Should I switch from MH to T-5

[ezhoops]

I know this is a controversial subject and opinions differ, but I really need some good solid advice.
I currently have a hamiliton 36" 250W HQI 10K MH with 2 65W PC

This light was very expensive in my opinion and I loved it initially. The problem I am having now is:

1. it creates high water temps in my tank which are killing my corals and causing huge evaporation issues.

2. It is very expensive to run (electrically)


My tank is 36" long and 24" wide. If I was convinced to switch over to T-5 I would like something that would be close in wattage. So I was thinking of a 8 bulb unit (not sure if that is even possible). I really only keep simple corals that don't require too much light but I like to be able to keep my options open and not have to worry about being limited because of lighting.

Please advise

[ezhoops]

Anyone?

[Big Jay]

I absolutely *LOVE* my Tek Light I have over my 29gal. Its a 4 bulb 24" model.

It gives off very little heat and my corals are thriving. i have an acro frag that i added as a "test subject" to see how SPS would do in my tank. Well, under the T5's its already showing some IMPRESSIVE growth.

IMO T5's are only slightly less powerful then MH's, less expensive to run, give off alot less heat.

I have heard of ppl bleaching SPS under T5's up high.

[Wryknow]

I really love my T5s but changing out lighting can be pricey. A 4 x bulb ICECAP retro-fit kit should work out just fine in your tank but that set-up will still be drawing around 240W of power (roughly equivalent to a 6 bulb TEK set-up.)

As to the heat issue, what temp does your tank run now? What other equipment do you have running? It should knock a few degrees off of your avergae tank temperature but if you've got a lot of other equipment or a high room temperature you may still need to look at heater.

Is it worth it? I guess it depends. The T5s will be cheaper long term but short term it may be cheaper to just buy a chiller (and you may need one anyway.)

[sirjohn]

I have 8 T5s over a 92 gallon corner, 4x24 watters and 4x39 watters. They are on separate Icecap 660 ballasts and combined put out a total of ~400 watts or so (overdriven).

I used to run a 90 gallon with 2x250 watt MHs and 2 x 96 watt PC actinics. The heat those lights put out was unbelievable. Living in Miami, it was impossible to keep the temperature down without a chiller. The chiller plus the MH/PC lights was also wrecking havoc on my electric bill.

So, when I started the 92 gallon, I decided to go with T5s. Although I have no corals as of yet (the tank was set up about 4 weeks ago), and can't comment on growth and coloration, I can tell you that the heat issues I had before have largely dissappeared. With a couple of fans and an ambient room temperature of between 76 to 78 degrees, I can keep my tank running comfortably at 79-80 degrees without the need for a expensive, noisy and inefficient chiller. In fact, I actually had to buy a heater (in Miami!) because when the lights went off at night, the temperature sometimes was already at 78 degrees and would start dropping even more as the AC kicked in for sleeping.

As for light output, while I don't have a PAR meter, the T5s on independent reflectors seem to be putting out tons of light. I honestly feel I could keep anything under these lights, so long as I am careful as to where I place things (for example, crocea and maxima clams should probably be kept in the upper half of the tank).

Here is a picture of my tank with just the T5 4x24 watters (~160 total watts overdriven). Notice the brightness on the top of the "mountain", which is directly below a 10k Aquasun 24 watt T5.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by ezhoops
I know this is a controversial subject and opinions differ, but I really need some good solid advice.
I currently have a hamiliton 36" 250W HQI 10K MH with 2 65W PC

This light was very expensive in my opinion and I loved it initially. The problem I am having now is:

1. it creates high water temps in my tank which are killing my corals and causing huge evaporation issues.

2. It is very expensive to run (electrically)

T5 isnt going to solve any of those issues.


They run just as hot, and use just as much electricity.


Seriously, that fixture should only cost you about $10 a month, max, in Mi.

[Engine 7]

Watt for watt they run just as hot but you are able to use less wattage to light your tank. Same with electricity cost. As far as cost, a watt is a watt.
I have used metal halides for years and now run an Aquactinic 14 bulb fixture and it is much better then halides overall imo.
I have found my sps and clams do better under the T5's, not sure why but they do. My house and tank water and down a couple degrees but I am now able to run with less watts/gallon because I use T5's.
Will I ever go back to metal halides? Never.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Engine 7
Watt for watt they run just as hot but you are able to use less wattage to light your tank. Same with electricity cost. As far as cost, a watt is a watt.

The you can use less wattage is ridiculous. They make the same light per watt. Whether it takes more wattage is totally dependant on tank shape. In this case, Its going to take him much more wattage to light with T5s.


We're talking about a 36x24" tank.


A single 175w Iwasaki in a lumenarc would cover that tank, and you'd be able to keep sps wherever you want.


With T5s, we're looking at 8-12x39w just to handle the width. Thats 312-468w.

T5s are just going to make his problems worse. (and I say that as someone who switched to T5s, and loves them)

[RichConley]

If you really want to fix your heat/electricity, get rid of the damn Mag18 and Sequence Dart, and replace them with a pair of Tunze 6101s/6080s. You'll drop 300+w and about 250w of heat.

