Fish Survey: Panther Grouper

[Seafan]

If you currently keep this fish, please select the options starting with "current owner"; if you kept this fish in the past and no longer keep the same fish, please select options starting with "past owner". If you have kept this fish for more than 20 years, please post to let us know the exact year and the size of the fish.

If you could take some time and share your experience with this fish (Naso lituratus), please take the following survey. I will then put together a web page of this fish on my web site at Aquarist Report

Thanks!

Jason

[Seafan]

The following is is a list of questions/topics about this fish species. If you would like to include them in your reply, click on the last icon of this post (Reply with Quote), and remove the [ QUOTE ] [ B ] tag in the beginning and the [/QUOTE][/B] at the end.

SELECTION
Did you mail order this fish and would you recommend mail order this fish? Are there captive-raised/bred specimen available and where?
Any tips on how you picked a healthy specimen of this species from LFS? What do you think is the ideal size to get?
Are there any noticeable differences in body shape, pattern or color among the same species or between juvenile and adult of this species?
Is there a way to tell the sex of this fish?

ACCLIMATION AND INTRODUCTION
Any special tips about the acclimation and introduction of this fish?
Any special needs for this fish or special considerations for young specimen?
Should this fish be the first or the last to introduce to a tank?

COMPATIBILITY
What tankmates do you have with this fish?Is it a reef or FO tank?
Have you had more than one of this species in the same tank? If so, is there a certain male/female ratio or group number worked for you (to have a harem or pecking order)? Do they school?
Have you had other species of the same genus/family in the same tank?
What’s the stocking order (considering the above factors) that worked for you?
Did this fish hurt/eat any of other fish (or vice versa)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Cnidaria (corals, mushrooms or anemones)?
Did this fish hurt/eat ornamental crustaceans (shrimps, hermits, crabs)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Mollusks (snails, clams, oysters, mussels)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Echinoderms (sea cucumbers, sea stars, urchins)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Worms (feather dusters, flat worms, etc)?[/list]

FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first?
If this fish only accepted live food, how did you wean it over to prepared food? Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)?
What’s the diet?
How much and how often do you feed?
How does this fish eat?(grazers, active or sedentary predators, sand sifters, etc)
Does this fish eat any microalgae or macroalgae in your tank? If so what type of algae?

GROWTH RATE AND LIFE SPAN
What is the initial size of your fish and maximum size it reached? How fast did it grow (how much growth over a given period of time)?
What size tank did this fish live in? (or how soon did this fish outgrow what size tank)? What do you think is the minimum tank size required for an adult specimen of this fish?
If this fish went through body pattern change from juvenile to adult, was the change complete? How long did it take?
How long have you kept this fish? If you no longer have this fish, what was the cause?
What is the longest lifespan and the maximum size of this fish in home aquarium and/or in the wild reported?

DISEASE AND TREATMENT
What disease has this fish had? How did you treat it, for how long? What's the effect of the treatment?

BEHAVIOR
Does this fish change body color under any circumstances?
Does this fish dig the substrate often?
How active is this fish? Is this fish shy?
How territorial or aggressive is this fish? How does this fish interact with tankmates?
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank?
How does this fish sleep?
Does this fish allow cleaners to clean? If so which cleaner and how often?
How does this fish interact with human?
Did the fish release toxic substance that killed other creatures in the tank?
Any other interesting observation of this fish?

REPRODUCTION
If you have a mated pair, how did you get them to pair up?
Any information of spawning in captivity?

SUMMARY
Your overall assessment of this species -
How sensitive is this fish to poor water quality on a scale of 1-5?
1 - very tolerant, may survive a cycle in a new tank
2 - quite tolerant, may survive accidental ammonia or nitrite spike
3 - not terribly sensitive to reasonable pH, salinity or temperature changes
4 - sensitive to any significant water chemistry changes, and may show stress during such changes
5 - very sensitive to water quality, may easily get stressed and get sick with any change in water chemistry
Do you think we should not keep this fish (for what reason)?
Would you recommend this fish to beginners?
Is this fish best kept in mature/established (6 months or older) tank?
Any other recommendations/comments?

