Just Fish looking good

Gordonious · #1 05/12/2007, 12:18 PM

I went in Just Fish today and things weren't looking to bad. Didn't see a single disease or dead fish in the salt isle(didn't look at freshwater), things looked very clean, they had some of the hugest star fish I have ever seen in an LFS. There was also two pistol shrimp/goby pairs. One of which was really bright. They had what looked like almost full grown bamboo sharks, Chiloscyllium plagiosum I believe, as well as eggs.(one of my life goals is to own a home where I can keep a small shark tank) Overall things seem to be continually improving over the last year or so.

Jon

PS since I was driving by I also dropped in Fish bowl:-P Lady never said a word to me or Steph. Good thing though is it seems as if they have given up on corals.

DamnPepShrimp · #2 05/12/2007, 08:34 PM

Just fish usually has some nice fish, but I always see a dead or dying fish most of the time. Nothing that is out of hand, but nothing great. They are too pricey most of the time for me. I sometimes wonder with their prices, how they stay in business. Where did they keep a full grown bamboo? How big do they get? I thought they got to 3 feet? I too would love a shark and ray tank! Someday, when I get a house, an in wall room divider setup would be cool, I'd also need one for my angels and a reef, haha 3 huge tanks, I better hit the lottery!

pmvalenti · #3 05/16/2007, 01:06 PM

they have a circle shaped barrel thats like 4 feet in diameter and about 3 feet high right in front off the store, i think she said it was 250 gallons

DamnPepShrimp · #4 05/16/2007, 05:20 PM

That is what I was afraid they had them in, full grown bamboo sharks get around 3 feet! They must be cramped in there! I am considering getting a coral cat shark, they only get 2 feet. I would upgrade to at least a 240g, but a custom 300g would be better (96x30x24). Who knows though, that is a lot of money, at least I'd only need one tank for my fish and reef!

Gordonious · #5 05/16/2007, 06:23 PM

Actually they are probably fine if that is 250 gallons, especially just for holding purposes. It's also not a standard 250 tank like pmvalenti said it's a circular barrel. I couldn't tell what species they were because I was in and out. (was the gfs birthday and she was waiting in the car...)

Coral cats are pretty cool. I don't see them offered as often in our area LFSs, but I am sure you could find one no problem. What do you mean by only having one tank for your fish and reef? You know you probably couldn't keep the shark with any other animals. Coral cats, if you mean mamoratus(over 100 species in the the family of catsharks) are very active at night. Much more active and would probably burry any LR, coral, or animals with the substrate. Any sharp rock in the tank will probably scrape there delicate body as they swim by. They also will even bite at large eels, so no fish is safe.

I suppose we can only both dream for now...

kaptken · #6 05/16/2007, 09:48 PM

You might think of building a donut shaped shallow tank just off the floor for the shark to swim in, round and round without having to turn around , against a current of water jets. sandy bottom. then in the center of the donut put a reef tank. but you might need a little japanese garden type bridge to step over the shark donut raceway to get to the reef.. good basement project.

yes , just fish are making steady progress at upgrading their store. it's a pretty tough job to wiggle new tanks in, while still running the store with livestock to pay the bills. I have a tough time keeping up with my few tanks,. Don't know how store owners keep up with so many.

Gordonious · #7 05/16/2007, 10:51 PM

Well Ken... Just Fish doesn't have a single tank, including their displays, that are a full as yours.(actually I don't know if I've ever seen tanks that full, lol)

That would look pretty cool Ken. Though power heads would drive most, if not all sharks nuts. The water jets would have to be plumbed to equipment far away or part of an overflow, perhaps from the reef. Metals and spinning magnets are big no nos. From what I have read even an HOB filter with a spinning magnet in it should not be used. Would drive their sixth sense up the wall.(can't us rebar in the walls either) The way I plan to minimize noise in the tank is to use an overflow both into and out of the tank and keep the equipment in another room. Most of the smaller sharks like cat sharks and bamboos don't need super high flow for swimming.

I really would like to see some better rock at Just Fish though. I didn't even bother looking my last trip because usually the rock looks like expensive base rock.