[sirjohn]

I will not profess to know as much on this topic as others because I simply have not researched it enough, so I speak only from my own personal experience. And within that realm of experience, with T5s I could control my temperature in the tropical heat of Miami using fans and no chiller, while with MHs I couldn't dream of doing that.

While it may be true that T5s put out as much heat as MHs, in my experience they heated the water less. I don't know why that is, but I'm guessing it may be because in a 36" bulb the heat is spread out along the length of the bulb and is largely diffused by running fans along the length of the bulb (as I do), while a MH acts as a pinpoint source of heat, which is much harder to dissipate with just fans and no chiller.

They both likely use the same amount of electricity, but the difference is that if you can avoid using a chiller, you will undoubtedly save electricity.

[Engine 7]

Calm down Rich, no need to be rude. Good quality T5's have better par ratings then halides. that is the reason i went with them. Overall they are doing a better job then halides on my tanks.

[HBtank]

Originally posted by RichConley
The you can use less wattage is ridiculous. They make the same light per watt. Whether it takes more wattage is totally dependant on tank shape. In this case, Its going to take him much more wattage to light with T5s.


We're talking about a 36x24" tank.


A single 175w Iwasaki in a lumenarc would cover that tank, and you'd be able to keep sps wherever you want.


With T5s, we're looking at 8-12x39w just to handle the width. Thats 312 -468w.

T5s are just going to make his problems worse. (and I say that as someone who switched to T5s, and loves them)

Wow.. settle down Rich.....

I don't think 24" can even fit more than 8 at most? Whats with the exxageration. 12???? Not to mention stating you need 8-12 t5's to match the coverage of a 175w MH??? Just odd statements. You must not be serious and are just trying to make a point...?

I was only able to fit 6 in 18" and my tank is overlit....

I think he could do just fine with 6 bulbs. You do not have to pack them in every square inch of the canopy anyways, and coverage can be easily increased by spacing them. Some spacing is ok, or maybe even use the new Tek 2 reflectors. Or just only have them at the back and leave the front less lit. I have found I need less lit areas anyways.. THere are many solutions and you do not need to cram every inch of light possible into his canopy....

I personally have OVERLIT my tank becuase I took the random comments like you just gave in T5 application seriously. My 4x54w and 2x39w ICECAPS give my coral sunburns and keep my coral healthy even at ridiculously short lighting schedules.

Also, everyone seems to be missing the 2x65w PC that would be removed in conjuction.

This is how it would stack up numbers wise if using 6-8 bulbs:

6-8 T5 x 38w = 228-304 watts

Versus

the current 380 Watts

172 - 76 watts IS a difference. Especially if you factor in that most people have seen cooler tanks (with T5's) in the actual application of similar wattage T5 and MH systems.

I do agree that he may have worse contributors than the lighting, and I personally would start there (especially the pumps) and get rid of the PC and try 2X39w T5's in their place to begin solving the heat problems. If that is not enough, maybe then try all t5's

[Engine 7]

I found that when I went from halides to T5's watts didnt mean the same thing. T5's are brighter and more efficient. They do run cooler in the long run because the fixtures tend to run less wattage.

[seastar12]

I like mhs

[Engine 7]

Me too. I like T5's better I have used both.

[SoFloReefer]

I have 4 X 39 watts T5s which I just retrofitted to have individual TEK reflectors. Before I did this I had an individual reflector and STILL kept SPS frags which have showed good growth. Keep in mind I keep them towards the top of my tank. Montiporas, green slimmer, birdsnest, ORA tort, Milliporas, anthroceris have all done remarkably well before I retrofitted. My tricolor Acropora and my tyree stag didn't do that well under the single reflector and never really colored up. They did grow slowly though. With the individual reflectors these two corals are starting to color up and extend their polyps. My fixture runs cool with one 50mm fan and I actually have to run two 150 watt heaters to keep my temp between 78-79 degrees. This is actually irrelevant because my cool temperature without the heaters is due to high evaporation because of the high degree of water current.

[SoFloReefer]

I forgot to say I would never consider running MHs because I have experience with High Pressure Sodium (not in aquariums) and the amount of heat they produce is ridiculous. That isn't to say that HID lighting isn't super efficient because it is. I simply am not willing to run HID and a chiller.

[ezhoops]

my avg temp in summer is 84-85, keep in mind this tank is kept in my basement, I have AC that is kept at 70 and I have just added a fan and raised the light. In winter my temp is avg 76-80.

I would hate to have to get rid of my pumps and replace them with two more expensive pumps. I really think the lighting is a huge issue.

I just want a solution

[RichConley]

I agree that the T5s work well. Thats why I'm running them now instead of the 2x250w MH I was running before.


But HEAT IS HEAT IS HEAT IS HEAT. It doesnt matter how its made.

I would hate to have to get rid of my pumps and replace them with two more expensive pumps. I really think the lighting is a huge issue.

