125g closed loop ideas

Darkstar04 · #1 08/23/2007, 10:37 PM

I am setting up a 125g in a few months, and I can't decide what to set up for the closed loop. I want to avoid using powerheads if I can help it. I would probably use a MAG 9.5 or 12 for the return from the 30g sump.

For the closed loop, I would be drilling 4 bulkheads (two for intake, two for nozzles) and dropping two nozzles over the top. Is there any problem with having nozzles at different heads?

My two ideas for the CL so far:

1 - Standard DART, maybe with an OM some day.

DART link

2 - Two Pan-world, which I would control with a pump controller to sequence: 1, 2, 1&2, 1, 2, 1&2 (etc), with eductors. Using either a 50PX-X or 100PX-X. This is really two CLs, technically.
Pan-world 50PX-X link
or
Pan-world 100PX-X link

Input please! I run a 30g right now and I don't know enough about the flow requirements and dynamics in a tank of this size. Also if anything I mentioned isn't possible or is a no-no, let me know before I do something stupid.

Thanks!

Darkstar04 · #2 08/23/2007, 10:38 PM

Oh, tank dimensions are 60"x18"x25"(tall)

Darkstar04 · #3 08/24/2007, 03:44 PM

I guess one bump won't hurt.

muzz · #4 08/24/2007, 05:13 PM

i have a 72" 125g woth two loops. There are 4 bulkheads for the two loops, two inlets and two outlets. I use 2 OR 6500 pumps(ocean runner). they are only 90 watts, and push 1700 gph each, so hey can be used on a waemaker. when running a pump over 100 watts, most wavemakers will not work, they say to use powerheads/pumps with 100w or less. I was going to use the gen x pump, cant remember the size off hand, but drs. foster and smith had a grat deal on the OR pumps.

I do not have them going over the edge, such as oyu would with a OM 4 way, but I do have both returns with a Y fitting and locline. It works well, and I also use a korallia 3 and I have a large panworld(1900gph) pump returning water from the sump. But the sump is in the basement, and I have 12 feet of head pressure on that one, and other things run off of it.

It all supplies the system with over 5000gph, and I am looking to add one more pump over the top with a wavyseas or something similiar for a little more flow as my sps grow out. Keep me updated on what you decide to use and how it works out for you. I am always looking for new things that I can use in the future to improve things.

danskim · #5 08/24/2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by muzz

I do not have them going over the edge, such as oyu would with a OM 4 way, but I do have both returns with a Y fitting and locline.

You can plumb an OceansMotions setup without going over the tank lip as well.

If at all possible, I'd invest in a OM setup with a Dart just so it's easier later if you ever decide you want it.

carlso63 · #6 08/24/2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkstar04
I am setting up a 125g in a few months, and I can't decide what to set up for the closed loop. I want to avoid using powerheads if I can help it. I would probably use a MAG 9.5 or 12 for the return from the 30g sump.

For the closed loop, I would be drilling 4 bulkheads (two for intake, two for nozzles) and dropping two nozzles over the top. Is there any problem with having nozzles at different heads?

My two ideas for the CL so far:

1 - Standard DART, maybe with an OM some day.

DART link

2 - Two Pan-world, which I would control with a pump controller to sequence: 1, 2, 1&2, 1, 2, 1&2 (etc), with eductors. Using either a 50PX-X or 100PX-X. This is really two CLs, technically.
Pan-world 50PX-X link
or
Pan-world 100PX-X link

Input please! I run a 30g right now and I don't know enough about the flow requirements and dynamics in a tank of this size. Also if anything I mentioned isn't possible or is a no-no, let me know before I do something stupid.

Thanks!

Why not just "ditch" the whole idea of a closed loop and get yourself 4 Koralia #4s?

- 4 X 1,200 = 4,800 gph

- 4 X 12.5w = 49w total

- placeable anywhere there's glass (sides, back, front of tank)

- 4 X $44.99 = under $200 total cost

No drilling, no bulkheads, no leaking CL pipes... same amount of flow at less than 1/2 the cost and 1/4 the electric usage.

I have 2 on my 125g Mixed Reef. I originally bought 3, but removed 1 because the LPS corals didn't like that much flow.
I used to bother with CLs... but CLs are too much bother. And noise, leaks, heat, etc...

If I had a SPS only, or SPS dominated setup then I would do 4, as SPS needs that high a flow rate. Nobody else does...

Darkstar04 · #7 08/25/2007, 12:38 AM

What about a VorTech? People seem to like them so much, that it might be worth starting with just my return pump and one VorTech.... could always supplement with another or some Koralias later if needed.

The CL ideas are really driven by a desire to get some wave action, and not have too many things sticking out all over the place. VorTechs are pretty streamlined, and even that + a Koralia 4 wouldn't be too bulky if I didn't have all those CL bulkheads all over.

Side topic: the sump is 30g. What is the max recommended gph for the return pump? I have been struggling with that as well (as I said, considering a MAG 9.5 or 12 right now, since they are easy to get cheap+used).

dtaylor123 · #8 08/25/2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carlso63
Why not just "ditch" the whole idea of a closed loop and get yourself 4 Koralia #4s?

- 4 X 1,200 = 4,800 gph

- 4 X 12.5w = 49w total

- placeable anywhere there's glass (sides, back, front of tank)

- 4 X $44.99 = under $200 total cost

No drilling, no bulkheads, no leaking CL pipes... same amount of flow at less than 1/2 the cost and 1/4 the electric usage.

