NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!! - Page 30

jacmyoung · #**726** 05/08/2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loose-electron
...

I got a Durso standpipe and a Stockman standpipe both in need of a good home.

My suggestion, frame them

Good work BTW.

pjpeels · #**727** 05/09/2007, 07:06 PM

Just got through reading the Thread. What day is it?

Seems to be a great system. Would like to implement it.
Wish we could draw up some more conclusions on the overflow box water level fluctuations and minor infrequent valve adjustments.

Do you think that if we oversized the main drain we could make the fluctuations less frequent or less noticeable?
If you had a tank with a 1" overflow rated at lets say 1200gph. I really have know idea if that is close so hypothetically.
Have it drilled to 1 1/2" or 2" and still use the 1200gph pump. Now before the upsize on your holes, do you think that because the overflow and the pump were to closely rated in GPH we see (greater?/quicker?) fluctuations.
Thought maybe a scientist or plumber might have an opinion on the tanks overflow capabilities vs. the pump’s GPH relationship.

Or have I just been looking at the computer screen to long and need to take a break and regroup.
I am sure there could be a number of other factors.
I just thought I would at least discuss the different bulkhead sizes hypothesis since no one has really brought up making them massive.

Trying to bring something to the discussion, Thanks

pjpeels · #**728** 05/10/2007, 02:56 PM

Another thought,
Could our return pumps be experiencing voltage irregularities?
Power irregularities like sags and swells could be effecting the pump speed throughout the day.
Example: for those of you experiencing an overflow water height difference between the daytime and nighttime. During nighttime, not as much is going on as far as appliance use. During the day is the most common time to operate your kitchen appliances, washer, dryer, lights in house, and AC.
Not to mention everyone on the same electrical transformer as you.
Thoughts?
Got the idea from reading Stereophile magazine. They have frequent articles on power regulation and the importance of using voltage stabilizers/regulators. Supposed to help extend the life of the equipment and give your equipment a better chance to run properlly. Think about what the effects might have on your lighting ballasts or other equipment in your tank or house.
My example may not be perfect, but maybe an electrition can chime in.
Thanks

cap1956 · #**729** 05/31/2007, 03:03 PM

Wow just finished all 30 pages. great info thanks Herbie.
I didn't see the use of fliter socks in the sump addressed.

I have dual in tank overflows. I intend to connect both lines to a T and a gate valve and then run the single drain thru a filter sock in the sump. If the gate valve is as close to the filter sock as possible, this should reduce the water fall/velocity/noise and still filter the water.
I would imagine this would add some noise above exhausting the drain in the sump, but will it still work to filter the water and reduce noise?

pjpeels · #**730** 06/01/2007, 12:15 AM

If you connect both of your two overflows to a T and put a gate on the single pipe leading to the sump, then you will not have an overflow dedicated as your emergency drain. Unless you don't want one.

Not sure why having the gate valve close to the filter sock matters, but I think you want the output under water in a section of the sump where the water level remains the same height. Back pressure

You might try the method and then use the filter sock if you still have noise. Unless you what to use a filter sock. I don't see a prob. I might start using one on my new tank.

jest · #**731** 06/01/2007, 02:18 AM

wow , that was a long one...
think i might give this a shot this weekend

cap1956 · #**732** 06/01/2007, 07:54 AM

My tank has dual overflows, both with two holes so I will dedicate two holes for the emergency drains. I do want to use the filter sock. My real question is " will the herbie quiet method work without being exhausted under water, so that I can use the filter sock?

tygger · #**733** 06/01/2007, 03:25 PM

Wow. I can't believe this thread is still around...

I've been using this method for over a year now with no problems. Instead of worrying about making sure the level is always constant in the overflow, I found that it was best to run the overflow level at it's highest point. By this I mean, the "emergency" drain will always be functioning. The majority of the water will go down the main drain, but some water will trickle down the emergency drain.

Quote:

Originally posted by cap1956
My tank has dual overflows, both with two holes so I will dedicate two holes for the emergency drains. I do want to use the filter sock. My real question is " will the herbie quiet method work without being exhausted under water, so that I can use the filter sock?

Not sure I'm reading this right, but if you have dual overflows, I would dedicate 1 hole in each overflow as the emergency drain vs 2 holes in one overflow. This way you'll get better circulation with a drain on each side of the tank.

By exhausting the water above the water level, you're defeating the purpose of this "silent" method. But to answer you question, it will work above or below the water... you'll just need to tune your system to your configuration.

pjpeels · #**734** 06/02/2007, 01:39 AM

work below water level and keep the top of the sock above water level. output submerged and sock is functioning

siskiou · #**735** 06/02/2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tygger
By this I mean, the "emergency" drain will always be functioning. The majority of the water will go down the main drain, but some water will trickle down the emergency drain.

Interesting idea!
Does this make the overflow noisy again, though?

I have trouble dialing in the level just right and am having to fiddle with the gate valves almost daily.

Would like to try this, but don't want overflow noise again.

barjam · #**736** 06/20/2007, 03:39 PM

I do this as well and I haven't touched the valve (don't even have gate valve, just a cheap ball valve) in 9 months.

siskiou · #**737** 06/20/2007, 04:05 PM

I've since cut the emergency drain pipes shorter and it's great!