I GUARANTEE that the Mag18 is adding MUCH more heat to your tank than the MH fixture.

[Wryknow]

4 x ICECAP OD 39W T5 retrofits will use about 240W of power compared to your current set-up of 1 x 250 W MH + 2 x 65 W PCs (380W total.) That's a 50% drop in power consumption and it will produce more useable PAR over the entire tank instead of the intense spotlight effect that your getting from the MH now. If you were setting up a new system this would be a no-brainer but replacing existing set-ups is more complicated

I agree 100% with replacing the Mag 18 return with a more efficient pump. Drop the $160 on an Eheim 1262 and I bet that will knock a degree or two out of the water temperature by itself. When I first got my tank from another reefer I replaced the existing MAG 24 return with a 1262 and dropped my average tank temp by about 3-4 degrees. The flow drop was not that dramatic either since the MAG 24 was being restricted by the 3/4" return lines anyway.

Rich - T5s produce more PAR per watt of power consumed i.e. they are more efficient. Less wattage consumed plus more useful energy output = less wasted heat. It's not physically possible to produce the same amount of heat with both set-ups without violating the laws of conservation of energy.

[jennmac415]

Engine..

I am very glad to hear that you like your fixture from Aquactinics, as I am upgrading from a 29 gallon, running a 175 14k halide and 18 watt T-5 actinic to a 180 gallon with the 72" 14 bulb fixture from Aquactinics...no more halides for me either! I would love to see a picture of your tank with the T-5s....

thanks!
Jenni

[HBtank]

Rich won't listen.

He is obsessed with stating in every thread like this one that watts = heat and ignores everything else in order to make that point. In this case even making up numbers and recommendations that make no sense just to get the wattages he needs.

Even if the watts were equal, it has been shown in most applications T5's are far easier to cool and end up adding less heat.

So no Rich, HEAT does not always equal HEAT... Form factor also comes into play.




I still think you should ditch the Mag 18 first though, it is a heat machine. The PC's are also inneficient, but if you change those you might just go all T5's...

[aztbs]

Here's my personal opinion,

I had a 55gallon tank running 2x175W MH lights. Now I have a 180gallon tank running 6x80 watt T5's (5ft bulbs).

The tank is 6'x2'x2'. 6 bulbs with individual reflectors (retrofit with two icecap 660's) fill the 24in width. I'd be hard pressed to get 7 and couldn't dream of 8.
I keep lots of SPS and have had phenomenal growth.

This is what I found are the advantages of T5:
- Better color control. Mix and matching 6 different bulbs in so many color choices lets you dial in the perfect light. I could never find a MH bulb I liked colorwise and had to supplement with PC.

- Low profile. I didn't like top heavy tanks with huge canopies or the room blasting glow of pendant lights.

- Less watts to get coverage. I would have gone with two 250's, maybe three, plus PC or T5 supplements and would have had minumum 500watts of MH + 200-300 watts of PC or similar. My 6 bulbs are 480 watts, maybe they pull 600 total being overdriven. It is not a huge difference, but every bit counts.

- No dark spots. Directly under the MH bulbs is the premium spot for high light corals, but that is small real estate. The T5 light is more evenly spread allowing more flexibility IMO for aquascaping and coral placement.

- No shimmering. I love photographing my tank and the shimmer lines drive me crazy. They are truly beautiful, but I get tired of it quick. I prefer no shimmer.

Your tank may not be better off with T5 lights than what you have now. You will certainly spend a lot more than you will save in the short term. It is really a matter of preference.

I also agree that the Mag 18 could be adding a lot of heat to your system.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by HBtank

Even if the watts were equal, it has been shown in most applications T5's are far easier to cool and end up adding less heat.

So no Rich, HEAT does not always equal HEAT... Form factor also comes into play.

Please show me where "this has been shown"

Please post a credible reference. This has not been shown, as it is false.

I still think you should ditch the Mag 18 first though, it is a heat machine. The PC's are also inneficient, but if you change those you might just go all T5's...

The Mag18 is 180w of pure heat.


wyrknow

Rich - T5s produce more PAR per watt of power consumed i.e. they are more efficient. Less wattage consumed plus more useful energy output = less wasted heat. It's not physically possible to produce the same amount of heat with both set-ups without violating the laws of conservation of energy.

No, that is not true. T5 and MH produce almost EXACTLY the same amount of light per watt. As to heat produced, light gets turned into heat, so yes, if they use the same wattage, they produce the same heat.

If you have a credible reference stating that T5 produces more light than MH, post it. I guarantee you can not find one, because it simply IS NOT TRUE.


Seriously guys, stop making stuff up.

[Engine 7]

Rich, just because you state things and claim that they are fact and even though we dont state our sources we have our opinions and observations. Our ideas and past experiences are not ridiculous. Do you think that you can stop coming into threads and disagreeing with other members thaughts? Can you word things in such a way as to lend credibility to your text instead of snottyness and ignorance? If not, be cool and think before typing. I would hate to see what you are like in real life when you cant hide behind a screen name.
We are people too, with ideas and opinions.

Be cool.