow, not just Ca and Alk, but also Magnesium for example

I wouldnt run and SPS tank with out a Ca Reactor

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Originally posted by pwhitby
i really dont spend that much time. Maybe 10 mins to feed each day. Thats it.

That's answers one of my other questions about feeding. So you feed everyday... pellets. And once a week some frozen mix. Do you use a method like how much they can eat in 10 min. to gauge how much food to add? When I first read about your pellets I thought... great.. something that can be automated. But then I saw some pics from an old thread of yours... Pellet food mix by pwhitby ] . THe Link has some crazy graphics issues for me but if you go about 3/4 the way down people can see your pics of the food. If it was dry one could possibly use an automatic feeder. You said you added juices to it?? Juice from the crushed garlic jar??

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions. Hopefully they're good and people will find your answers as useful as I am. Damn, I'm gonna have a hard time going to sleep tonight. I do a lot of work on my website SCIFI 3D and one thing I noticed there is the really good 3D CGI work done by some of the experts tends to motivate an army of others. I think people like you do the same thing here. I feel really motivated now to take my tank to another level. Yours is truly INSPIRATIONAL.

[nrehman]

Excellent tank. Kudos.

[pwhitby]

AS I said, I dont any additives....so no iodine.

As for feeding, I throw a few spoons of pellets in. Thats about 30 seconds work. When i defrost my home blend food that takes about 10 mins.

I then just pour that in.

I dont think the pellets would work well in an automated feeder. Im not sure why you would want to do that anyways. Feeding time is an ideal time to observe your fish and how they look/behave. Im not a big fan of automation. The more something is automated the less time you take looking and doing. The net result is that something can be very wrong for a long time and by the time you realise....its just too late.

If you are getting a Ca Reactor, Geo make a very nice unit. I like mine, but its pretty large. The 618 or 624 models are very nice. I use the milwaukee SM122 controller. Again, a really nice unit and relatively inexpensive.

Regards,

Paul.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Hmm... I thought clams needed it on a regular basis and there was no other source for it in the tank. I thought shrimp needed it too for molting... stuff like that.

Ah... good point. That's one of the first things I notice when feeding... if they're actually eating, see how they are interacting with other fish, get a good look at them for ich, etc. I'm just always thinking about making things easy for me b/c of my time constraints. I've been reefing for about... 3 years. I guess what I need to do is take it to the next level. Reinvigorate my interest. I'm really busy.. so I've had diff. people come in and help me take care of it. As long as they get paid I don't think they care that much what it looks like. I noticed the other day my Ca+ is like 500 or more. So I just gotta start taking over more of this, make my own water, etc. I just can't trust anybody else. And I'm getting tired of never seeing anything grow other than some softies, and an LPS or two. Get sick of mushrooms after awhile. And SPS's are so kool looking. Stunning colors.

I just got a new light fixture and it's a couple HQI's and Actinics. I don't plan on changing that again for a long time so hopefully it'll look as good as your tank.

Only other thing I wanted to do was get a drilled tank... but I noticed a lot of the top tanks use overflow boxes. I need to redesign everything like you did. I'm gonna try to drill my rocks to pvs like you. I just don't want a bunch of tubes, overflow boxes, powerheads all over. And with a drilled tank you'll have that big box inside the tank. And this guy that wants to help says we should get about 6 powerheads... for a 90 gal. I'm not sure I want or need all of that. But I need to get some circulation all the way around to eliminate dead spots. He talked about running pvc to the back of the rocks too. Sorta like you did but you drilled holes back there.

What do you think about ORP on a PH controller?

[pwhitby]

A pH controller is essential for a Ca Reactor to work well....but I dont monitor the tank pH.

I dont have an orp controller, nor do I measure ORP.
P.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Man, maybe I'm reading too much into it but now I'm getting intimidated again. American Marine Inc. has a nice info page on setup. SETUP . They go on about checking the pH meter once a month, calibrating it, taking everything apart and cleaning it, etc. And how if any little thing goes wrong you'll basically kill it all. But you make it sound so easy. Like you set it up and forget about it... at least until you need media (?), probe change (18 months), maybe some other stuff.

Also... I was reading about where the pH probe goes. If you have some older style reactor I guess it may not have a probe port. Then you need a small holding area in your sump for the effluent exiting the reactor and the probe. I wouldn't buy a reactor without it. But it says "As this collection cup fills, it will overflow into sump where it should be properly aerated to drive off the CO2 and return the pH back to normal seawater levels before it enters the aquarium. An airstone or aerating powerhead in the sump area can be beneficial." You don't aerate into a separate sump area or use airstones do you??

