210 Gallon Tank and Stand Build. - Page 3

mangus7175 · #51 08/07/2007, 07:54 PM

Tagging along....love the detail and attention you put into building this thanks for sharing this with the community...awesome stuff.

boviac · #52 08/08/2007, 12:15 AM

Your setup is very clean. Keep the pics coming. However, I've noticed you're running your sump level pretty full (high). Have you allowed for pump-off siphon effect level rise in your sump?

dngspot · #53 08/08/2007, 07:42 AM

I run my sump high because I do not like bubble producing water falls. I have 5 inches of empty space in the sump. It will take 18.7 gallons before it overflows. When the pump is shut off the water level raises about 1.5 inches in the sump. This is done with out any check valves.

dngspot · #54 08/12/2007, 08:35 PM

I thought I would take a break from the heat and give an update. Last night before I went to the meeting I mounted the switch panels to a piece of painted oak. This morning Gail, my wife, siliconed the panels to the oak, to keep water out. Wile she did that, I installed 2 lines of romex 14 gauge from the small distribution box in my garage to the box that houses the ballast. I installed 3- 4 pole double through relays and the box to a board, then installed it close to the location that wires will pass through the wall. I wired the relays to the new 110v circuits. I then made a template for mounting the ballast. I marked the holes and drilled. I bought 7/8 inch stand offs from HD and used 4 inch deck screws to mount the ballast. I stopped there. I will give an update tonight when I finish with the MH, that is if I finish, this is taking up some time
Here are a few pics.

This pic shows the blue breaker in installed. They are 2 15 amp breakers. The metal halide ballast use 4 amps apiece, they will use a combined 12 amps. The vho will be on the other 15 amp circuit, they only pull 6 amps total.

You can see the white romex going up into the attic from the small distribution box.

This is the ballast box and relays. The ballast box former life was a disconnect switch.

The relays on the right are for the MH lights the relay on the left is for the VHO lights.

The ballast mounted but not wired.

The mounted switchs, these are cool.
Back to the heat and work.

dngspot · #55 08/12/2007, 08:36 PM

I am calling it a day. I did not finish or even get close. I did get into the house finaly. Now I need to go from the switch panel to the relays and I can fire the things up.

You can see here I have wired from the relays to the inside of the box. The relays will be giving the main current to the ballast.

In this pic, I have installed 1.25 PVC through the wall. I have taken the wires to inside of the house through the pvc. When I am finished I will fill the pvc with expandable foam.

dngspot · #56 08/13/2007, 08:01 PM

The Metal Halide lights are up and running. Wow, they are bright. I think they look a bit green but this may be my water, I have not used carbon for a long time. I did notice if I turn off my VHO's the water looks white. If carbon does not take care of the problem out go the actinic and in come 50/50.
I still need to set up the timer circuit and move the vho ballast out into the garage. I also need to install a fan in the MH ballast box to move the hot air out, I would hate for them to over heat.
One cool thing is my camera is taking better pic's. I think the overwhelming light from the tank over rides the red flash.
1200 watts of MH and 640 watts of VHO.

dngspot · #57 08/14/2007, 12:06 PM

Cost of each 400 watt system. Ballast $36.90, reflectors $19.95, moguls $5.00, XM bulbs $69.00 and $7.00 wire. The box was free but one for a single ballast about $8.00. $145.85 is not bad for a complete 400 watt system but a day and a half in a hot garage was a drag and not very cost efficient. I should have done this in the spring when I could have enjoyed it. If someone asked me to install on of these for them I would want an additional $150.00, and I would not be able to get to it until I start retirement. Expect the price on the goodies to be higher then.

cannarella · #58 08/14/2007, 01:33 PM

I like.

dngspot · #59 08/15/2007, 09:08 PM

I have finished with the MH ballast box. The new fan is in and seems to perform nicely. I wired the fan to the second ballast relay, the fan will come on when the MH lights are on and off when they are turned off.
Here are a few pics of the box and fan.

I first drilled 2 holes in the box, one in the top and another in the side. Air flow is up thought the bottom right to the top left, above the top ballast. I put the hole here because this was the hottest part of the box. Now all of that heat is blown out the hole above the ballast.
If you look closely at the relays you will see a white and black wire, these are for the fan.

Here is the second hole and the fan intake. It took everything for my 18 volt to cut the second hole, it used two battery charges to cut both of the holes.

The fan is the black item at the lower right. My wiring looks like a mess in the box, but those ballast have several extra wires that are not used and it’s in a box, not seen is beautiful. The multi tap ballast where what was offered at $36.00.

pepeinthenavy · #60 08/16/2007, 12:41 AM

overall great set-up and the way it should be done. All at once not lil at a time!!!!

