HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trying to save one fish and now killing another!!!!

reefman13 · #1 06/09/2007, 09:18 PM

I bought an Atlantic Blue Tang- about 3" (please don't yell, it was to save him/her from a almost sure death) from PETCO. She/he is covered in Ich. So I bought the PimaFix stuff to help get rid of her ich, and I got home added the recomended 4 1/2 teaspoons of the stuff to the tank, and she doesn't seem to be showing any problem with it, however, I have a O.Clownfish (was happy) he is now swimming side ways and right at the top right hand corner of the tank. I need help what do I do?!?!?!?! She doesn't seem to be doing to well, what can I do? What did I do to premote this?

Any recomendations on other Ich remedies? Or something to sure the clown?

Kaos · #2 06/09/2007, 09:28 PM

I would suggest a w/c (about 20-30% if you have it premixed).

To get rid of the ich on the tang the best way will be to quarinteen and treat that way. There are several ways to treat it in a sepereate tank. You can try hypo. salinity, copper, or other meds. You can also feed a highly nutritious diet supplemented w/ garlic.

reefman13 · #3 06/09/2007, 09:33 PM

Well, as of right now I cannot setup a QT, but I will do a water change.

ahullsb · #4 06/09/2007, 09:36 PM

If you can run hypo. A rubbermaid container a heater and a pump is about all you need. If they don't make it I would suggest letting the tank go fallow for 6-8 weeks and get rid of the ich that way. Good luck thoough!

Mikigo · #5 06/09/2007, 09:49 PM

Agree, water change to get rid of med as much as possible. If you can't Q the fish, feed your tank in small amount sereral times a day. They will fight the Ich themselves. Good luck.

three-spot · #6 06/09/2007, 10:10 PM

Um... wow...

You bought a knowingly sick fish and introduced it to your tank?! What did you do to promote this?!

You should know that any newly bought tang will almost surely get ich, well that's what my expieriece has been.... Tangs are sometimes reffered to as "ich magnets", for a reason.

Sorry about that... kinda ticked me off a bit...

Firstly:

Quote:

PimaFix has unique antifungal and antibacterial properties that prevent the development of resistant strains of disease-causing organisms. MelaFix is an all-natural botanical remedy that treats bacterial infections in as little as 4 days. Also heals open wounds, ulcers, and damaged fins.

Ich is a parasite... not a fungus, not a bacteria... thus pimafix will not help you with ich.

Secondly, Quarantine all new arivals, and you won't have any problems with parasites being spread to other fish, plus you will actually be able to use an effective treatment (well, atleast a scientifically proven one) without endangering inverts, the bio-filter, etc. Not to mention the fish that are not sick.

Thirdly, Please do not buy "rescue fish"... and don't waste your time buying a fish that's sick and then treating it. While it is true that you may be saving that *particular fish*, you are not helping thet species as a whole... what you are doing is showing a demand for that species, then the retailer orders more of that species, then distrubuter, does the same, then more are collected from the ocean. It works the same way for incompetent retailers, if you give a store your buisness, you give them profit... in turn more fish for you to "rescue" at petco!!!!!!

Fourthly: Read this, and if you want, it would be a good idea to read some of the other twenty something pages on ich linked to on that page:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm

If you can't use a quarantine... I'll just put it out there that when I got my first tang, it got ich in my display (no quarantine when I was starting out)... I used Kich ich... that tang, and one of the two clowns are still with me today... that being said, I should also say that this is not a scientifically proven defence against ich.

Also, I would recomend reading up on some other diseases to, so that your prepared in the future... You don't want to be wasting fish. Velvet is another common parasite... might want to start there.

As for you clown... I'm assuming the ich spread to it? Or what is it's symptoms?

Again, sorry if I was harsh on you... but would you agree it seems wierd for someone with 1000+posts to not know about ich?

fishyvet · #7 06/09/2007, 10:20 PM

A QT can be as simple as a rubber maid tote form wal-mart. I have an 18g one I used as a hospital tank and now I store tank supplies in. They are super cheap. You have good intension attempting to rescue the fish but three-spot is right on about just encouraging distributors to order fish they know nothing about or how to take care of. I know it wasn't your idea to have it spread to your other fish and tank but what you need to do now is get them out and treat them, it sounds like you have a bad case.

Let us know what you decide to do. We are here to help you and your fish. Good luck.

alan214 · #8 06/09/2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by three-spot
Again, sorry if I was harsh on you... but would you agree it seems wierd for someone with 1000+posts to not know about ich?

And a card-carrying member of the Tang Police...

reefman13 · #9 06/09/2007, 10:36 PM

Well, I have done about a 20% change as of now, cleaned out my Fuval, and I am going to wait. And three spot- harsh but very informative. I am going to run out to my local other LFS and buy a 20L if I can't get my friends 12g nano-cube (I think too small for a tang QT. But any way..........

Clown is seeming to be very slow moving, and is like near to floating at the top of the water. He did seem to perk up a bit when I added a fresh new batch of SW. I am going to give it 10 more mins then do another change and then leave it and wait till tomorrow.

I am not familiar with this "hypo" people are recomending. Can someone explain? I am asuming all I willl need for this QT is a heater and a power head? Anything else. Should I try to find the garlic feeder/dropper thingy? Is it a good idea?