Another question... I thought I saw a dual-chamber once that said one of the advantages of that is to make sure no excess C02 escapes into the system too.

What type of media do you use?

I noticed the Pinpoint controller talks about how not many others have the ability to control pH up and down. Their model can increase pH too by using a regular air pump. Then they later talk about installing an aerating pump in your sump to drive out CO2. Sounds scarey dumping this from the reactor right into the sump if the pH isn't right. Maybe it's not that big of a deal b/c it's working on drops of effluent into your sump.

[funlap]

Paul congratulations on the honors......I am a fan of your reef and one day hope to have a tank as visually pleasing as yours. I hope you enjoy it also. Take it easy

[balmiesgirl]

BEAUTIFUL!!!!! Yours is the tank I aspire to have...someday.

[pwhitby]

Funlap/Balmies girl....thankyou!

P.


Scifi.--

yes you are reading way too much into it.

First off. Once you get the pH probe, ensure it is calibarted...takes a minute at most.

Read the tank Ca and Alk with a good kit.....and use supplements to get it just below the optimal levels.

Set the reactor up, with the probe in the reactor chamber (if its built that way) or in a little (50ml) cup hanging inside your refugium area. ---I like the refugium as a return as plants ned C02 to grow and you will promote health of them in the refuge.

Set the drip rate of the reactor to reasonably slow and measure the volume of the effluent in an hour to figure the rate. I would say 1litre/hr is agood start.

Set the pH controller to activate the CO2 at pH lower than 6.6.
Set the needle valve on the regulator to a steady bubble and watch the pH meter. Ideally it needs to come down very slowly.

let it run.

measure the effluent once its been running for a few hrs at pH 6.6 to ensure its rich in Ca and Alk.

if you want, measure the tank pH as well.

-----now....the reason you want the pH to drop slowly is this...you want it to bubble CO2 almost constantly. The reason for that is if the solenoid ever sticks open, its going to work just the same as if the solenoid was working. If you send blasts of co2 into the reactor to rapidly bring pH down and the solenoid sticks on, then the pH will drop drastically and the tank may be affected.

When running well the CO2 should be on almost constantly.

--- As for aerating, have it drip in an area with decent flow, plus the plants will suck up any excess CO2, in doing so they will grow more rapidly.

Also, if the effluent cup is well out of the water it will lead to aeration as the effluent flows over the outer edge of it.
Also a small fan to blow any excess CO2 from over the top of the water helps.

After a week, measure the tank Ca and Alk. if theey have fallen, increase the flow (this may require adjusting the bubble rate as well). if they have risen, decrease the flow. If its the same, great.

Adjust Ca and Alk to where you want them to be with supplements.

Leave it to run.

and its as simple as that.

Paul.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

So all the pH controller is doing is checking the right pH in the reactor. And nothing is really checking the actual Ca+ levels. To get the right Ca+ levels you have to "manually" mess with the CO2 bubbles, the water levels entering the reactor, and the water leaving the reactor. And check and clean all the equipment all the time. And... you still have to check your Ca+ levels manually to know what is actually going on. And of course all of this affects your pH, Alkalinity. With a tank setup like yours you probably have it setup to use a certain amount of Ca+ and don't mess with it much.

But with somebody else you're probably constantly altering everything... and checking the results... all manually. The Ca+ usage in a tanks is constantly changing. AND if your tank is fully grown out then your SPS's may not need as much Ca+. Maybe your not a good example but a tank can have flucuating needs.

I was thinking.. what if your SPS's are fully grown out? Maybe you can work with lower Ca+ levels to just maintain their size and stop or at least slow down growth?? Eventually that's a problem unless you plan on fragging I guess. I'd like to share stuff with people if I had it but I'd like to control growth too.

So it all sounds very manual to me. I still don't understand why this is so much better than just manually adding Ca+. You still do the same stuff. Add it a little at a time, ck. Ca+ levels, get it down to a routine of how much you need, but still ck. it b/c your needs can change. At least you don't have a bunch of equipment to worry about too. The only thing I can think of is... with a Reactor you can maintain a specific level easier?... I thought it maintained the pH in your tank but that's not true... maybe this method does a better job of adding other trace elements?

I'm just trying to pick your brain on the actual diff. between this and doing it the old fashion way. Maybe it's just b/c you have such a large tank you really have to use a reactor to make it simple.

[pwhitby]

I think you are missing the point.

it isnt about messing around and sps are never fully grown out. They dont reach a size and stop.