Jon

kaptken · #8 05/16/2007, 11:18 PM

Yeah, got to admit, my 75 is overgrown. just had a die off on a couple really big hydnophoras. not sure what happened. just rotted away from the top growing out of the water. might have gotten some bacteria or fungus from the air while i was mulching a couple truck loads of pine needles in the front yard, with the door open. lots of dust. oh well, more room for other stuff now.

well the jets wouldn't have to be strong. just lots of low flow nozzles from the sump pump. like a tuna tank. just keeps the water flowing round the tank. plastic bulkheads for nozzles. and you wouldn't need whirling magnet power heads to confuse their ampullae of lorenzini. one could make the raceway out of plywood, encapsulated in epoxy, and or lined in pond liner, or that fiberglass shower stall bead board, with epoxied seams. lots of ways to build it. it would only be a foot deep in water.
I wish I had a basement,...

alex4fun · #9 05/21/2007, 09:49 PM

just fish sucks!!!! a frag of yellow polys $50 LOL AND like 10 sick fishes in the store.

Gordonious · #10 05/21/2007, 10:41 PM

Alex be nice now... When did you see 10 sick fish? They have had a good amount of sick fish in the past, but try to find a supplier that can give you affordable prices that you can mark up and make a profit on that will give you 100% healthy fish 100% of the time.

They are an LFS trying to make a living. They don't have a massive warehouse behind their store to qt things in before they put them up for sale and there is no way they could afford to do that.

If you think Just Fish sucks you obviously haven't been to too many LFSs or just think that everything sucks.

kaptken · #11 05/21/2007, 11:28 PM

DITTO!! 10 dead out of hundreds of live ones is pretty good. shipping is very hard on the critters. LFS have little control over that. extra packaging care and speedy shipping is costing more these days. which adds to the price.

Alex, how many critters have died or will die in your tank? Even after you have picked the best of survivors and hurried them home? It's a tough life being a live caught fish. Snatched from your happy reef, traveling half way around the world in a cup of water sealed in a plastic bag, in the dark, hoping for a good home . only to find a reefer with bad filtration. oh well, belly up...

I look at shopping as a fish rescue mission. bring them home and raise them to their old age. even the sick ones heal and survive if the tank is healthy. It's all about water quality, filtration, habitat and food.

If you don't like or can't afford retail prices, there is always trading or swapping in the club. plenty of alternatives.

IwannaClarion · #12 05/26/2007, 12:48 PM

its one thing to have a few dead "filler" fish, like damsles and the like, but last time i went in there there were 2 dead semilarvatus butterflies (prices at $150 a pop), and a deceased full color changed emp angel (priced at almost $300). not to mention alot of the other more expensive fish (a $200+ blue ring angel comes to mind) that had bacterial infections (cloudy eye). having those kinds of livestock losses should be unacceptable... especially when you consider the cost of those fish the store had to swallow when they perish

its true about their frag/coral pricing as well. they wanted $30 for a single mushroom. at TFP, you can get a whole mushroom rock for $30, and singles go for $6. maybe its the free bubble algae that comes with each coral purchase that makes them more expensive than any other LFS (their coral tanks seem overrun with the stuff)

and what gets me the most is they offer absolutely NO warrenty. hell, even PetKare offers a 24 hour return policy on their salt stuff if it dies. a purchase from Just Fish could die on the walk back to your car and they wouldnt refund your money

all in all i know its hard to run a sucessful business, but thats no excuse for sick and dying livestock and outrageous prices. i think they could do a bit better

alex4fun · #13 05/26/2007, 01:55 PM

i undestand having sick fishes in that kind of bussines it normal.BUT , dont put them in your display tanks where everybody is going to see them , keep them in a quarantine tank in the back,or away from the public view cuz unfortunately FIRST IMPRESSION COUNTS...and about the corals i think they are OVERPRICED!!!

alex4fun · #14 05/26/2007, 01:56 PM

WAY OVERPRICED!!!!!!!