REFERENCES
Do you have any links to web sites, online articles or any other source of information about this species that you would recommend?

If you have any picture(s) of this fish you took, please post it here and share with us!

[transman]

i have only had my panther about 4 months and he is getting big quick.i had a friend talk me into getting him and now i dont know what ill do with him in a year. he is a pig and eats anything that hits the water he has been fine with the other fish but is getting an attitude now that he is gettig a little bigger. now he pushes the lion out of the way to get to food but overall im happy with him just remember size as mine was only about 2" when i got him and now he is 6"-7" in just a few months

[MJC]

I purchased four in the past year, all from wholesale distributiors (I have a resellers license). They are kept in various sized tanks, 2x300, 200, and 150g.

I selected these based on a specimen having even coloration, healthy appetite, and having intact fins. They were all purchased in the 4 to 5" size.

Nothing special about introducing them. I've always introduced them as the last fish, but also with subsequent additions.

These have been housed with volitan lions, large and small puffers, yellow tangs, eels, maroon clowns, harlequin tusks, other groupers, sweetlips, and golden trevally's.

In one situation, I added a larger harlequin tusk (6-7") to a setup with a 5" panther. I had to remove the harlequin within 15 minutes and it died within the hour. The panther did a number to it, chased it throughout the tank, cornered it and constantly attacked it. In another instance, the same panther attacked and killed a saddleback grouper. However, the other panthers did not respond in similar fashion and got along with harlequins and a miniatus grouper. I have one tank with two panthers (12" and 6"), the larger panther did nip at the smaller but they've settled in being buddies.

No comment on eating or hurting invertebrates.

[captsgraves]

SELECTION
Did you mail order this fish and would you recommend mail order this fish? Are there captive-raised/bred specimen available and where?
Any tips on how you picked a healthy specimen of this species from LFS? What do you think is the ideal size to get?
Are there any noticeable differences in body shape, pattern or color among the same species or between juvenile and adult of this species?
Is there a way to tell the sex of this fish?

I have gotten this speices from both LFS and mail order. Both have done well. Look for consistent coloration and interest in food. These are not difficult fish to keep so being particular is important, but not as much as with other fish. Only way to go is to get a small fish <2" as they grow big and fast.

ACCLIMATION AND INTRODUCTION
Any special tips about the acclimation and introduction of this fish?
Any special needs for this fish or special considerations for young specimen?
Should this fish be the first or the last to introduce to a tank?

Normal acclimation procedures. They are pretty tough fish...can handle quite a bit. I've added them to very established tanks with good success. Never had one die on me.

COMPATIBILITY
What tankmates do you have with this fish?Is it a reef or FO tank?
Have you had more than one of this species in the same tank? If so, is there a certain male/female ratio or group number worked for you (to have a harem or pecking order)? Do they school?
Have you had other species of the same genus/family in the same tank?
What’s the stocking order (considering the above factors) that worked for you?
Did this fish hurt/eat any of other fish (or vice versa)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Cnidaria (corals, mushrooms or anemones)?
Did this fish hurt/eat ornamental crustaceans (shrimps, hermits, crabs)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Mollusks (snails, clams, oysters, mussels)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Echinoderms (sea cucumbers, sea stars, urchins)?
Did this fish hurt/eat Worms (feather dusters, flat worms, etc)?[/list]
Currently I have my panther in a 125 with a 3 angels, one small trigger, harlequin tusk, tomato clown, 3 tangs, one cuban hog, and one foxface. Grouper gives no one trouble, gets no trouble from any of them. It will however eat whatever it can fit in to it's mouth(or it thinks it can fit in its mouth)

FEEDING
How did you get this fish to eat at first?
If this fish only accepted live food, how did you wean it over to prepared food? Does it eat dry food (flakes or pallets)?
What’s the diet?
How much and how often do you feed?
How does this fish eat?(grazers, active or sedentary predators, sand sifters, etc)
Does this fish eat any microalgae or macroalgae in your tank? If so what type of algae?

I never feed any live food. Only frozen. Krill, mysis, and hunks of frozen fish left over from fishing here on the east coast. I freeze all fresh fish before feeding. Feeding is done by hand, with the grouper very tame and eats from my fingers. Interstingly, the grouper loves squash...as it cannot bite the squash it will hang out right above it and wait for another fish to bite the squash and let loose a small piece.