AquaReeferMan · #10 06/10/2007, 02:47 AM

Wow.

Here is all you need to know about ich(livespan, treatments). I suggest reading them. One more thing, did a member of the Tang Police just put a hippo tang in a 50g???

part 1:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Part 2:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

waterfaller1 · #11 06/10/2007, 05:52 AM

Hypo~ http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html

reefing102 · #12 06/10/2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AquaReeferMan
Wow.

One more thing, did a member of the Tang Police just put a hippo tang in a 50g???

He added an Atlantic Blue Tang - In my opinion the atlantic version of the yellow tang but blue in color

reefman13 · #13 06/10/2007, 08:36 AM

This tang IS NOT STAYING IN MY SYSTEM I never had any intention of that. This tang is exactly what reefing102 stated it was except it grows to 12" long.

I am going out today to get an NC12 for the clown and I am going to set it up with a clean piece of LR and then I am going to out the clown in that tank (its a little small but she'll be okay) and then I am going to do the hypo salinity method on my big tank. As well as another 25-30% water change.

Fishvet- Thanks for your kind words3
Waterfaller1- Thanks for the great link
Aqureeferman- Thanks for the links

tkeracer619 · #14 06/10/2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by three-spot

Thirdly, Please do not buy "rescue fish"... and don't waste your time buying a fish that's sick and then treating it. While it is true that you may be saving that *particular fish*, you are not helping thet species as a whole... what you are doing is showing a demand for that species, then the retailer orders more of that species, then distrubuter, does the same, then more are collected from the ocean. It works the same way for incompetent retailers, if you give a store your buisness, you give them profit... in turn more fish for you to "rescue" at petco!!!!!!

I don't wanna start the petco debacle in here, but I will say that it doesn't work like that. Petco does not order fish, they are thrown at them via their wholesaler. Regardless if the fish died in the tank, was purchased, or even still in stock...... they will ship another to the retail location. In a mom and pops location or even a decent store your theory would be correct, but we are talking about petco. The number one marine animal killer.

Save that fish from his sure demise, I am sure that fish thanks you. I saved a few fish from them, hope you didn't pay full price, its easy to haggle them on their fish since thursday they will have more anyways regardless of stock.

kuoka · #15 06/10/2007, 02:31 PM

If you can catch the tang, I'd give him a fresh water bath right away. That kills ich on contact. Good luck.

CeeGee · #16 06/10/2007, 04:33 PM

I don't think three spot was being harsh just speaking the truth. Someone needed to say it.

The internet can kinda come across in a bad way.

ReefNutPA · #17 06/11/2007, 12:50 AM

FWIW... both PimaFix and MelaFix greatly reduce the amount of oxygen in the water. Most likely this is what caused an adverse reaction with your clownfish. When using either, make SURE you drop a few airlines in the tank beforehand.

Tom

AquaReeferMan · #18 06/11/2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefing102
He added an Atlantic Blue Tang - In my opinion the atlantic version of the yellow tang but blue in color

My bad, I quickly read over it and only processed the Blue Tang part.

Philwd · #19 06/11/2007, 01:21 AM

Fresh water dips(match temp and ph to your tank) can help relieve the fish's discomfort and buy you time but will not knock off all parasites. The remedies discussed earlier, hypo and copper, are the only 2 proven remedies. Getting your fish to eat is very important and garlic will help with appetites. But garlic does not cure ich.

Louie3 · #20 06/11/2007, 02:24 AM

I think petco isnt as bad as my local petland , 14 clams under 20w of flourescents, 4 big pwder blues in one section, just horrible to see it

bmk · #21 06/11/2007, 05:44 AM

Hi
Dont mean to hijack the thread but, Philwd, you mentioned fresh water dips, do you mean 'fresh' as in no salt, if so how do you match the ph. Sorry if it seems a daft question, but had to ask.

Barry

TheMcs · #22 06/11/2007, 08:22 AM

I wouldn't use any medication that you add to the water if you intend on having a reef. If it's effective it will kill all/most invert (ich is an invert). If it says it's reef safe then it's not effective against ich.
Feeding Metronidizole (mix in with frozen food) is extremely effective, especially with used with Focus (both Seachem products). I've had 100% success rate with them.

ralphie16 · #23 06/11/2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tkeracer619
I don't wanna start the petco debacle in here, but I will say that it doesn't work like that. Petco does not order fish, they are thrown at them via their wholesaler.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

cristhiam · #24 06/11/2007, 11:23 AM

Don't do hypo on yout big tank, it will kill your LR, LS, and inverts causing a lot more problems from die off. Use a QT like sugested.

spleen93 · #25 06/11/2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMcs
Feeding Metronidizole (mix in with frozen food) is extremely effective, especially with used with Focus (both Seachem products). I've had 100% success rate with them.

that's an interesting idea. Metronidazole is active against both anaerobic bacteria and protozoans - and Cryptocaryon irritans (ich) is a protozoan parasite. It might be another form of treatment that might be easier to do than copper, formalin, or hyposalinity ... assuming that you can get the fish to eat the metronidazole since theoretically, it shouldn't wipe out anything else in the tank (well, potentially your denitrifying bacteria, I suppose but the dose should be small enough that it shouldn't affect the rest of the tank systemically)

Spleen