sulfur reactors

[zuzecawi]

Who uses them? How do you like them? I'm running one now on my sps tank, and I like it but I'm not as impressed by the results as I thought I would be. Maybe it's user error. I keep having problems keeping the drip rate steady. BTW it's a Korallin Biodenitrator.

I'm thinking about making my own reactors to run in addition to the Korallin. Anybody have any input?

[rcpilot44]

I have a midwest aquatic denitrifier and it has taken my nitrates down to zero. My issue is the sulfur smell that I can't seem to get it to stop. Per their instructions I have increased the drip rate. I have even taken it apart and changed the calcium media and rinsed the sulfur pellets and it was great for a couple of weeks, then it started again. Can anyone offer any suggestions??

[ndas2976]

I use the Midweset 1 to. Great unit, had some problems at first getting it to stay cycled, but once it did cycle it did exactly what it was supposed to do.

rcpilot, have you tried cleaning the pump. Sometimes the bacteria can clog the pump and slow the circulation down. If that doesn't work e-mail Rick, I'm sure he will be able to help you fix the problem.

[rcpilot44]

I checked the pump when I took it apart to rinse the beds. I emailed Rick last night and he has already answered (excellent customer service). He is suggesting that I remove some of the sulfur media. I have a 150g tank. Maybe the amount they supply you with it too much for my size tank..

[zuzecawi]

I know with the Korrallin one, you're supposed to keep a certain amount of empty space above the sulfur media and below the calcium media. Maybe it's the same thing with the midwestern models?

So I've been looking around and found a source for prilled sulfur at 99.9% purity, and I'm thinking about picking up a fifty pound bag and starting the experiment. Need to run up to Tap Plastics in Tigard and pick up some acrylic tube and other sundry items, but I was wondering if PVC would stand up to the job as well. I'd rather be able to SEE inside the reactor to make sure all the air is cleared out, but might as well explore a few options.

[hahnmeister]

Whats your ORP in the reactor and in the tank. You need to keep your ORP within a range or the reactor will either do nothing, or actually contribute nitrates.

[zuzecawi]

Well, never read that part in the Korallin directions. Hahnmeister, what exactly is this range? Any links to where you got this information? Heck, I never saw a point in buying an ORP monitor/controller when I don't run CO2 or ozone applications. The guy who I bought the Korallin reactor from also didn't mention anything about ORP and it worked fine for him. For that matter, it works well enough for me, I'm just interested in building more for the big tank.

Edit: I don't mean for that to sound as skeptical as it does, I just genuinely want to know where you got that information, and if it's pertinent to ALL sulfur reactors or just certain brands.

[hahnmeister]

Anything above –50 mV will reverse the process to ammonia->nitrite->nitrate just as in a standard filter and consequently produce nitrates (flow needs to be decreased). Anything below –300 mV will provoke bacteria to use up Sulphur and produce toxic compounds like smelly H2S (flow needs to be increased).

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I don't think you need an ORP meter to be successful with a sulfur denitrator, but it would be useful in determining flow rate. It would likely be more reliable than using your nose to determine whether the effluent smells of sulfur. That said, wouldn't it smell of sulfur considering it contains sulfur? How do you tell if you are smelling H2S or just the elemental sulfur that is already there?

[zuzecawi]

Well, I can definitely tell the difference between normal operation and too slow. But then, my nose is rather sensitive. I never quite lost that hyper sensitivity to smell that was gained during pregnancy (which is NOT an asset when it's clean the skimmer cup time). Seems to me that just testing the water coming out of the reactor would be a good method... if you test it and there's nitrites or nitrates, the flow is too fast. If there's none, but the flow is stinky and slightly yellow, it's too slow. I keep the drip at 1 drop per two seconds and that seems to be just perfect.

[zuzecawi]

I'm still hoping hahnmeister can step in and tell us where the ORP numbers came from.

[hahnmeister]

They came from my notes... cant tell you exactly where those came from. I just took them down for when I converted my eheim 2217 cannister into a reactor.

[zuzecawi]

Ooohhh, conversion! Got pics? Would love to hear how you did that.

[hahnmeister]

Sorry, no pics... on hand at least... I did it over a year ago... and that means the pics are on some portable HD somewhere.

It was very easy... you just link the inlet of the cannister to the outlet via hard pipe, and then splice a couple 'T's into this line with JG fittings... for the 1/4" inlet and outlets. Takes a few minutes and you are ready to rock.

[ndas2976]

1 of the members in the reef club I belong to runs his sulphur denitrator using an orp monitor/ controller.

Here is something he posted on our reef site on how to go about setting this up. I hope he doesn't mind me using his post.

USING A CONTROLLER AND REDOX
This is my preferred method of running a nitrate reactor. In a nutshell you use some type of ORP monitor/controller to watch the Redox of the reactor. An ORP probe is placed in the reactor to achieve this (remember the calcium pH probe slot).

