Ich treatment for anyone who wants their fish to live

[luke33]

I would suggest anyone that is a newbie to not believe the ignorance in some of these treatment methods. This is a worthless thread that should be removed from lack of knowledge. I'm done with it.

[tmz]

The freshwater dip is recommended when the infestation appears severe and a judgement is made that immediate relief is needed. This is especially true if there is labored breathing. The amyloodinium will destroy gill tissue rapidly and it is prudent to kill as much of it as possible ,quickly. Short well managed dips put less stress onthe fish than the infection does. Copper kills parasites in the water not while the in the fish.

[triggerfish1976]

It has been proven that FW dips have very little effect on amyloodinium.

[triggerfish1976]

Originally posted by luke33
I would suggest anyone that is a newbie to not believe the ignorance in some of these treatment methods. This is a worthless thread that should be removed from lack of knowledge. I'm done with it.

If you know the perfect methods than why don't you enlighten us. There has been some misleading information but there has also been some effective methods as well.

[Engine 7]

I am planning on buying a powder blue tang and was really interested in reading this thread when i saw it. Powder Blue Tangs often get ick when introduced to a new tank.
I found this entire thread useless and immature. Nowhere in here did I see any scientific fact. Nowhere have I seen anybody of any authority state that he has done any studies or had success with any treatment backed up with fact.
What I did see was a bunch of kids that have a little bit of past knowledge based on reading goofy threads like this one. A little knowledge does not go a long way unless you are watching Jeapordy or palying Trivial Persuit.
Picking on other people because you dont agree with their views or you just plain like argueing is a waste of our time. This thread should be moved to the lounge where it belongs.
If I ever see another thread started or participated in by the 3 or 4 main members of this arguement/thread I will ignore their views and look for information elsewhere.

Sorry, but this was a huge waste of time...

[superedge88]

I agree Engine 7

[PhillyD123]

My final reply ojn this thread as I fear I may have done a lot more harm than good. I have heard a lot more treatment options right at the end. Interesting as I am not the only one who simpoly states stuff they have researched which I do not doubt never have. Curious I am chastised. Regardless I do not care. If several of my briefer posts did not make since it was because they were aimed at the myth buster who rather than answer in seperate replies simply edited his single reply four or five times. Why I do not know. I do not have a degree in marine bioligy and never claimed it like everyone else simply took knowledge form extensive research and spouted it off. Despite what others think I have only read one reply with backing. My recomendation was simply an all around assualt on "ich" Hit it in more spots and it will help combat it more. We are all rookies in this. I Am yet to see a text book for reefkeeping that was worth its weight. Or a college course. If there was one I would be there. As far as my grammar you work a twelve hour grave drink a fifth of Yagermeister and type It does not go well and will not be repeated. I have heard several replies I will take into consideration the next scourge I get heck.I may even buy one sick fish to put in with atest group to tryevery option I come across. for those who feel this post is worthless read it again it just opened a bundle of doors which was my intent. I will let you know in a few months how the ich tests go. And yes I will put them into the proper format for those who can only respect that and laymans terms for the rest of us.

[Freed]

Originally posted by PhillyD123
Well perhaps it is the fact that I have a nursing background and am a student of history but the freshwater dip copper and quarntine are not what I would call a good idea. Before medical care was a science, People were bled out whenever sick. This was a very crude attempt to cure any ailment barring blood poisoning. It stressed out the patient and weakened them further. Freshwater dips, Copper treatments and quarantines along with lowering the salinity are all comparable to bleeding someone out. Especially since Ich is usaully brought on by stress. Gee lets stress the fish out more it will get better. Stop one of the stages in the life cycle of Ich and boost the fishes natural immune system. Not a scorched earth/water policy.

How can you compare QT with hypo or copper with "bleeding out a human? Hypo and copper have been PROVEN to kill ich but they don't nuke the fish and make their hair fall out as you suggest chemo does to the whole human body. Chemo does not nuke everything in your body, it destroys the cells in your body that reproduce quickly, i.e. tumor cells and cancer cells. Chemo also kills the other fast reporducing cells in your body such as hair folicles, the cells in the lining of the throat and mouth, etc. I know this because I have a very long time close friend that is going thru chemo right now. Please do more research here as you say you are in the "medical profession" and it doesn't sound like you know what you are talking about here either. I would say put the fifth down and grow up so you can figure out what you are talking about before trying to make a feable attempt at trying to sound intelligent.

After your rant of misinformation and pathetic knowledge of ich and QT you were then given info on QT, hypo and copper and then state "Anyway all the discussions research prove that "Ich" Is an ever present part of every tank". This is totally false and I don't know where you get your info but I have never seen any info from the reputable and knowledgeable marine aquarists that frequent RC that can even come close to "backing you up" on this. Ich can be treated and KILLED in QT with at least two of the proven methods, hypo and copper, before ever being introduced into the main tank. Please do more research here as well.