GROWTH RATE AND LIFE SPAN
What is the initial size of your fish and maximum size it reached? How fast did it grow (how much growth over a given period of time)?
What size tank did this fish live in? (or how soon did this fish outgrow what size tank)? What do you think is the minimum tank size required for an adult specimen of this fish?
If this fish went through body pattern change from juvenile to adult, was the change complete? How long did it take?
How long have you kept this fish? If you no longer have this fish, what was the cause?
What is the longest lifespan and the maximum size of this fish in home aquarium and/or in the wild reported?

They grow fast and big. Within a couple months fish can quadrople in size in a 125. Coloration remains the same as the fish matures with the exception of a slight darkening of the white background on the fish.

DISEASE AND TREATMENT
What disease has this fish had? How did you treat it, for how long? What's the effect of the treatment?

Never encountered disease with this fish.

BEHAVIOR
Does this fish change body color under any circumstances?
Does this fish dig the substrate often?
How active is this fish? Is this fish shy?
How territorial or aggressive is this fish? How does this fish interact with tankmates?
Did this fish ever jump out of the tank?
How does this fish sleep?
Does this fish allow cleaners to clean? If so which cleaner and how often?
How does this fish interact with human?
Did the fish release toxic substance that killed other creatures in the tank?
Any other interesting observation of this fish?

Hides often in the tank, especially with a full belly. When hungry they are out and about. Can be a very tame fish with a lot of personality often eating out of the owners hand.

REPRODUCTION
If you have a mated pair, how did you get them to pair up?
Any information of spawning in captivity?

No experience or known breading in captivity.

SUMMARY
Your overall assessment of this species -
How sensitive is this fish to poor water quality on a scale of 1-5?
1 - very tolerant, may survive a cycle in a new tank
2 - quite tolerant, may survive accidental ammonia or nitrite spike
3 - not terribly sensitive to reasonable pH, salinity or temperature changes
4 - sensitive to any significant water chemistry changes, and may show stress during such changes
5 - very sensitive to water quality, may easily get stressed and get sick with any change in water chemistry
Do you think we should not keep this fish (for what reason)?
Would you recommend this fish to beginners?
Is this fish best kept in mature/established (6 months or older) tank?
Any other recommendations/comments?

2- Only get this fish if you are prepared to feed special diet apart from other fish and are prepared for it to get big fast. A fun fish!

[reiple]

I have a panther grouper (2+ years), a humpback grouper (1+years), a checkered grouper (8+months), a blue argus (10+months).
In the same tank I have a Picasso Trigger (2+years), a Neon Damsel (BIG!-1+years) , a Starry Moray (1+years).
Tank crashed twice 6 and 14 months ago. Losses were a soldier fish, a squirel fish, two brown volitans, a queenniger triggerfish and my worst loss a miniatus grouper. Crash was caused by a drop in specific gravity (top off water went haywired) and power loss of 48 hours.
In it's history and during my start I lost due to stupidity a parrotfish (trigger killed it), several gobies (grouper ate them), a baby bamboo shark (bad specimen) and gave away an undulated trigger to the LFS (it attacked everyone).

Tank size: 100 gallons. Tank age 30 months still going.

Tank weirdness -- my DIY went bonkers since June and I have not finished setting it up (tank is in my parents house not mine). To date NO SKIMMER. Yup and all is well (water change @ 25% every 3 weeks)

Diet --- hmmmm...guppies 4x a week. chopped squid and silverslides 3x a week. granulated fish food for damsel.

(someday I wish to do a Born Free and ceremonially release the panther back to the sea. It's over 12" now! Big guy! If only my mom would let me though.)

[JNG567]

I had one for 3 years. These are MEAN fish it would be aggressive to other fish and was suprisingly mean to my large lion. It ultimately was killed due to its aggression by biting my dogpace puffer over fiid, which sent it into arrest and quickly died.

[ARDEN]

I have had this fish since it was very tiny and it lives in my reef still. I will have to move him when he becomes large enough to threaten my coruscations.