I have 2 on my 125g Mixed Reef. I originally bought 3, but removed 1 because the LPS corals didn't like that much flow.
I used to bother with CLs... but CLs are too much bother. And noise, leaks, heat, etc...

If I had a SPS only, or SPS dominated setup then I would do 4, as SPS needs that high a flow rate. Nobody else does...

In my opinion, I agree, but I disagree on the Hydors. Buy two Tunze's 6101's and a Tunze Multi controller (7095) and you will never add a power head to your tank, only your return and the Tunze's. MOST of the water movement will be from your Tunze's, so only try and push 900-1000 GPH from your sump/fuge.

CL's are good in theory, but they have a lot of issues. Your tank matures and now the locations may not be in a good spot, leaks (not to big of an issue if done correct), the cost, by the time you buy all of the equipment, it got expensive. The Tunze Multi Controller is awesome. Down load the manual at their web site. Yes they are costly, but in the long run a much better option, the 6101's can push 3600 GPH if desired (too much for your tank) but they come with a jumper to push less and they are DC and very inexpensive to run.

Good luck with your decision and I hope it all works out!

Dan

Darkstar04 · #9 08/25/2007, 06:54 PM

Can anybody who has used both Tunze streams and VorTechs (separately) comment on which system works better overall?

Overall advice from a couple different places seems to point me away from doing a CL.

muzz · #10 08/25/2007, 10:18 PM

to me, a closed loop is the least expensive way to go. I guess it depends on what you want to do. my 2 loops cost me less than 200 for everything, plumbing, pumps, holes drilled and all. a tunze system will run over 800 bucks i think, and the vortechs are close to 400 each. I am sure they are great, but I just couldnt spend that kind of money when I set up my system. Maybe in the future, I do not know. I do know that I have zero problems with leaking, heat issues or cost to running the loops. good luck with whatever you do,

carlso63 · #11 08/27/2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by muzz
to me, a closed loop is the least expensive way to go. I guess it depends on what you want to do. my 2 loops cost me less than 200 for everything, plumbing, pumps, holes drilled and all. a tunze system will run over 800 bucks i think, and the vortechs are close to 400 each. I am sure they are great, but I just couldnt spend that kind of money when I set up my system. Maybe in the future, I do not know. I do know that I have zero problems with leaking, heat issues or cost to running the loops. good luck with whatever you do,

That is why I rec'ed the Koralias over the Tunzes or Vortechs... 4 Koralias will give him almost 5000 gph for under $200... the others may have extra features (like the Tunze Controller) but your talking how many times the total cost?

Your CL system may have come in close to that on cost - but I don't think you got 5000 gph worth of external pumps for that price . Plus, you are probably pulling 100+ watts for those pumps where the (4) K4s would pull less than 50w total...

muzz · #12 08/27/2007, 08:18 PM

you are correct, I am running 2 or6500 pumps for 3400 gph, along with main return pump and a korallia 3. total water movement is over 500 gpd, the only thing with the korallias is that you can not really put them on a wavemaker, as they can not handle the constant on and off. I keep mine on constant, and have the loop pumps on a wavemaker machine, that slowly throttles the pumps up to full, to keep from wearing them out to quickly.

I wish I could go with vortechs or tunze, especially tunze, but I had already invested thousands into my system, and loops were the cheapest way for me to go for water movement.

On a large system thoguh, do you know how the tunze wavemakers, or wave2k machines work? are they worth the cost? and do they really do good at turning over the toal volume? I am starting to think of building another system, and want it to be top notch. That one would not be done for at least 18 months though, so plenty of time to look around.

bobafet1 · #13 08/29/2007, 06:36 PM

I have an excellent condition OM4way and Dart pump I will let go for $375 shipped. PM me if your interested.

Pirate@40 · #14 09/11/2007, 12:24 PM

The wave2K works by moving a plate up and down inside a box. There are holes on the side at the top and bottom of the box so water is alternatively sucked in and expelled from top and bottom. There is a shaft in the middle of the box that is spun by a belt off an external motor mounted either over the top of the unit(flush mount) or over the back of the tank. The shaft has a track in it and the plate has a guide that rides along the track. The problem I had with mine is that it eventually binds up and the guide broke due to friction and wear. I think this condition is made worse by the addition of calcium by reactor, kalkwasser, or granules. It's repairable, but I decided to go with a tunze wavebox instead. While I wouldn't say it is loud, you can definitely hear the wave2k.
The wavebox is an empty box with a tunze stream at the bottom. The top of the box has a grill and is above water level. The device works by turning the tunze on and off. when it's on. it empties the box. when it's off, the box fills. This creates a sloshing motion or wave in your tank once you set the box to your tank resonant frequency. This is relatively easy to do with the controller. The "wave" is about 1" from crest to trough on my 90 gal, so as the water moves up on one side of the tank, it is down 1" on the other side. The cycle is ~40/minute meaning that it rises and falls 40 times each minute. This will vary by tank size. It should creat about the same in your 120 since the length is the same. Since it's also propeling the water at high speed along the back of the tank, it also creats a slight whilpool effect in addition to the wave. It creates a lot of water movement. I also run a wavy sea off my fuge return line to create some turbulence. The tunze runs very quiet. I can barely, and I mean barely, hear it with everything else off. I would highly recommend the tunze wavebox. Hoep this helps.