No more dialing in the level, and the trickle of a tiny bit of water down the emergency drains is not bothersome.

sjediets · #**738** 07/25/2007, 09:07 PM

Awesome is all I can say.

I'm testing this with a cheap ball valve and it's working great. My gate valve gets here in two days. My Oceanic tank came with a durso kit and I'm using the adjustable bottom piece as the emergency drain, so I can easily try out different heights.

My first reaction was negative since I didn't really want to have to run the plumbing up the back, but I'll turned it into a win by going with a 2-way oceansmotions squirt wave maker and bulkheads through the euro bracing. I just hope the wavemaker doesn't foul up the equilibrium.

Now my powerheads are the loudest thing in the tank!

Thanks Herbie!

randyorr · #**739** 08/02/2007, 09:25 PM

I just found this thread and to be perfectly honest...I can't read the whole thing. I did what herbie said and I cannot get it right. It either slowly overflows or slowly drains too far and starts sucking air. How do I find the sweet spot?

tygger · #**740** 08/02/2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by randyorr
I just found this thread and to be perfectly honest...I can't read the whole thing. I did what herbie said and I cannot get it right. It either slowly overflows or slowly drains too far and starts sucking air. How do I find the sweet spot?

What type of valve are you using? How many drains? Can you describe your setup?

randyorr · #**741** 08/03/2007, 11:09 AM

I think I got it. It has been stabile for about 14 hours now. I'll keep an eye on it over the next couple of days. DEAD QUIET! Herbie is a genius.

nattydread · #**742** 08/24/2007, 11:10 PM

I guess I should post these questions in the right thread.

Im getting a tech 120 with 2 mega flow kits. 2 drains rated at 600 gph each and two returns. My return pump will be a Sedra 12, rated at 1200 gph - headloss. So figure I lose 200 gph due to headloss. Will this be too much pump when running only one main drain with the other for emergency? Should I downsize the pump? I dont like the idea of restricting it.

Also, with the 2 megaflow kits can I mod them to herbies method (not including gate valve)?

rdmpe · #**743** 08/25/2007, 06:52 AM

When you run the drain as a full siphon (submerged, no air) it has a much higher flow capacity. So you'll probably be fine. But the emergency drain also should be able to handle the full flow in case of a clogged main. So that's probably where you are most likely to have an issue. You'll probably just have to set it up and test it (by closing the main drain valve).

Always use a screen on your main drain too! No need to screen the emergency drain IMO.

I've been using this setup for about 1.5 years now with amazing results.

Zoom · #**744** 08/25/2007, 05:46 PM

The only problem is the tech 120 has one center overflow and it is PITA to get the right water height inside the overflow box.

uhuru · #**745** 08/25/2007, 08:53 PM

Anybody feed a skimmer directly from the overflow using this type of drain? Is it still necessary to tee off the drain? I am thinking not, because there is no air getting into it there is no gurgling or surging.

geehh · #**746** 08/28/2007, 08:38 PM

I've got a center overflow with two 1" drains and two 3/4" returns. I had Durso's on both drains...and had a quiet overflow and a noisy sump. I was lengthing the Durso's but realized that I didn't have enough pipe (1 1/4"). So after reading this thread I lengthened one, stuck the open (shorter) pipe on the other and fired up the pump.

The open drain handled the entire flow from the Mag 18, so i began to close down the ball valve until I got the water level in the overflow where I wanted it and the sump was blissfully quiet. The Durso acts as the backup--and the upper drain limit--it feeds the fuge, so I needed it to carry part of the flow. I've still got some tweaking to do, but so far I'm pleased!

bayreef · #**747** 08/29/2007, 02:44 PM

uhuru has the right idea(passive power adds no heat. ) Alot of tank to tank multilevel systems use this meathod. Great thread, however a drain cannot take as much in at first untill it gets started so make sure to turn your systems on and off to test that your secondary drain is sufficent.

burris · #**748** 09/04/2007, 06:57 PM

My tank is so quiet and I don't have bubbles in my sump anymore. Thanks Herbie!

randallm · #**749** 09/08/2007, 01:16 AM

Thank you very much for your idea. (kept me from taking my tank down as I want low maintenance going to college an hour away) My tank is way quieter. the reason it isn't silent is because after silencing the water i relized that the pump is making noise along with some power heads. I used a 3/4" plastic gate valve and flow around 600 gal/hr. Definately the best idea i have heard of after talking to many people. I also have a trickle of water down the emergency bulkhead, but it i quiet and could be prevented by higher placement of the intake. Thanks a million.

randallm · #**750** 09/08/2007, 01:16 AM

Thank you very much for your idea. (kept me from taking my tank down as I want low maintenance going to college an hour away) My tank is way quieter. the reason it isn't silent is because after silencing the water i relized that the pump is making noise along with some power heads. I used a 3/4" plastic gate valve and flow around 600 gal/hr. Definately the best idea i have heard of after talking to many people. I also have a trickle of water down the emergency bulkhead, but it i quiet and could be prevented by higher placement of the intake. Thanks a million.