stand liner?

[cwilson]

hello,
im going to be building my own stand soon, and i guess i was wondering what is the best way to line the inside of your satnd to prevent it from rotting when water spills/splashes. could i just use waterpfoof stain? and then just set the sump onto foamboard or the like?

any info would be great. thanks!

[Roamer]

Personally, I would go with something a bit more water proof than just the stain. I'm just about ready to build a stand for my 150 and the inside of it will be water proofed with either fiberglass resin or with epoxy resin.

The epoxy is more expensive but it is technically a "better" product. Of course, for this application, I don't really think it's improved properties really amount to anything...

After it has been coated with fiberglass resin, I'll paint it white with enamel paint to proved a nice, bright surface on the inside of my sump so I can see what I am doing inside there!

[cwilson]

thanks, ill look into that stuff!

can i find that just at menards, ace hardware, and the like?

[WinnipegDragon]

I'm planning on using marine paint myself.

[cougarguy]

I actually used a paint on rubber membrane inside my stand.

I built up the bottom of the stand 6" all the way around so if there is a spill it should be contained inside the stand and wont leak onto the carpet. I then used fiberglass tape and the waterproofing membrane on all the corners and seams in the wood. Then I covered the whole thing in 4-5 coats of the membrane and tested it out it would hold about 30 gal with my equipment in it.

The stuff I am talking about is called Redguard and Home Depot sells the stuff in the tile section.

[cwilson]

yeah, i was planning on setting up a lip around the bottom of the stand, similar to what our cougar friend did.

but i really appreciate all the great feedback and info!

any other thoughts/experiences?

[nyvp]

i used the new fiber board that they sell in Hd called hardybacker and used oil based paint to paint it. I would say its bullet proof

[Steve 926]

2 ~ 3 coats of a good quality polyurethane for floors, you can stain it first if you desire. do your self a favor & put an overflow drain in the sump. One day, hopefully never, you'll thank yourself for doing it.

Steve 926

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I've always used spar urethane. Cheap, easy, and waterproof.

[GrandeGixxer]

I am using the epoxy garage floor coating from Home Depot for my new stand.

[cwilson]

wow thanks everybody! i plan on using a small lip around the edge, and im building what will seem more like a piece of furniture than a stand (somewhat similar to last months TOTM (phocuz)), so i think i will want to water proof the entire inside. as far as the sump floor, ill get something that you would consider "bulletproof" , and for the rest ill probably use a much more affordable, easy-to-apply solution, for the rest ill just be worried about an occasional splash or humidity.

thanks again everyone!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I should note that after urethaning the insides of my stands, I usually go over all joints with a bead of silicone. I usually use 2x4 lumber to make the frame for the bottom of the stand, and whatever durable ply I have on hand for the bottom itself. I've had many, many spills and overflows; this has always contained them.

[DallasNYC]

I used several coats of polyurethane for mine. I have a 3" lip. It passed a 30 minute test. I had painted the bottom white first. And the polyurethane turned it yellow. So I would plan on unfinished. or paint the bottom after you coat it.

The one thing I wished I had done, is use something like gorilla glue when putting everything together. I don't think it would have made the joints watertight, but because of the foaming action of gorilla glue, it would have sealed up all the gaps, leaving a nice surface to paint the polyurethane on.

[Roamer]

No glue is going to fill any kind of significant gap and have any kind of strength. Not even strucural epoxy can do that. And gorilla glue is completely out of it's league. There is nothing but a foam in the gap, so no strength at all.

If you need the strength, then you need to do the wood working clean enough that you do not have gaps to fill. If you don't need the strength, then you can either use a filler on the gaps before you finish the stand, or you can caulk the seam after you finish it to seal it off.

[crt81]

I am in the process right now building my stand for my 65 gallon. The stand is almost completely finished!
So this is what I'm using- I am using this laminate famika boarding that is very thin but you glue it to the plywood that is going on the stand. It's water/ moister proof and once it's on it's on, this stuff will never peal or wear off!!! You can get it at HD and it's relatively cheap depending on what color you go with. It comes in all colors and even has some that look like stone!
Then I sealed the seams with a sealent that it typically used on plumbing jobs (like when you seal a sink). It looks clean and to me, in the long run it will save me from having to refinish the inside when moister builds up!

Try it, I promise me you won't be sorry!!!!

[Roamer]

That should work fin cr81. Just be sure you seal the seams and the edges (I'm assuming you are not doing the entire stand with this material, top to bottom, but if you are, that works too) to prevent any moisture from getting behind it over time. The insides of our stand tend to be VERY humid if they have doors on them!

[Tokey]

I built the stand for my 150gl tank and I lined the bottom and up the sides to the bottom of my doors which is 10" high with pond liner that way if I spill any water no big deal I just wipe it up I also made it able to hold 65gls of water before it will spill onto the floor. Pond liner is cheap and it is a lot more water proof than any thing you can paint on your wood.

