Rimless - Zen/Bonsai 5-Gallon Setup? - Page 5

Rosseau · #**101** 10/15/2007, 01:04 PM

Maybe an overflow in the middle of the tank hidden by live rock. Like a piece of PVC pipe. That's another idea.

nynex · #**102** 10/16/2007, 07:35 PM

dapellegrini your aquascaping is awesome! I would like to see what you would do
with a 300 gal tank...lol

As far your filtration goes...3 months from now though... I honestly dont think you
are gonna be happy with just the powerhead and live rock for filtration. You really
should add a sump/refugium.

dapellegrini · #**103** 10/16/2007, 08:51 PM

Ya, I am already planning my 14x14x12 drilled version with 3-gallon sump

... This should take me through a bit more of the learning curve though... I may also breakdown and do a black background so I can hang an overflow box on the back... Lots of options. I just don't want to mess this tank up for later FW reuse...

Agu · #**104** 10/16/2007, 09:21 PM

Not to be rude but,

I see a heater, a powerhead, and a protein slick (which is just going to get worse).

Per your original post,

Quote:

I am looking for thoughts and feedback on equipment that would allow me to run a small 5-gallon tank with very little to no equipment hanging in or on the tank.

You need to add some kind of overflow that hides the equipment and removes the protein slick. Either that, or you need to change your objective.

fwiw,

dapellegrini · #**105** 10/16/2007, 09:33 PM

Ya,

still figuring things out. To my defense, I am not sure that the equipment is in its final placement. I also have not stocked a single coral in here, so it is a bit unfair to judge the visibility of equipment against a naked hardscape. :/

IME with FW tanks that also develop a protein film from high levels of DOC - large and frequent water changes help enormously...

How would an overflow work exactly if the tank is not drilled with a sump? How would this help with surface film? Remember I keep the water level perhaps 2mm from the top of the tank...

Agu · #**106** 10/16/2007, 10:18 PM

Same equipment you have in a 5.5,

Members on this forum pay obscene amounts of money for all in one systems that they have to modify, just to hide equipment. It's so simple though,

No protein slick, and I change two cups (16 oz) of water every ten days.

Having corals hide equipment is never what I've wanted, the corals just don't seem to cooperate

.

[

Jimbo327 · #**107** 10/16/2007, 11:34 PM

Hehe,

I always try to hide my equipment with corals, they definitely don't like to cooperate, it takes a great patience to get them to do it.

dapellegrini · #**108** 10/17/2007, 09:51 AM

Sorry for being dense, just trying to understand. I get the overflow thing, in terms of what I would need to do. What I don't understand is how this would remove surface film. With no sump or other mechanical filtration and with the water level inside and outside the overflow being equal, I can't see how adding a big black piece of acrylic will do anything but hide the powerhead/heater...

Jimbo327 · #**109** 10/17/2007, 10:22 AM

The key to an overflow is to keep it lower than the water outside. This way the water will flow into the overflow. But if you want to keep them the same because of your design, then the overflow will be useless like you said.

if you use an overflow, then the outside water level will be around the teeth mark of the overflow. Which is still pretty high, but if you are trying to do it all the way to the top for the ADA look, then the overflow is probably not what you looking to do.

reefer1024 · #**110** 10/17/2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dapellegrini
Sorry for being dense, just trying to understand. I get the overflow thing, in terms of what I would need to do. What I don't understand is how this would remove surface film. With no sump or other mechanical filtration and with the water level inside and outside the overflow being equal, I can't see how adding a big black piece of acrylic will do anything but hide the powerhead/heater...

The water level in the overflow would be slightly lower do to the water being pumped out of it. The pump will empty the overflow into the main tank. When the tank fills above the rim of the overflow it will fall back into the overflow. This will cause water to be from taken from the surface. As water evaporates the level in the overflow will go down, but the water level in the tank should remain constant. I think its a good idea, but the same result can be achieved by aiming the powerhead to disturb the surface (it just wont look as nice). Without some form a physical filtration you wont actually be removing the film, just stirring it back into the water. Hope this helps.

dapellegrini · #**111** 10/17/2007, 03:29 PM

^ That is what I suspected, thank you for the clarification. So besides the potential assistance with aesthetics (not to be understated), an overflow would not do anything for me...

reefer1024 · #**112** 10/17/2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dapellegrini
^ That is what I suspected, thank you for the clarification. So besides the potential assistance with aesthetics (not to be understated), an overflow would not do anything for me...

Pretty much. I think it would do a slightly better job at mixing up the surface scum than a powerhead alone. It may also help in oxygenation. I doubt you would have to worry about that in a tank with no fish.

Jimbo327 · #**113** 10/17/2007, 04:22 PM

Overflows are great to get rid of surface scum, if you don't have surface agitation, the surface of the water quickly becomes hazy and gets like a layer to it.

Rosseau · #**114** 10/17/2007, 06:58 PM

Without actually doing test it's hard to know, however I believe that having a large amount of surface scum will affect water chemistry in such a small tank.

My idea for an overflow for you is to put a single piece of PVC (or a black box, whatever) into the centre of the tank. You can put your powerheads and heater inside of this.

This centre (non-glass hugging) overflow box will accomplish a few things.

-Hide all of your equipment without drilling.
- Skim the surface waters.
- Allow you to easily add more powerheads (all you will see is the outlet of the powerhead)
- Preserve all 4 glass sides of the tank for easy viewing.
- Preserve the tank for future FW use
-Give you a place to put sponges for some mechancial filtration

You could then cover (stack around, or glue) the PVC with rocks all the way to the surface water.