I have always put my fish thru QT and have treated with hypo when ich was noticed. No further ich have ever been seen in my main tanks since, even after "stressing out" the tank from water changes, cleaning the algae off the glass, doing the dishes, moving the live rock around, temp swings, drastic pH swings, sweeping the carpet, etc. You should really do more research here as well as ich is a parasite and if taken care of prior to intoducing the fish into the main tank, no matter how much stress you do to the tank or the inhabitants, you won't see ich afterwards.

You also state that the natural way to get rid of ich is cleaner gobys? What's gonna clean the ich off of them? Are they going to be able to get the microscopic ich cysts, etc. cleaned from the gills of fish? NO. Cleaner fish, etc. are good for picking dead cells, scales, clinging parasites other than ich but including the larger ich that can be seen off the outer portion of the fish and sometimes in the mouth. They don't or can't easily clean anything in the gills.

The reason most people have problems with your views are that in your very fist post you didn't even ask for anyone's input. You didn't ask for anyone's knowledge or for any info. You didn't even ask for a discussion. The only thing you did was rant about yourself being a former nurse and a student of history. So? Who cares? You also ranted about QT, hypo and copper are not the way to go.

Then you stated how QT, hypo, copper stressed the fish out. This is not true. Please do more research here as well.

You also state in one of your rants ""Ich" is not like a bacterial infection. You can not throw a pill at it and it will disappear. It is more like a virus let it run its course and be fought off." Where are you getting your info from? Bacteria can be killed with antiobotics. You should know this from your "medical" background. Ich can be compared to a bacteria as it CAN BE killed with a pill(call that pill hypo, call that pill copper). Ich is not like a virus, which you may or may not know, cannot be killed with a pill.

All I can say is put the bottle down, soak up some of the knowledge you are being given here. Discount the input you are getting from your "Dr." friends and help your fish fight the ich instead of watching them die from it. I am thru here but I can't wait to see how the alcohol responds to this.

[Freed]

And oh, by the way, threatening people with bodily harm or inviting people to fight with you is a sure way to get banned from RC. Not that you or the alcohol care though.

[Freed]

Philly, please don't bother me with your futile attempt at PMs. Come to the thread and at least try to understand the FACTS that everyone is trying to instill in you.

[PhillyD123]

Argon please give me a detailed regimen. Of your usage of copper and formalin. Freed just got me a sponsor. We will have a six month study all paid. Guided by a marine bioligist and paid for by a doctor who tragically gets a kick out of "wannabe scientists who believe they can diagnose alcoholism." Everything else he stated is not acceptable for this or any other forum. 100 tanks for a 100 fish test group. As close to identical water perimeters and fish and surroundings. Sadly many a yellow tailed damsel will be dissected in the name of science. and sadly a good pecentage will not be treated. I got exactly what I wanted from this post. Anyone else who does not feel doctors are incapable of research on fish and thinks with more than their brainstem please pm me a detailed care regimen. Freshwater dips, copper treatments, formalin and all other mainstream treatments. In your opinion is quarantine effective alone and am I misinterpreting when I am assuming you are going tank to tank. This would break the life cycle. Or are you simply removing the fish from the rest? If so the this can not be tested. It is unfortunate so many emotions were manipulated so I could do this but thank you regardless. I am dead serious about this. If no one replies with something that has worked for us to research. I will simply have to follow manufactuers directions and what I can find online but I fear I will be a bit busy setting up tanks. You all rock! Oh and brush up on your latin because a condition was every finding for these "wannabes" (This offends me too) and every journal will all be in latin. If anyone knows of a good translator online please pass it around. The end and I pmed you because I am done because of yourself and a few others I got what I wanted Oh my psycholigist friend would like me to inform you that mistaking opinions for facts is a sign of an inferiority complex

[Freed]

Originally posted by PhillyD123
As far as my grammar you work a twelve hour grave drink a fifth of Yagermeister and type It does not go well and will not be repeated.

Need I say more? And please don't put words in my mouth, they came from yours.

[PhillyD123]

Please freeze this post RC or get rid of it as i will be busy and unable to defend myself for a while.

[Freed]

And where did anyone diagnose anyone else with alcoholism? I think you have other issues that you need to take care of.