[RobinsonFam1]

in plumbing departments, and suppliers you can get shower pan liners for custom shower floors. much like pond liner. works great.
i use this on my nano stands that I build for othr people. works great.

redgard i would not use. it always seems sticky and if the substrate is not very accepting it WILL peel off.

[apistomaster]

Originally posted by Roamer
No glue is going to fill any kind of significant gap and have any kind of strength. Not even strucural epoxy can do that. And gorilla glue is completely out of it's league. There is nothing but a foam in the gap, so no strength at all.

If you need the strength, then you need to do the wood working clean enough that you do not have gaps to fill. If you don't need the strength, then you can either use a filler on the gaps before you finish the stand, or you can caulk the seam after you finish it to seal it off.

I agree with you regarding bonding wood together but to say that structural epoxy can't handle gaps consider this:
Many times during structural reinforced concrete construction a piece of critical rebar gets left out. The missing member, let's say a dowel bar, is placed in a slightly over sized diameter hole and the annular space is completely filled with structural epoxy adhesive. The resulting bond is stronger than than even 5000 psi concrete and grade 60 steel if sufficient bonded area X length is enough to achieve the full development strength of the rebar. The surrounding concrete will fail before the high strength epoxy bond. A percentage are tested to failure to verify that the fixes met specifications in critical connections..
I have been there and done it many thousands of times as a licensed special inspector of reinforced and prestressed/post-tensioned concrete structures in Earthquake Zones III/IV with thirty years of experience.

The key thing to keep in mind is knowing your materials and their strengths and weaknesses.
Despite many claims otherwise, no one has quite achieved the invention of the universal "miracle in a can" adhesive.

[Roamer]

apistomaster,

Trust me, I LOVE structural epoxy. It is the best adhesive on the market for MANY different applications. But gluing up a stand out of solid wood and gluing in rebar in concrete are very different applications.

(and yes, I know I am telling you something you already know...) In the case of concrete, you only have steel in areas that will be subject to tension forces. So gluing in that rebar to 5000 psi concrete (compressive rating) means the concrete around it can ONLY take about 500 psi in tension. The epoxy can easily do a lot more than 500 psi, so having the concrete fail before the glue does is no real surprise.

In wood working, if I had to put something together and use sloppy, crappy joints, I would definitely want to use something like structural epoxy to give it the best chance at a long life. But if I wanted to absolute maximum strength, the only way to do it is machine my wood pieces correctly so that I am not trying to fill gaps with the glue.

Heck, look at composite materials (spars on some jet aircraft for example). They go through HUGE expenses using vacuum bagging and autoclaving to make parts that have the absolute MINIMAL amount of resin in the part. Why? Excess resin over what is required to adhere the fibers together adds nothing but weight and thickness.

Structurally, resin just isn't that strong compared to many materials. But when used correctly, that strength isn't needed anyway as the loads are carried by the items being bonded together and not directly by the resin (again, structure strength vs. adhesive bonding strength)

[kuramura]

I have used spar urethane 2 years ago on my stand and looks solid

[apistomaster]

"(and yes, I know I am telling you something you already know...) In the case of concrete, you only have steel in areas that will be subject to tension forces. So gluing in that rebar to 5000 psi concrete (compressive rating) means the concrete around it can ONLY take about 500 psi in tension. The epoxy can easily do a lot more than 500 psi, so having the concrete fail before the glue does is no real surprise."

You are correct that concrete's tensile strength is ~10% of it's compressive strength but the bond developed in the case I cited must be equal to or greater than the 60KSI yield strength of the rebar. This is accomplished by the TOTAL square inches of the bond;
X-section area X length so the forces resisting tension are equal to or greater than the strength of the rebar.(development length) An order of magnitude by of a factor well over ten times the inherent UNIT tensile strength of the concrete. This is possible due the large area being bonded and because it becomes monolithic. Bond is distributed over a large surface area. But we digress from the thread.

I build my stands out of wood using screws, glue and snug correctly fitting pieces. I completely agree with you that adhesives do not function properly as both space fillers and adhesives. The bonds are the results of ionic attraction and by definition are on the molecular level. More adhesive than is absolutely necessary contributes nothing to the strength of the bond.

[DB06]

I used about 5 coats of good grade latex paint on the inside of the stand and then finished it off with 3 coats of minwax polycrylic .

On the outside, Minwax oak stain and 3 coats of polyurethane again (I skinned mine with 3/4 inch oak.

H20 just beads off of it now--like a new car.

[apistomaster]

I bet it is a beautiful finish and one you will be glad you put the effort into in the years ahead of exposure to salt water.

[danskim]

Would you say polycrylic is better than the helmsman spar polyurethane?