RBTA · #15 05/26/2007, 05:41 PM

Ok. I guess I'll play the devil's advocate.
Just because a fish is expensive and rare doesn't mean that its immune to every disease. That can actually be one of the reasons why they are so expensive. Any fish can get sick and die. Any fish can come into the store with a disease, and a lot of times fish don't recover from that because its too much stress. I'm saying all of this because I have first-hand experience with al of this, I've been working at Petstores for over a year and know very well the ways of wholesale fish selling and shipping.

You have to be fair to the pet stores, they don't know what condition the fish is going to come in, and with shipping, there are a ton of casualties. Theres plenty of DOA and some fish are so stressed out from shipping that they catch sicknesses.

Now regarding putting them in back in quarentine out of sight. That would be ideal. But what if they don't have the space for it? What if their quarentine tank is fully stocked already? You also have to figure in the cost of upkeeping it along with the medicine, and depending on how sick the fish is, its not always worth it. And for a local store to be able to afford all of this for treatment for fish is extremely hard. With the rising utilities, rent, employee wages, and then paying for the products/fish themselves, sometimes its impossible to do everything possible to give the fish the best help. Its sad, but its also true. I think before you can comment on their fish it would be nice to learn the condition they come in and the ability they have to treat them.
In more cases then one, its not the fault of the LFS for sick fish. In most cases they come in sick.
I don't want to come off rude, I'm just stating how I see it.

ronert · #16 05/27/2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RBTA
Ok. I guess I'll play the devil's advocate.
Just because a fish is expensive and rare doesn't mean that its immune to every disease. That can actually be one of the reasons why they are so expensive. Any fish can get sick and die. Any fish can come into the store with a disease, and a lot of times fish don't recover from that because its too much stress. I'm saying all of this because I have first-hand experience with al of this, I've been working at Petstores for over a year and know very well the ways of wholesale fish selling and shipping.

You have to be fair to the pet stores, they don't know what condition the fish is going to come in, and with shipping, there are a ton of casualties. Theres plenty of DOA and some fish are so stressed out from shipping that they catch sicknesses.

Now regarding putting them in back in quarentine out of sight. That would be ideal. But what if they don't have the space for it? What if their quarentine tank is fully stocked already? You also have to figure in the cost of upkeeping it along with the medicine, and depending on how sick the fish is, its not always worth it. And for a local store to be able to afford all of this for treatment for fish is extremely hard. With the rising utilities, rent, employee wages, and then paying for the products/fish themselves, sometimes its impossible to do everything possible to give the fish the best help. Its sad, but its also true. I think before you can comment on their fish it would be nice to learn the condition they come in and the ability they have to treat them.
In more cases then one, its not the fault of the LFS for sick fish. In most cases they come in sick.
I don't want to come off rude, I'm just stating how I see it.

Excellent post. Not rude, at all, so don't worry on that account.

I think a lot of people that bash LFS don't understand (or care to understand) most of what you point out. And I agree with everything you post.

- ted

Gordonious · #17 05/27/2007, 11:54 AM

I agree as well. The other thing we have to consider is look at their location and their customers. 90% of their customers think everything in their looks awesome and does not understand their prices. No one in here can say they were not impressed by LFS stores a long time ago before they got hard core into this. It is impractical to buy out hallmark next door just to have a qt room to keep the fish in so that 10% of their customers will buy more. Imagine how long it would take to make up for that expense!

Jon

IwannaClarion · #18 05/31/2007, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Just because a fish is expensive and rare doesn't mean that its immune to every disease. That can actually be one of the reasons why they are so expensive. Any fish can get sick and die. Any fish can come into the store with a disease, and a lot of times fish don't recover from that because its too much stress

i dont think anyone assumes ANY fish is immune to disease. the point i was trying to make is that people were giving the excuse that its expensive to maintain a fish store and all... well, how much MORE expensive is it when $200-$300 fish start dying in house? dont you think theyd rather sell the fish than eat the cost after it dies? compare the cost of medicine vs the cost of the fish. i NEVER see any of their stuff recover, which leads me to believe they dont treat any of the sick/injured. do they really expect someone to drop $260 for a fish that has an obvious infection? most saltwater fish books reccomend u avoid the whole tank if you see ONE sick fish in it. sad part is most of the stuff needed to treat these ailments can be found on their own shelves

Quote:

Now regarding putting them in back in quarentine out of sight. That would be ideal. But what if they don't have the space for it? What if their quarentine tank is fully stocked already? You also have to figure in the cost of upkeeping it along with the medicine, and depending on how sick the fish is, its not always worth it. And for a local store to be able to afford all of this for treatment for fish is extremely hard. With the rising utilities, rent, employee wages, and then paying for the products/fish themselves, sometimes its impossible to do everything possible to give the fish the best help. Its sad, but its also true. I think before you can comment on their fish it would be nice to learn the condition they come in and the ability they have to treat them.

again, how much extra would they have to pay for the meds to treat the fish vs losing it to disease and having to eat the cost? like i stated earlier: damsels and the like, that come in by the dozens, i can see as "not being worth the treatment", but any higher dollar fish should be considered mandatory to treat if it comes in with or develops an illness. just to increase the likelyness of its sale if anything. no one is going to buy a $300 fish if its got ich or an infection. "it came in like that" isnt an acceptable excuse. if youre going to sell me a fish, especially with no warrenty and at a more expensive price that anyone else, it better be perfect. say you bought a new car, and when you arrived to pick it up, it was all dented up and scratched. would you accept the excuse from the dealer that "it just came that way", pay them, and take the car home satisfied? the same can be applied to any retail store

as for quarentine space, maybe they should get rid of their paintball stuff and use that space for QT. guess its not really "just fish"

firecrackerbob · #19 05/31/2007, 07:51 AM

LOL--"guess its not really "just fish""--- always found that funny too. Ive been lurking on this thread since it started. guess ill jump in with my .02 ( waiting for the coffee to kick in...)

While ive done my share of store bashing since ive gotten in the hobby, i have recently reevaluated my motivation's for doing so. ive come to recognize that not every store is going to jive well with everyone. whether its price, customer service, lack of professionalism, or some other factor, there are alot of stores I don't shop at-- fish and otherwise. There are some points that I DO think need to be made from time to time though--

I recognize that the fish business is probably very difficult, but so are a lot of businesses. I tend to agree with the above though that if you are going to carry a $300 fish, you better take the best care of it you possibly can. not only from a business prospective, but from a reef depletion perspective as well. if a store ( or a hobbyist for that matter) isn't going to take the time and responsibility to properly care and house these animals, they shouldn't have them. the 'puppy mill' mentality for fish stores scares me for future generations enjoyment of the hobby.
Sadly, Jon is right-90% of people probably THINK LFSs( and many other animal care businesses) are doing the right thing. unfortunately the 'right' thing is often the expensive thing. Jon is also right that when you're just starting out new in the hobby, you don't know what a 'fair' price is for something and how to properly care for the animals... and heck even with years in the hobby, proper care is difficult!

BUT I DO think that many stores capitalize off of this, and its sad to see. I for one don't shop at stores that appear to take the easy road out, and I encourage others not to as well. everyone--shop owners and hobbyists-- need to take responsibility for how the hobby progresses. if a dog was held in a cage that prevented it from moving, the humane society would be on them like fast. for now i think that job falls on the consumer and hobbyists in the know when it comes to fish stores...

As for me? I buy 90% of my live goods from other hobbyists these days. For the rest I try my best to get from stores trying to do the right thing, but its not easy... As of right now Dr macs and Exotic are the only two on my list for buying live goods...

'Nuff Said

Peace
Eric

pmvalenti · #20 05/31/2007, 12:08 PM

i agree with iwannaclarion, the paintball store needs to go. while im at the reptiles need to go, (im into reptiles just as much as fish) but they keep the room locked and when your in there they stand over your shoulder watching you, i dont know about any of you but i dont like feeling like im gonna steal something everytime i go in there. they spent an *** load of money on there acrylic systems(which was a major design flaw) thats why there prices are so high. they cant recoup there money on the systems because they cant keep there fish alive or there priced so high they cant sell them.

gordonious-- The other thing we have to consider is look at their location and their customers. 90% of their customers think everything in their looks awesome and does not understand their prices. No one in here can say they were not impressed by LFS stores a long time ago before they got hard core into this. It is impractical to buy out hallmark next door just to have a qt room to keep the fish in so that 10% of their customers will buy more. Imagine how long it would take to make up for that expense!

i have to disagree, no matter what petstore you go to you see the same types of people, you got ones that no what there talking about and you got ones that dont know jack and rely on the lfs to get them started. i was impressed fully with greenbank aquarium when i got my first job working for him nearly 12 years ago, you couldnt go in there and not spend money. you dont need to have a huge QT tank, a 75 or a 90 would be just fine. if there QT tank is full than theres bigger issues at hand. ive delt with at least 5 or so wholesalers, ordering and pricing, and every fish bag that came in was checked for healtyness, if i didnt like it, it got sent back.