0 Agios · #61 08/16/2007, 02:43 AM

I think I threw away that disconnect box 2 weeks ago

very nice setup

MarineGirl411 · #62 08/16/2007, 02:59 AM

Did you make all the rock that is now in your 210? Looks great. Just like fiji. =)

dngspot · #63 08/16/2007, 06:55 AM

40 lbs of Figi, 350 lbs of concrete.

dngspot · #64 08/16/2007, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 0 Agios
I think I threw away that disconnect box 2 weeks ago very nice setup

I could have used it. My electrical buddy could not find anything, but I did not give him much notice. The box came from a welder at work. His father gathered it up and it sat in his barn for a couple of years.

dngspot · #65 08/18/2007, 07:28 PM

I have finally finished my electrical work. I do not think that it has come out as nice as I would have wished but I am burnt out on wiring this tank. I have tucked most of the wires under the tank. They are held up with common cup hooks. Each item is held on its own hook, I did not want to bundle all up in one large harness, now I can remove one item and not cut a harness apart. I have the mess hidden anyway. Here is a pic of the mess.

I still need to install my fans. I will be doing this tomorrow. When this is done I will dress the wires behind my tank. The green fan is temporary but does a great job. If you look hard you can see the grey box on the wall, this is the location the MH lights and canopy fan plugs into. The Vho wire harness passes through a hole behind the box and has a disconnect for servicing..

The outside box is finished and the VHO ballast are finally outside. I used the old wire harness for the VHO's but removed the switches that where located below the ballast.

The fans, lights and pumps are all controlled by the switches on the panel. The canopy fan is wired to come on when the VHO's come on. The fans can also be tuned on manually via a switch. Light timers are also switched; the lights can also be tuned on by a switch.
Most of the wire is off of the floor; in the pic you can see my ground probe and the two wires from the switch panels.

dngspot · #66 08/20/2007, 06:57 AM

This is the last of the electrical work to be done. The fans are installed in the canopy. Thanks to Bloke, he came over to help me lift the canopy off of the tank and hold it still while I drilled the new holes. The type of cutter I used is an adjustable circle cutter. It setup allot of vibration and the extra help from Bloke was needed.
The fans are 120v, 117cfm and 50db. The first number says that the fans can be plugged into the wall, the second number is how much air they move and the last number means they are frick'n loud. I am not sure if I will be using them for long. I have a true understanding what 50db means now.
Here are a few pics of the install.

The pic below is the final dressing of the wires from the canopy.

hurleycr · #67 08/21/2007, 12:18 AM

dude you did some serious electrical work there.....

tank looks great though.... nice and clean plumbing. Must be easier not having to plumb in a skimmer and what not.

MarineGirl411 · #68 08/21/2007, 01:31 AM

Your tank looks great. I was wondering, I see a RBTA (I think) , Zoanthids and some clams. I was wondering what made you decide to go with the 400 watt MH lights? Why not the 250? Are you planning on a lot of SPS? I know the tank depth is 30", but 250's would still penetrate far down for a mixed reef correct? I would love to do something like this, but the idea of 3 400 watt MH lights kind of scares me. Big electric bill, and heat. How many center braces does this tank have? 2? I love the 210 tanks. They are huge! I'd have to make my stand kind of short though, because I'm really short. =/. It's a bummer. I really like the stand you built and your concrete rock looks great. I really like your set up a lot. LMK about the lights. I'd love to know. TY

dngspot · #69 08/21/2007, 07:02 AM

Hurleyer, I am not using a skimmer at this time, but the option is still open. Plumbing in a skimmer is a non issue. It will be an in sump unit and have its own pump. Yes, it was a bunch of work and the garage were most of the work was was very hot.

MarineGirl, I went with the 400w lights because I do not want to be limited by lights again. The tank does have two braces.

Thanks for the complements.

hurleycr · #70 08/21/2007, 05:43 PM

ah i see I was thinking of an external and the extra pipe because that's what I'm doing with my tank right.

dngspot · #71 08/22/2007, 10:14 AM

Just when you think you finish with a project you find that it can be done better. I found out that my ballasts could be ran on 240v. This is what I originally wanted to do, the MH ballasts have several wires that allow you to run at different voltages. My ballast have wires (taps, like a beer tap) labeled 120v, 208v, 240v and 270v. When I got the ballast I could not understand how to wire a 240v circuit with one wire, there was not another wire to support another leg, this is 120v from the other buss in the control panel. After talking to Missle150, we both agreed that the ballasts schematic would not support the other leg, but he did hear from one of the electrical suppliers in town that the ballasts could be run 240v and the other leg would be connected to one of the two common wires. I did not like how this sounded hooking a live wire to a common causes big sparks and possibly a boom.