Using Redox reading to control/setup a nitrate reactor is so much easier. In a nutshell you want the Redox to be in the negative or below Zero. Anything above -50mv Redox tells you the nitrate reactor has to much O2 in the chamber and it isn't functioning correctly. Below -300mv is bad and is the same as the "rotten egg" mentioned above. The ideal range to try and adjust to is -100 and -250. From much experimentation over the years I've found -170mv to -175mv to be great target zones to shoot for.

ORP PROBLEMS & a LITTLE TRICK
Unfortunately many ORP devices will not read into the negatives. This goes for Neptune, Pinpoint and Milw. controllers.

It's very, very frustrating to have everything in place to use an ORP controller only to find out that your unit doesn't monitor below zero or does allow monitoring below zero but doesn't allow you to "controll" things based on negative values. The 3 brands mentioned above won't even read below zero.

You've seen me use mv (IE -170mv) in the description of redox values. It's a simple measurement of volts. The trick. Switch the wires around on the probe so the negative becomes the positive and vice versa. Now your equipment can "read" negative values but will show them as "positive". So when you see 100mv on the controller it's really -100mv. Once you get this concept you can use any controller and solenoid and/or pump to change the flow going into the sulphur reactor to keep it nailed at -170mv.

BTW, you don't literally need to hack up your probe to switch the wires. You can get a couple of bnc connectors at Radio Shack and build a crossover bnc connector.

[TulsaReefer]

Have the Midwest Sulfur unit, and after it brought down my nitrates and was fully loaded with sulfur it kept getting stinky on my, no matter what flow rate I used. Rick from Midwest suggested to take out some of the sulfur. Took out half the first time and that helped some, but when it got stinky again I took out another half, so I'm down to about a quarter of the original sulfur, and haven't had to break it down in a couple months now. It's working great, and nitrates are still zero with a smaller amount of sulfur, and a much larger amount of ARM media. So, I think in my case the tank just wasn't generating enough Nitrate to keep the bacteria happy, so they kept reverting to breaking down sulfur. With less sulfur (and proportionately less bacteria) now it seems to have balanced out much better.

[zuzecawi]

That makes perfect sense, actually. Hmm, great input folks, lets keep it rolling. Incidentally, the ad for Pinpoint ORP monitors says it reads from -2000mv to +2000mv. Maybe they changed their design.

[tankslave]

huh, yea, they say it reads +- 2000mV. That's just a little absurd, IMO.

[neelix]

Korallin directions??? 1502

Well just purchased this off ebay as usual no instructions. I found the PDF online but it doesn't show pictures.

This is what I am assuming, the inlet line to the pump has no restriction control valve.
The outlet line which recirculates has a ball valve to set drip rate the rest gets sent back threw the sulphur bed.
And the airline tubing fitting on the lid is used to prime the unit.

Anyone have any insight into these? Should be similar to a calcium reactor I would guess since they use the same chamber.

Thanks

Rob

[zuzecawi]

Here's a picture of my Korallin. I have it hooked up with a aqualifter airlifter whatever you call that thing, since I was having problems with keeping a prime when I was doing water changes. (the inlet was in the sump but it sometimes drew some air and then didn't want to draw water again)

[hahnmeister]

FWIW, you shouldnt even need a aqualifter on the Korallin. My 1501 Ca Reactor is self-feeding... never needed the Aqualifter. Thats one reason why I love the Korallins so much.

[zuzecawi]

Well, with all due respect, "shouldn't" just didn't work out in my case. And actually, the directions did recommend it for cases where gravity feed of the reactor wasn't possible. After trying it with and without, with works much better. I'm sure it could be somewhere chocked up to operator error but hey, if it's not broken I'm not messin with it!

Is there anybody who actually OWNS a Pinpoint ORP monitor who can say authoritatively if the newer ones read into the negatives or not?

[neelix]

Originally posted by zuzecawi
Here's a picture of my Korallin. I have it hooked up with a aqualifter airlifter whatever you call that thing, since I was having problems with keeping a prime when I was doing water changes. (the inlet was in the sump but it sometimes drew some air and then didn't want to draw water again)

That helps a lot!

So you are feeding the inlet with the aqualifter.

And the other out side from the eheim pump recirculates the water threw the reactor, and your valve for drip rate isn't in sight on this picture correct?

[zuzecawi]

Right. The valve for the drip rate is over the top of my super ghetto aquarium hood. I had it dripping back into the sump above the return to display pump, but it didn't seem to really be bringing down my nitrates, I moved the outlet up to the main tank and noticed a reduction in nitrates immediately. Beats me why, maybe it was just getting skimmed right off again when I had it dripping into the sump. Could be coincidence.

[hahnmeister]

Mine isnt gravity fed... the inlet is on the suction side of the pump, and the outlet is on the pressure side of the pump. The reactor can be self feeding even from a solid body of water.