Caribbean Live Rock? Any good

cgib831 · #1 09/24/2007, 12:03 PM

I am looking to buy some liverock to seed about 50 lbs of dead rock. the stuff at my LFS is awesome, have 10lbs of rubble in my fuge, but way too much, about $9lb. If i buy 40lbs of carib from drs.fosters, it'll run about $4.17lb with shipping. Anyone have this stuff? I like it because it says that it is very porous, and much less dense compared to other rock. More volume for the money, but is it any good?

roblack · #2 09/24/2007, 01:14 PM

Find out where in the Caribbean it is from. Lots of rock coming out of Haiti where they are using toxic chemicals and dynamite on the reefs.

notenoughtanks · #3 09/24/2007, 01:55 PM

it's absolute garbage, I promise! You end up with this tough red caribbean macroalgae on everything. Only way to remove is grinding it off the rocks. You get lots of critters too, more bad than good. mantis, gorilla crabs, etc. Just spend the extra $, rather than doing what I did, and throw 40 lbs or caribbean in the garbage a year later.

notenoughtanks · #4 09/24/2007, 01:56 PM

it's absolute garbage, I promise! You end up with this tough red caribbean macroalgae on everything. Only way to remove is grinding it off the rocks. You get lots of critters too, more bad than good. mantis, gorilla crabs, etc. Just spend the extra $, rather than doing what I did, and throw 40 lbs of caribbean in the garbage a year later.

notenoughtanks · #5 09/24/2007, 01:57 PM

sorry, double post

cgib831 · #6 09/24/2007, 03:59 PM

It is from haiti. Would imagine at least somewhat who is selling it though, no. I wouldnt expect doctors fostersmith to deal in sub quality anything. just doesnt sound right. My tank will also be FOWLR. ont mind critters much, actually kind of like them. Before they get eaten. Maybe i just wanna convince myself. anyone else?

cgib831 · #7 09/24/2007, 04:00 PM

i would imagine it somewhat matters....thats what i meant

silvers · #8 09/24/2007, 04:03 PM

IF from the Dr. its awsome. I got 80lbs two months ago and could not be more pleased. great groth and peices

Rouselb · #9 09/24/2007, 04:22 PM

That seems pricey if your LFS is asking $9.00 a pound. When i ordered from a LFS, it was $4.35 per pound for the Caribbean LR. Did you shop around at a few of the local places? If you belong to a local reef club (i use Michigan Reefers), ask around on that board, usually there are some good deals on tanks, and LR.

cgib831 · #10 09/26/2007, 03:41 PM

Of course I checked around. have had tanks for year. Rock ranges between 8-10 dollars. Thats just what it is. I have even seen it for as much as 15. just depends on where you live i guess, cause 4 and change sounds awesome. Anyway, I ordered the rock, so we'll see how it is.

Bob Loblaw · #11 09/26/2007, 04:33 PM

Wow, my LFS sells good rock for between 5 and 7. I always liked the Brasilian rock the best. I don't think you can get that anymore though. I have some nice Haitian rock in my tank that I got from a wholesaler in NJ. It was so fresh that a little baby trumpetfish came out of the rock when I first put it in my tank. Unfortunately, it died during the cycle. I never experienced any horrible macro algae or mantis shrimp. Just pleasant surprises. That is just my two cents.

BeanAnimal · #12 09/26/2007, 05:39 PM

Why buy LR at all?

Reefersrocks.com or marcorocks.com sell wonderful porous base rock. Fill your tank with it, seed with a cup or two of sand from your neighbors tank and you are good to go.

jimdogg187 · #13 09/26/2007, 05:48 PM

Bean, I'm not getting any luck from those wed addy's.

Got something else?

EDIT:

nevermind

ClownBoy · #14 09/26/2007, 07:40 PM

I have a 2 year old 180 full of haitian rock, its beautiful AND without all the BS problems that are being blabbed about here. There is nothing wrong with caribian rock unless you trying to sell fiji rock and those haitians are getting in your way with light weight - cool looking, inexpensive rock. I paid about 2 bucks a lb for it on ebay and could not be any happier. I also have a 220 full of marshal island rock and honestly, it is stunning - as was the cost (got it at exoticfish.com - really top notch stuff). Much nicer than typical fiji rock. Additionally I have a 20 with tonga branch in it (exoticfish.com) - I like the haitian much better. Be warned - you will need less than you think if its haitian.. the stuff is light...

BeanAnimal · #15 09/26/2007, 09:13 PM

http://www.marcorocks.com/
http://reeferrock.com/store/Qstore.cgi

roblack · #16 09/27/2007, 12:14 PM

Sounds to me like all Caribbean rock is not created equally, nor harvested and prepared for sale in the same manner.

BeanAnimal · #17 09/27/2007, 06:00 PM

so buy dry base rock from one of the sites listed above. It is very porous and was ONCE part of a real reef. Seed it with a cup of sand or rock from your favorite LR source.