Here is a cheap MS paint mock up of what I mean...

I suppose the issue now would be the power supply. Somehow the cords are going to have to get inside. Also, your rock-scaping will be somewhat dependant on the position and shape of this overflow.

Anyways, thats just my 2 cents. Not trying to tell you what to do though. Good luck!

Jimbo327 · #**115** 10/18/2007, 11:30 AM

I think he's going for the zen look, so an overflow would look kinda out of place and common. He's going for that FW ADA look where it's all filled to the top if I'm guessing correctly.

It's tough to get aesthetics over function sometimes.

Agu · #**116** 10/18/2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dapellegrini
^ That is what I suspected, thank you for the clarification. So besides the potential assistance with aesthetics (not to be understated), an overflow would not do anything for me...

As previously pointed out the overflow doesn't remove DOCs, it just keeps them in suspension.

Beyond the aesthetics (which is important to me too) the protein slick reduces light into the tank. With your fixture that's probably not going to be an issue.

The plus side of a protein slick is that if you remove water from the top when doing waterchanges you're getting a higher percentage of DOCs .

dapellegrini · #**117** 10/19/2007, 07:59 PM

I need to give the hardware all some more thought. I will start by getting an extension cord so I have enough slack to lay the heater down along the back of the tank where you cannot see it....

Update - 2 weeks in

All parameters seem to have stabilized and the tank is doing well - err rather I am seeing a lot of algae, spreading coraline, some small pieces of macro algae popping, up, etc. I added 8 Nassarius Snails and a couple of small zoos that a friend at work gave me. Some pictures and some questions:

I really like these little snails:

Is it a good sign when your rocks are "pearling" all of the time? I am assuming this is the algae growing in:

I should have a better CUC in place by the end of this coming week...

dapellegrini · #**118** 10/19/2007, 08:00 PM

Also, what's the deal with this coraline near the top of the tank? It was green when I bought it, bleached out with my light and how there are actually parts that look burned/scorched???

Is this yellow stuff a sponge of some sort?

And any guesses on what this thing is? If you touch it, it closes up solidly against the rock. A barnacle of some sort???

Finally, is it normal for zoo's to have some forking tentacles? I was told that these fell off of some LR that the previous owner was getting rid of and when he found them rolling around his tank, he attached them to these plugs. I will be removing them from the plugs sometime soon, but wanted to make sure they are ok in the tank first:

Agu · #**119** 10/19/2007, 08:31 PM

Different coraline is adapted to different light, just like any other plant. You're light is probably too bright for that particuler coraline. No problem, a new variety will grow back with the proper parameters.

Yeah, probably a sponge.

Your guess is as good as mine.

The forked tentacle on the Zoa looks unusual but I've never examined my zoas that closely.

Isn't it great what you find on live rock

?

dapellegrini · #**120** 10/19/2007, 08:35 PM

Ya, the LR by itself is a lot of fun. So far I have found an Orange Ball Anemone, tons of little clear shrimp/amphipod looking things that scurry around after dark, different kinds of feather dusters, bristle worms, sponges, and that barnacle thing.

mangus7175 · #**121** 10/20/2007, 11:01 AM

On the previous posts about the film...that was what my concern was when I posted the question about the surface agitation. I just finished my 20G long frag tank (not for display) so looks are not on the good side. Basically, I made a built-in filtration area similar to that of a nano cube....maybe it can offer some ideas for you. I also don't plan to run a sump on this tank. Pics below...

I hope this will help give you ideas....

Slakker · #**122** 10/20/2007, 11:37 AM

Mangus, I think that looks pretty sweet! To make it a display, I would just rotate it around and have a display fuge in the chamber with the rock. Do you have a thread somewhere with more details on how you did that? It seems pretty straightforward, but some more info on what equipment and everything would be nice (without hijacking the original thread).

Dan, glad to hear that things seem to be going well. I have one of those shells in my tank somewhere as well, I believe it's an Ark shell, but it's hard to get an exact species ID. Mine roams, however. It climbed up my back wall, it was attached to my magfloat for a while, and after i discovered it there and moved it to get some photos it dropped off. I put it up on top of my rocks to see if it would attach there, left for a while, and i came back to find it attached upside down on that rock. The next morning it had wandered off again.

It's a funny little creature, and kinda cool. I wish mine would stay put.

mangus7175 · #**123** 10/20/2007, 12:27 PM

Thanks Slakker....I'll PM you the details as I don't want to hijack this thread....I don't have a thread on the build but I can pretty much supply you with my materials list along with the measurements.

won digity · #**124** 10/20/2007, 06:34 PM

I honestly feel like it is a really difficult problem trying to clean up reef tank aesthetics. Heaters, black boxes, pumps, tubing, cords, overflow boxes, protien skimmers, etc.. even lights are pretty ugly.
It is really hard to replicate the clean planted tank presentation in a reef tank, the aesthetic is so different. I'm still waiting for someone to get smart and make an all glass protien skimmer.

Good job so far and good luck

Jimbo327 · #**125** 10/21/2007, 08:39 AM

why would anyone want an all glass skimmer? I wouldn't.

I think Dan can achieve his look because he is used to FW tanks, and does good weekly water changes. Most people will not be able to keep it up like him.

I can leave my tank alone for 1 month, and nothing will change because of automation of topoff, and have nutrient export via chaeto. Other people have skimmers. But without nutrient export, Dan will have to manually remove water to have a chance of a clean reef tank, which is more tedius but doable. And if he grows macro in the display, it will be even better...but he will need to know which macro to use.