Ca demand may change....from month to month, but I doubt it very much.

as for adding supplements vs a Reactor.... well. Thats your choice. I ran a reactor on a 225g after adding supplements for years. the results were very good.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

I was reading manufacturer instructions. But that's not always real-world I understand. So the question then is.. how often do you calibrate, clean parts, replace probes??

Ah... good idea to use the refugium as a return b/c of CO2. I was thinking about getting one of these anyway... but that's a lot of other questions I'll figure out myself. My main problem is I have to squeeze it all under a stand. I know there are hang-on refugiums too.

I read somewhere they were saying their controller will save you CO2 by turning it on only when you need it. But you're saying this is NOT a good idea.

Originally posted by pwhitby
yes you are reading way too much into it.

First off. Once you get the pH probe, ensure it is calibarted...takes a minute at most.

Read the tank Ca and Alk with a good kit.....and use supplements to get it just below the optimal levels.

Set the reactor up, with the probe in the reactor chamber (if its built that way) or in a little (50ml) cup hanging inside your refugium area. ---I like the refugium as a return as plants ned C02 to grow and you will promote health of them in the refuge.

Set the drip rate of the reactor to reasonably slow and measure the volume of the effluent in an hour to figure the rate. I would say 1litre/hr is agood start.

Set the pH controller to activate the CO2 at pH lower than 6.6.
Set the needle valve on the regulator to a steady bubble and watch the pH meter. Ideally it needs to come down very slowly.

let it run.

measure the effluent once its been running for a few hrs at pH 6.6 to ensure its rich in Ca and Alk.

if you want, measure the tank pH as well.

-----now....the reason you want the pH to drop slowly is this...you want it to bubble CO2 almost constantly. The reason for that is if the solenoid ever sticks open, its going to work just the same as if the solenoid was working. If you send blasts of co2 into the reactor to rapidly bring pH down and the solenoid sticks on, then the pH will drop drastically and the tank may be affected.

When running well the CO2 should be on almost constantly.

--- As for aerating, have it drip in an area with decent flow, plus the plants will suck up any excess CO2, in doing so they will grow more rapidly.

Also, if the effluent cup is well out of the water it will lead to aeration as the effluent flows over the outer edge of it.
Also a small fan to blow any excess CO2 from over the top of the water helps.

After a week, measure the tank Ca and Alk. if theey have fallen, increase the flow (this may require adjusting the bubble rate as well). if they have risen, decrease the flow. If its the same, great.

Adjust Ca and Alk to where you want them to be with supplements.

Leave it to run.

and its as simple as that.

Paul. [/B]

[pwhitby]

I read somewhere they were saying their controller will save you CO2 by turning it on only when you need it. But you're saying this is NOT a good idea.

no. Thats not at all what I am saying.

I am saying set the bubble rate so that it is almost always on. Then if the system fails you will not add excess CO2.


P.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

I think I follow you now. When they say set the rate 30-60 bubbles... just start at 30. Then it'll be on a constant "slow" rate. It still turns it off and on automatically but in case anything goes wrong you won't get a flood of CO2. I thought you were trying to tell me.. for the longevity of the solenoid it should remain on... or it'll gum up, or break going off and on quicker, etc.

[pwhitby]

that is exactly my point.

always make systems as fool proof-safe as possible.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

I don't understand why they don't have say... a Ca+/pH probe with this too... or even CO2... for your tank water.. and if it gets out of whack turn the controller off. I guess you could get a 2nd controller to control the controller.? I assumed the thing "controlled" itself to this degree until I looked at the diagram of the entire setup.

[flashpan]

Hello,

Maybe a basic question, but what type of glue did you use to glue the pvc stands together? (The ones that hold the live rocks with the drilled holes).

Thanks!

[pwhitby]

there was no glue used. just push fit, in case i ever need to modify anything.

Paul.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

So do you follow all those manufacturer rec's and replace the probe 18 months, calibrate probe monthly? (think it was monthly), etc. Or do you just monitor your Ca+ and pH through other means and notice if something is off turn it off and fix it.

[jmarti705]

im jealous!

[Reefski's]

don't be jealous. just work your *ss off and spend all your kids inheritance on the tank.

i like to say my daughter bought this or that for me. it is really her inheritance that is buying it.

Carl

[Prater]

Congrats Paul...Can I come over and lick the tank, its just so sexxxy...

[pwhitby]

Originally posted by Prater
Congrats Paul...Can I come over and lick the tank, its just so sexxxy...

Steven....you are a very very bad person!

--so when are you back home for a while?

P.