As curious as I am I kept coming across this, hooking a live wire to one of the common wires. So today I brought home my good multimeter with a 20 amp fuse in it and wired my system for 240v, but left one of the legs off of the ballast. I very quickly passed my test leads over the wires and never saw any thing over 1.4 amps. Then I held the leads and the ballast started to fire the bulbs. Cool it works.

The ballast are now running quieter, less hum and seem to be cooler. The 240v fan that I bought is put to good use; it also is moving more air than the 120v fan and is quieter. The relays do not work as hard, so I should have longer life from them

argetni44 · #72 08/22/2007, 10:33 AM

Excellent work... and to think it's all DIY!!!

Roamer · #73 08/22/2007, 11:20 AM

dngspot,

I'm all about DIY electrical work. I've replaced the 100 amp load center in my home with a 200 amp load center (all in code, permited, inspected and approved), wired up my ship with it's own sub panel, multiple outlet circuits, mutiple light circuits and multiple 240 (aka: 220) outlets for my assorted 240V tools (table saw, bandsaw, compressor, etc.)

But DIY electrical is NOT something you should be doing in any way if you do not understand what is going on. This stuff can kill you and even burn your house down and kill your family and even neighbors. You don't want that.

Am I saying just to drop all DIY electrical work and hire a Journeyman electrician to do all the work? NO!!! But you have GOT to do your research before you start fiddling with wiring. There are TONS of good "electrical work for dummies" sites online as well as tons of books on this exact subject at any DIY home improvement store in the country. Get a book (or two or three). Read a few good web sites. When you think you have a handle on the basics, you really need to start brushing up on the NEC 2005. That's "National Electrical Code". Frankly, 98% of what is in the code is NOT related to anything you would do. But that 2% that is can save your life. Not to mention it can SHOW you how to do what you need to do in a code approved manor.

As it turns out, the 240V leg and the "neutral" leg are the right leads to be using. But do you know WHY? It all has to do with how we get 120V power in the first place. Surprise, surprise, but the transformer that provides power to our homes is actually at 240V transformer! Not 120V.

How do we get 120V power then? That neutral line. The transformer is a special type of transformer called a center tap transformer. That means instead of two wires coming out of the transformer (one at each end of the secondary windings), there is a third wire. And it is attached right in the middle of the secondary winding. This means that if you take a volt meter and measure between the center tap and either end (I'll call them L1 and L2), you will measure 120V because it is right in the middle between (effectively) 0V and 240V. If you need 240V, then L1 to L2 will give it to you. And yes, they are both hot leads.

The up side to all this is that the "neutral" line on the ballast is actually only called that IF you are connecting to 120V. Otherwise, there are two hots. One just happens to be the wire formally known as a neutral. The other one is picked to get the right winding ratio on the primary of the ballast so you get the right voltage coming out of the secondary and going to your bulb.

There is a lot more info regarding the subject. For example, why is the neutral line bonded (aka: wired to) the earth ground at the main load center in your house? It's important and it can keep you from getting killed by extremely high voltages between L1 and earth ground (not neutral). Non of this is rocket science and if you take some time to do the research, you can safely work on your electrical devices.

dngspot · #74 08/22/2007, 03:16 PM

I have replaced my control panel with a 200 amp unit. I have also installed a smaller control panel in my garage. I have several friends and a father in law that are electricians. All have seen my work and have approved what I have done. You are correct, it is not rocket science.
I do not know the internal wiring of this transformer, but in the field that I work in, heavy equipment, I do allot of electrical work, including 12v 24v and power generation. Electrical work is something not to be afraid of, just respected.
I did do as much research on these ballast possible. You would be surprised how little information is available.

Roamer · #75 08/22/2007, 03:32 PM

That's good. Having folks in the field look over your work is always a good idea.

The original post came across (to me at least) as "I didn't know what was going on, but I picked a couple of wires and gave it a try! Nothing blew up, so I'm happy!"

The field I am in (semiconductor manufacturing) has some seriously crazy dangers involved: high voltage, high current electrical, RF, acids (including extremely pure HF), solvents, very nasty gasses (saline gas for example that which catch on fire upon contact with air) and other nasty chemicals. If everyone doesn't take safety VERY seriously around here, it is only a matter of time before someone will get killed. Thankfully, they DO take it seriously and it is a safe place to work. But some of that safety paranoia does tend to wear off!