5-6 inch goldfish i buy for my snakehead were $1.50 a month ago, i went a couple of days ago and they were $4.00 each and have been like that since the beggining of the year which is BS, i argued this fact and got them for 2 dollars
a 2 inch frag of gsp $80.00 3-4 inch colt frag 80.00
they grow 70 percent of there frags
i guess im just disgusted that a store can take advantage of people

kaptken · #21 05/31/2007, 01:51 PM

well, LFS pricing is a lot like auto makers pricing. They have a whole lot bigger profit markup on SUV's and luxury cars than plainer smaller economical cars. but people still rush out to buy the big, high maintenance expensive trucks and cars. because they like the way they look and will pay anything to get it. same with fish. Some fish are harder to collect and transport and thus expensive, some are easy to breed in captivity and are cheap. personally, i like the smaller, less expensive community type reef fish for my tank. I can keep more and wider variety of them in any given tank.

pmvalenti · #22 06/01/2007, 11:48 AM

but the thing with car dealers is that you will find the cars are priced the same where ever you get it from(new cars obviously), at least there all high priced and not just one dealer

kaptken · #23 06/01/2007, 01:16 PM

Not too sure about that. just try and get the same car, same price from different dealers. besides, all live fish are used cars. already been bought and sold a couple times by the time you buy it from the LFS. from the diver, to the exporter, to the wholesaler, to the retailer to the buyer. that's a lot of holding tanks its been through and plane trips.

Hmmmm? would a fish that lives at 100 feet depth of salt water get the bends in an airplane at 30,000 feet?

pmvalenti · #24 06/01/2007, 01:54 PM

call any dealership and ask how much a new solstice, sky, c6 vette, mustang or whatever you want and they will all be the same within a couple thousand depending on insentives. the fact is that just fish is ridiculous with there pricing. i agree, fish do go through hell before they hit our tanks but thats no reason for one store to charge that much

cdangel0 · #25 06/01/2007, 02:46 PM

Well just to continue the "Devil's Advocate" thread here:

How many times have you gone in and asked a question - not neccesarily recently - but when you were first starting out?

Were you ever charged for the answer?

You can not put a price tag on knowledge - well UD thinks 4 years worth is about $24K but that is for another thread

- These are the people we turned to to test our water for the first time - to tell us when we screwed something up and how to fix it. To continuously answer the most mundane questions because we forgot what they said before we got home. Never once have I been asked to pay for asking them a question (or 10 for that matter).

Now, does that mean that it's free? Of course not - let's say they tack a couple bucks on to each fish to off-set the time they have to spend answering quesitons, usually for people that leave without buying anything, or pick up a $2 goldfish after asking 45 minutes worth of questions regarding the benefits of DT's over Kent phyto.

This is the time when they coud be cleaning the tanks, medicating the fish, or building a QT room.

The LFS has been an invaluable resource to all of us, and still are. Where else are you going to be abel to pick up salt water when a disaster strikes and you don't have any ro/di made up?

Am I willing to pay a few more dollars for stuff knowing that I can save two hours worth of reading by asking them the question and being comfortable I got the right answer? Yup. I look at it this way - my time is worth about $24 an hour - If I can pick up a nice looking fish or coral for $10 over fair market value - and get my quesitons answered correctly while I'm at it - I will walk away feeling like I got a good deal.

I ask anyone that would publicly flame a LFS over pricing - What is your favorite fish in your tank? How much did you buy it for? What would you be willing to sell it for? Keep in mind the time and money you spent acclimating, treating, feeding etc.