I bought him from my LFS.

I chose him because he was very active and in perfect condition.

Normal acclimation.

He lives with a pair of perculas, a coral hawk, a marine Betta. numerous inverts.

He is very curious but has show absolutely no aggression. however he would, no doubt, eat anything he could fit in his mouth.

He will eat most anything. He does not particularly like vegetable matter but he may eat it anyway.

I have rarely ever fed him live food.

He grows fast.

I have never encountered disease in this fish.

I have noticed this fish change color, becoming darker from time to time.

This fish is not shy he will let me touch him and often gets in the way when I
am trying to look closely at my tank.

I have never seen my blood shrimp clean him.

I am not certain I have ever seen him sleep. He will occasional wedge himself
between rocks with his pectorals.

All in all I do not find this to be aggressive I think hungry would be a better
word. Certainly dangerous to small animals. I have found them to be very hardy
although I do not believe in putting any fish through a tank cycle. If a
beginner was well informed and had a large tank and budget I would perhaps recomend
it. They would have to be prepared for the commitment.

[FOWLR Hobby]

I love my Panther, Panther, Panther Grouper!

He is 1-2 years old, gotten at around 2" from LFS. He is in a 55 gallon FOWLR tank at the moment, until I get a bigger tank. He is with a Sailfin Tang, a Niger Trigger, and a new Miniatus Grouper. All is well so far.

He has never eaten live food, and is rather tame. He eats mostly Silversides and Krill a couple times a week. He originally tried to eat the Niger Trigger, but the Trigger was too quick and the Panther eventually got bored of chasing him and now leaves him alone.

They are wonderful fish, but get big quick! I can't think of parting with him, so I'll have to just get a larger tank. I'm thinking of a cheap upgrade to a 75 for the moment. All my accessories will work on the 75. Later on I would like to get a 120 or 180.

Would have loved to see him with a Cleaner Shrimp, but that would have had to be in the tank first, now it would be lunch!

One note, My Panther is afraid of my digital camera and freaks out if I try to take his picture. I don't want him to get hurt smashing into rocks, so I will keep him out if pictures for now.

Great fish!

[mkr]

This is my little panther grouper. He will soon be moved into my new aggressive fish tank when it's established. Currently he is in my reef.

I was afraid he'd eat my tiny sexy aneemone shrimps, but so far he has not touched them.

He does not eat alot of the food offered, but actively hunts among live rock for prey.

[Oze Reefer]

My grouper will eat anything that moves, i trained it to eat floating cichlid pellets really easily. A great fish for predator tanks, with great personality

[Oze Reefer]

Just a quick pic of my grouper

[Oze Reefer]

And another

[pisces77]

If you buy small and add late, you should not have too many problems. Mine chase a few new entries for a day or two but then accepted them. If you add the grouper early, rearrange the rocks/decorum whenever you add new fish. All of the inhabitants will spend time finding new territories rather than attacking the new entry.

[Crazy-Algae-Eater]

I see a good trend here, I was having the same problem too.

[pisces77]

Another tip, if your panther will only accept live food, use ghost shrimp. Once it begins to anticipate feeding (waiting at the top of the tank) drop in a few pieces of thawed shrimp. It will hit them so hard, you should not have any more problems. By the way, shrimp and crabs (hermits are ok) that are small enough to gulp down are food not tankmates. Stars, urchins, sponges, anenomes, snails, clams, and scallops are usually ok as roommates. Though when scallops go clapping around the tank, the panther usually gets intrigued.

[TimD]

Gorgeous fish. It was a bad choice though, considering we gave no thought to compatibility with other fish. Definitely not a beginner fish in that respect, unless you're absolutely sure you want to keep large, aggressive fish, and do your research into what other fish you can have them cohabitate with.

[ReefWaters]

When I went off to college, I left my 110g reef to fend for itself with only an occasional feeding from my parents. This was wrong and topic for another day. When I finally took the tank back over, there was very little reef left, a lot of algae and some hardy softies. I decided to trade my LFS the few large colonies of mushrooms and other soft corals that had survived my neglect, along with about half of my rock, for an 8" Panther and a Snowflake moray. I knew that these fish were hungry animals but I did not know much else. Needless to say, I should have done my research on both of these species BEFORE I purchased them. Not because I would have decided against them, but because they are beautiful and amazing animals that deserve better treatment than I gave them. That said...