[triggerfish1976]

Originally posted by PhillyD123
Argon please give me a detailed regimen. Of your usage of copper and formalin. Freed just got me a sponsor. We will have a six month study all paid. Guided by a marine bioligist and paid for by a doctor who tragically gets a kick out of "wannabe scientists who believe they can diagnose alcoholism." Everything else he stated is not acceptable for this or any other forum. 100 tanks for a 100 fish test group. As close to identical water perimeters and fish and surroundings. Sadly many a yellow tailed damsel will be dissected in the name of science. and sadly a good pecentage will not be treated. I got exactly what I wanted from this post. Anyone else who does not feel doctors are incapable of research on fish and thinks with more than their brainstem please pm me a detailed care regimen. Freshwater dips, copper treatments, formalin and all other mainstream treatments. In your opinion is quarantine effective alone and am I misinterpreting when I am assuming you are going tank to tank. This would break the life cycle. Or are you simply removing the fish from the rest? If so the this can not be tested. It is unfortunate so many emotions were manipulated so I could do this but thank you regardless. I am dead serious about this. If no one replies with something that has worked for us to research. I will simply have to follow manufactuers directions and what I can find online but I fear I will be a bit busy setting up tanks. You all rock! Oh and brush up on your latin because a condition was every finding for these "wannabes" (This offends me too) and every journal will all be in latin. If anyone knows of a good translator online please pass it around. The end and I pmed you because I am done because of yourself and a few others I got what I wanted Oh my psycholigist friend would like me to inform you that mistaking opinions for facts is a sign of an inferiority complex

You might want to master english before you jump into latin since I have no idea what you just said here.

[Freed]

It's the Yager talking. I'm sure it was the Dr.s in his head talking too.

[loosbrew]

this is silly.. :P

[Freed]

I dotn thnik thre wsa any mrit to the orginal psot in teh frist plce. Oops taht msut be teh wetar taklin.

[Neptune777]

Originally posted by Engine 7
I am planning on buying a powder blue tang and was really interested in reading this thread when i saw it. Powder Blue Tangs often get ick when introduced to a new tank.
I found this entire thread useless and immature. Nowhere in here did I see any scientific fact. Nowhere have I seen anybody of any authority state that he has done any studies or had success with any treatment backed up with fact.
What I did see was a bunch of kids that have a little bit of past knowledge based on reading goofy threads like this one. A little knowledge does not go a long way unless you are watching Jeapordy or palying Trivial Persuit.
Picking on other people because you dont agree with their views or you just plain like argueing is a waste of our time. This thread should be moved to the lounge where it belongs.
If I ever see another thread started or participated in by the 3 or 4 main members of this arguement/thread I will ignore their views and look for information elsewhere.

Sorry, but this was a huge waste of time...

FYI, fish (Powder Blue Tangs included) will only get ich if the parasite was already present in your system or came as a hitchhiker on the new fish. It does not lay around for a host to appear....it has a limited life cycle (well documented and proven) and cannot survive in a system if hosts are not present.

Ich is no where near as tricky and mysterious as everyone makes it out to be......Hyposalinity works and ich will die...They will not evolve quickly enough to change a very important key factor about inverts (they cannot regulate the water levels in their tissue)....I have an Achilles Tang (very fragile fish IMO) that went through 8weeks of QT/hypo and did great and has been ich free ever since!

[Freed]

I concur...r

[tmz]

Triggerfish1976, re; It has been proven that fw dip does little to affect amyloodinium. Thanks for poining this out. Is their a piece I can read on this aspect? Is there a treatment protocol that can be used before the copper treatment to kill parasites more quickly? Formalin dip?

[triggerfish1976]

FW dips are not a good treatment for Amyloodinium because it generally digs deep within the gill tissue thus is not effected by the FW dips since this treatment generally is only effective on the individual parasites on the outermost tissue. This is also why I believe that FW dips are not effective on Crypto because it only rids the fish of some of some of the parasites leaving others to eventually surface in the tank.
I could link several articles on this subject but the problem is every study that has been done on FW dipping are so inconclusive and show so many different variables I find them somewhat useless. I know that many people on RC only want to believe what scientific studies show but keep in mind that these test are all done in controlled environments and limited test subjects that never cover a wide enough range of variables in order to be the be all end all of proper husbandry.

[triggerfish1976]

Originally posted by tmz
Triggerfish1976, re; It has been proven that fw dip does little to affect amyloodinium. Thanks for poining this out. Is their a piece I can read on this aspect? Is there a treatment protocol that can be used before the copper treatment to kill parasites more quickly? Formalin dip?

One other thing, everyone keeps bringing up the idea of having to pre-treat a fish before it gets proper meds. via formalin or FW dips. I can see this being needed if a fish is experiencing an outbreak in a main display and then has to be pulled for treatment but why would anyone need to do this with a new fish? Are you all buying fish that have noticeable signs of infestation while still at the LFS or are you just dipping them for the sake of doing so because if it is the later then you're not doing the fish any justice since you are probably only getting rid of maybe 10% of any pathogen that the dip would effect.

[DgenR8]

[chimp]