There simply is no need to buy all that expensive LR. Leave it in the ocean where it belongs.

zuzecawi · #18 09/27/2007, 08:19 PM

Just to throw a wrench into things... why not buy aquacultured rock? The price isn't that much more than any other rock, and true, some of it is denser, but I couldn't have been happier with the 120lbs I have of it, I did catch one mantis shrimp, but hey, I also traded it for nice frags. I can think of a lot of reasons I wouldn't do base rock, but namely, the biodiversity you get in your aquarium from the aquacultured rock is just completely wild. I have things on that stuff that still surprise me, everything from sponges to molluscs to a little fish that swam out. You're not jacking up some reef to get the stuff either. Personally, I'd rather have the dense rock with lots of biodiverse critters than base rock which takes months and months to even start to look decent, or live rock pulled off of a reef somewhere with destructive practices. Just my 02 cents

Might try googling tampa bay saltwater

luke33 · #19 09/27/2007, 08:49 PM

I'd have to say for a new tank your better off with live rock, and i wouldn't get any LS, as i think LS is junk. If you have a mature tank then the base rock is great your talking of Bean. If leaving LR in the wild is what is right, then leave the fish, invert's and corals as well. So your tank should be aquacultured rock, tankbread fish, inverts and only fraged corals.

BeanAnimal · #20 09/27/2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

but namely, the biodiversity you get in your aquarium from the aquacultured rock is just completely wild

Trade a cup of sand with a few local reefers, buy a little piece of rock from here and there and you will get all the same diversity. You will get it without all of the headaches.

It takes months for any aquarium to mature. The base rock goes right along with the process.

BeanAnimal · #21 09/27/2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luke33
I'd have to say for a new tank your better off with live rock, and i wouldn't get any LS, as i think LS is junk. If you have a mature tank then the base rock is great your talking of Bean.

I do not agree at all. So LR is a must and LS is junk? Plenty of diversity lives in the sand. It is enough to seed the entire tank with all kinds of life. What is the difference between 1 pound of Fiji rock and 100 pounds? What do you think comes on the corals you buy and trade? What do you think comes on rock that does not come in a cup of sand?

You can most certainly start a tank with base rock. What exactly do you think base rock becomes? Did you consider that very little of the "diversity" that comes on all of that rock will actually thrive in our tanks. Most of us all end up with the same basic subset of living organisms.

It could easily be argued that more bad can come with large LR purchases than good.

Quote:

If leaving LR in the wild is what is right, then leave the fish, invert's and corals as well. So your tank should be aquacultured rock, tankbread fish, inverts and only fraged corals.

Nobody said you had to do anything. If you knew anything about me, you would know I am far from "Mr Environment". Hell, I am not even a believer in global warming...

That said, I do prefer tank raised fish and inverts. Of course not all species are available. I don't see any great advantage to filling a tank with 100 lbs of LR vs the same amount of the same rock in dry form. It is pure nonsense to think that you must put LR in a tank to have a LR based system.

luke33 · #22 09/27/2007, 09:51 PM

Bean, i've seen many posts you've made and i'd have to say......LOLOLOLOLOLOL, you can't be a vegan and a carnivor, just my opinion

luke33 · #23 09/27/2007, 10:02 PM

My apologies bean, i have seen alot of good advice you have made, i just get caught up with the scientific theory's and this sort of thing sometimes.........there's many different types of reefers and many different successful one's. Your opinion is always valued. No matter if i think its crap or not! ; ) (and vice versa)

zuzecawi · #24 09/27/2007, 11:09 PM

Hmm, when gorgonians, sponges, jewel box corals, porites, brain corals, tube worms, christmas tree worms, feather dusters of various types, clams, seastars, oysters, and various types of corralline and macro algae come from one or two cups of somebody's live sand... then I'll be happy to skip the live rock and start with base rock. Claiming that you get the same diversity from a cup or two of live sand vs. live rock is not only fallacious, but it's just flat out silly. I understand we all have opinions, but lets try to keep the difference between opinion and fact sorted out here. If say, you want to argue that you'll get "enough" diversity from live sand to get by with a healthy system over time, okay, I can accept that. But claiming you can get the same results from apples as you can from oranges is ignoring the peels. I absolutely respect that for some people, base rock and live sand seeding might work. But I also can say with all due respect, that it doesn't even come close to cutting it for me. Part of what I love in my aquarium is the vast and staggering display of so many different species on a micro and macrocosmic scale that is just beyond simple explanation.

I can say, "Look, see all those arms poking out of the rocks when I feed the tank" and you all can read it and say, hmm, okay. But actually, in person, seeing the real deal... is incredible. I've been in this hobby for over 14 years now, and my first tank was all ugf and bleached coral and copper every month. I can say, that as the use of live rock became more common, my enjoyment increased exponentially. Every day l discover something new on the rocks that I've overlooked, and my current tank is going on it's fifth year.

With that being said, lets not turn this into a flame war. Bean, you've got good info and good experience, but so do other people. There is no one true way with reefing, there are as many approaches as there are people in the hobby. Some work, some don't, and some are a matter of personal taste.

BeanAnimal · #25 09/28/2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by luke33
My apologies bean, i have seen alot of good advice you have made, i just get caught up with the scientific theory's and this sort of thing sometimes.........there's many different types of reefers and many different successful one's. Your opinion is always valued. No matter if i think its crap or not! ; ) (and vice versa)

Who said I was a vegan and a carnivore? I run vegans over with my meat truck

I don't mind disagreement with my opinion either

I have not seen any evidence that filling a tank with LR from the ocean is better than filling it with dead rock and allowing it to become live. I see no difference in beneficial diversity or the stability of the systems that use either method.

I do see a lot of bad stuff that comes in on LR (but it can come on on coral or fish as well, cultured or not).

Yes there are a LOT of ways to setup a thriving system... LR pulled from the reef is one of them, but not the only way.