My Panther Grouper (affectionately named Sampson) was by far my favorite fish that I have ever kept.

Personality: He quickly learned that I was the one who fed him. If I were up and walking around the room, he would be swimming around the tank. If I was sitting on my couch (next to the tank) watching TV, he would lay in the corner of the tank closest to me and watch with me. At least he acted like he was watching TV. He was staring right at the screen. If I put my hand over the tank, he would come to the surface expecting food. If I lowered my hand into the water slowly enough, he would allow me to pet him. It was more like he would allow me to rub my fingers down his dorsal fin but I like to call it petting.
The fish seemed to be intelligent. At least very intelligent for a fish. He had different moods and emotions. He would look you in the eye. He did not like strangers. He got to know my close friends and would swim around when they were at my house but if someone he didn't know came over, he would hide.

Feeding: He ate like a pig. I only fed the tank live goldfish. I have since learned that this is a VERY unhealthy thing for any fish (PLEASE do your research before purchasing any fish and provide it with a healthy natural diet). He would eat his fill and retire to his cave to digest his meal for anywhere between a day and 3 days. He would not over eat.

Compatibility: I kept my Panther in a 110 long (72x18x18) with a snowflake moray eel. They got along great. The eel was too slow to compete for food so the panther always got his fill first. The eel would occasionally be seen roaming the tank and in the process would come upon a sleeping Panther Grouper. No matter how much the eel touched, or wrapped around the Panther, the Panther never showed any sign of aggression to the eel. He would just sit there.

I introduced a very small (3") Blue Spot Grouper a few months after the Panther. I made a plexi glass divider to keep the Panther away from the little Blue Spot. At first the Panther would make an occasional lunge at the plexi trying to get to the Blue Spot but eventually stopped trying after a week or two. I left the divider up for about a month and finally decided it was safe to remove it after watching both groupers carefully for any sign of aggression toward each other. Once I removed the divider, I had absolutely no problems. The two groupers didn't even know the other was there. The Blue Spot stayed on the left side in her little territory and the Panther roamed the right 2 thirds of the tank and never went after the Blue Spot.

Diseases: I introduced two native fish of the same species from off the coast of Georgia to the tank at one point. Again, this was moronic and will never be done again. Not to mention the fact that I believe it is illegal. So I wont say what type of fish either. What did happen though was that these native species brought some kind of parasite with them. After about 2 weeks with these foreign ocean fish, I discovered some nasty worms growing out of the sides of the Panther, right around the lateral line. The parasite's heads were buried with their tails sticking out of the skin. I immediately removed the little buggers, added a UV Sterilizer, and within a week or so, the Panther was back to his old self with no noticeable diseases or parasites.

Water Quality: I know that I was not good about my water quality when I kept this fish and he never showed any problems. This does not mean that these fish do not deserve to have the best care possible and that is, as with any fish, high water quality. The store where I got the fish, claimed that at one point before I took the fish, a very ignorant keeper actually placed the fish in fresh water for upwards of an hour. The store rescued the fish which by this time had almost completely lost its fins to the salinity change. They quarantined the Panther, dosed the tank with some kind of fin medicine, and the fish recovered completely. However, I was not a witness to this undertaking so I cannot claim this as truth or weather it actually happened the way I said. Either way, I would say that a MATURE Panther is a VERY hardy fish and VERY tolerant to a wide range of water qualities. Juveniles (specimen under 5") are probably much more finicky.

Summary: I absolutely LOVE Panther Groupers. I regretfully gave mine back to the LFS, along with the rest of his tank mates, due to the lack of a job and the ability to care for the fish properly at the time. I wish now that I had figured out some way to keep them as this was one of the most satisfying tanks I have ever kept. If you want an active, hardy, beautiful, fish with tons of personality, I highly recommend a Panther Grouper. They are not difficult to keep but they will desire (deserve) a large tank and lots of food to be happy and healthy. I recommend heavy skimming and a UV Sterilizer is a nice addition and a safeguard. Just do your research first, purchase the largest fish you can afford, and enjoy a fish that will become a true pet for years to come.

Good Luck

[racedraper]

i had my grouper for 7 months,about 13inches long and love it.He is with my snowflake eel. I love when my panther changes color to blend n with the rocks. I can tell when he is hungry , he or she will go to the top of the tank and splash around. I fed both of the 4 cubes of formula one half unfrozen. he can swollow a whole cube.When happy he will be very white and eradecent (pearl like). I just wish I could put differnt fish in there but I prob put a lion fish with him.
I wonder if I could put a cleaner wrasse with him ,since my eel is big enough that I can see her teeth.anyway I would recomind this fish. It is a blast to have.

[racedraper]

i would post a pic of my grouper but i fall . butt it is in my gallery

[aLittletank]

Originally posted by racedraper
i would post a pic of my grouper but i fall . butt it is in my gallery

here ya go


Allen

[EMG]

I don't own one but I bought one for my friend for his birthday last month.

He was about 2 inches when I bought him. I paid $15 for him at the LFS. He is one of 2 fish in a 55 gallon tank, the other being a 7 inch long Columbian Shark. They get along just fine although I thought the shark was going to eat him the fist 2 days.

We thought something was wrong with him when we threw him in the tank because he swims along the bottom with his head down and tail way up in the air? Anybody else's do this? He had a small piece of his right gill broken off but it wasn't that bad and hardly noticeable? Do gill cover grow back?, I never had that problem before.

He will eat anything but he is mostly fed frozen Mysis shrimp and blood worms. He eats until his belly is so full it looks like it will pop.

I hope he doesn't outgrow that 55 gallon tank to quickly because my friend doesn't really have the money to get a bigger one for a while.

[ReefWaters]

EMG, your a good friend.

As far as I know, these fish are much less hardy when that small. However, as a whole, they are very hardy fish. The fish that I had supposedly spent a few hours in a fresh water tank and in the process, all his fins rotted off and he developed tons of soars. The LFS owner was able to get him back in time and treat him. He came back better than new and was happy as a clam when I had him.

The swimming face down thing does not sound bad. Mine, though much larger, would hide behind the rocks face down, would swim face down a good bit, and would even lay on his side in the corner occasionally. Nothing was ever wrong with him. I just think they are smarter than most people realize.

He will definitely outgrow the 55. How soon is another question.

I would say this is the biggest problem with these fish. Most people (including myself) get these fish and are not prepared for how large they will get and how long they will live. Its almost like a dog. I plan on setting up a grouper tank again but I will not do so until I can set up a 300 gallon or larger tank and plan on leaving it with just the groupers for many, many, many years.

I'm sure you've read above, but just to reiterate, make sure your friend feeds a wide variety of foods and at a minimum skims the water heavily. I also ran a UV sterilizer to prevent parasites which I did have a problem with at one point.

Good luck with the little guy and I promise he will be one of your favorite fish from now on.

[unleashed13]

I purchased a panther grouper a few days ago.however I did not qt him b4 placing him into the main tank always add melafix to the tank when acclimating any new fish into my tank he and the other tank mates have shown no signs of stress or illness .I purchase all of my fish and LR from one LSF only and have never had a problem with any of them as far as ich or paresite problems or illness.
125 gal hes about 7-8 inches
he ate very well the first day placed into the tank that evening
I fed him krill and shrimp chunks
hes is housed with
vilotan lion
silverscat
magnifcant foxface
snowflake eel
2 damsels 3-4 striped
and a black brittle starfish
crushed coral substrate
with LR
he gets along well with everyone
for now the damsels wont fit in his mouth they will be moved to my 55 gal as he grows
hes very outgoing as with all of my others fish.he has learned very fast that I am his feeder.I do hand feed my fish to a point.I stick feed my eel but i hand drop bit at a time for the rest of the tank they all come right to me for feeding
as he grows larger i will have to get a larger tank for him min 180 gal.but he shows promise for some personality the other fish like to lay on his back including the lion he just kinda sits back and enjoys the hug

[unleashed13]

oh yeh almost forgot 1 engeneer goby 11 inches