Aqua Illumination LED

[stemonia]

I always wonder when the reefkeeping hobby became such a hostile hobby. There are some seriously opinionated people on the site who love to bash other folks. It makes no sense and is quite absurd in my opinion.

[gcarroll]

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
you guys can rip on rich all day, but when it comes down to it the solaris is old technology. solaris=PC's, seouls= t5's w/ SLR's. I think you get the point.

the math shows that the energy savings are not there yet nor is the par. i've seen them running, and i've heard pat and joy say this and that. i also saw the par numbers at IMAC, that was just it took them a very very long time to release their product...not to mention they had QC issues, and they recently upgraded to a "400w equivalent"...

why this turned into a solaris thread, beats me. lets keep it to AI's unit...

eric

I was very unimpressed with the solaris PAR #s as well but the fact remains that LED may be the future of aquarium lighting. I do feel that calling the Solaris old technology when no one is selling a product that is more advanced. That was the point that Pat from PFO was trying to make. No matter how bad the Solaris is, it is the best LED light fixture on the market. That being said it is also the worste LED fixture on the market as well.

I think this has turned into a Solaris thread because LED + aquarium = Solaris. For now!

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Seems their are people with vested interests as well, which always makes it muddy.

LED to accent M.H. sounds great though if they can get visually intense enough from just a few on a fixture to blend the halide.
You'd get a little shimmer during dawn and dusk.

[Fliger]

I do hope that LED's can replace fluorescent as supp. lighting. It would be awesome to be able to change the color depending on your MH bulb at the time. At a reasonable price, that would be VERY cool. You could even do cool lighting phases and of course dimming. Eventually ...

And I apologize. I have no vested interest, I just get annoyed by people who know it all, yet have used so little. I like Greg C's autosig. I promise to not peek the next time I see this ...

This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]

[SWSaltwater]

Whoever does the LED + MH fixture has some serious issues to figure out since the LED's can not take the heat put off by halides. Gonna take one heck of a cooling design and probably a lot of fans.

[luke33]

I'd like to see t5's and led' as it will give the t5's shimmer.

[Flint&Eric]

Whoever does the LED + MH fixture has some serious issues to figure out since the LED's can not take the heat put off by halides. Gonna take one heck of a cooling design and probably a lot of fans.

if anyone can do it, they can

Don't forget the HOT skimmer always turns into a remora being junk or crap(total crap)

that's not a debate, it's a fact


eric

[RichConley]

Originally posted by mile sq. reefer
Hey Rich, I dont want to start any trouble but you're getting bashed dude. Wow. I like my MH, cant comment on the Solaris.

I'm getting bashed because I was trying to refrain from ruining the day of all the "OMG WOOT LED SOLARIS AQUARIUM!!!!one!" fanboys.


Greg was nice enough to post this graph



What isnt clear with this graph, is that they are comparing 3 Soule semiconductor LED against 4 Luxeon LEDs.

Thats right.


The reason the Par is only 30% higher is because its pulling 1/2 of the wattage.

ok now that compares the single LED against one another. now how many does the Aqua illumination use. Quite frankly the H4 solaris is way bright, any more might be overkill.

Overkill? Its still getting throughly spanked by 175w MH bulbs, and it pulls over 400w.

He has no qualifications to form an opinion on this product. Does he own one for evaluation?

Would you take car buying advice from an Amish guy?

I dont need to buy a corvette to tell you that its faster than a Focus. LED specification sheets do actually tell you something.

[gcarroll]

Originally posted by E-A-G-L-E-S
Seems their are people with vested interests as well, which always makes it muddy.

Absolutely!

Is the Solaris light enough to grow corals? Yes!

Why would I make that claim? Because at one point in time people were growing corals with NO flourescent bulbs.

Flint&Eric suggested that it is comparable to PC lighting. I can say that I have never tested PC lighting but I would have a hard time beleiving that the Solaris is brighter. I am open minded and I have read so called independent reviews of the Solaris. I can't beleive that they compare it to a 250 watt MH. I just don't see it.

When they came to our club meeting they asked for us to supply a 24" long tank to set up the Solaris as a demo. I volunteered to supply the tank because I had one. I am sure that if they knew what I was bringing, they would have stopped at the LFS and buy there own. I wanted to show them my biggest complaint on the Solaris. Can you guess what that was?

[Flint&Eric]

greg, that is great

i havent tested it against PC's, but i too would not be surprised if it was comprable. like you said corals can be grown under NO, even SPS.

[Fliger]

Spread or intensity? So is the next improvement to LED's mini-lumenarcs? I'm buying a LED projector for a piece of art at my business, and getting much better spread with fewer LED's. My pool area is also night-lit by solar powered LED's - including a couple spot lights and I get better spread. I finally found the website for Aqua Illumination - a local tried to buy one but it kept getting delayed so he went with something else. Aesthetically - both the AI and the PFO aren't exactly easy on the eye.

Originally posted by Flint&Eric
if anyone can do it, they can

LOL, based on that comment - I'm assuming you know who the company is.

Alright, off to So Cal, dropping the fam at Disney and gonna spend tomorrow with some fellow fish nerds. I'll check out the PFO demo!

[gcarroll]

Originally posted by Fliger
I'll check out the PFO demo!

I think they will have the displays over a tank like at last years MACNA. They had par meters to show the Solaris beating a 250 watt MH unit. Be sure to see me at my booth too (just 2 booths behind them). I may just happen to have a PAR meter in the frag tank under a 250 watt radium on an electronic ballast. hmmm?

[HBtank]

I predict that I will have an LED lighting system in the next 5 years.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by gcarroll
I think they will have the displays over a tank like at last years MACNA. They had par meters to show the Solaris beating a 250 watt MH unit. Be sure to see me at my booth too (just 2 booths behind them). I may just happen to have a PAR meter in the frag tank under a 250 watt radium on an electronic ballast. hmmm?

They still using that XM250 20k bulb with the extra glass shield, etc?

[Flint&Eric]

fliger, of course


greg, please do and take pictures. too funny

[aninjaatemyshoe]

They use lenses, not reflectors, to spread the light out on LEDs. The thing is that the Solaris could have easily been designed to provide enough spread for a wide tank using a combination of wide-angle lenses and just simply a wider profile. However, the real problem is that if they spread the light out the intensity in any one spot would drop - perhaps to the point where you would no longer have sufficient lighting to keep certain corals healthy. Maybe with the new Solaris "400W MH equivalents" you have enough intensity to spread things out a bit, I don't know. Personally, if I were to buy an LED fixture I would just wait and see about these Aqua Illumination fixtures. The technology is too new and the price is too high at the moment. And, I think the comparisons that PFO/others have made between the Solaris and MHs are quite dubious. They just aren't that efficient yet. I don't think we should be bashing early adopters however. They are the ones that provide the initial capital to get the ball rolling so the rest of us can eventually buy the nice things for much cheaper. LEDs drop in price about 15% a year and the technology is improving rapidly. I'd guess that in 5 years or so they will truly be the best option.

[RichConley]

Ninja, the problem is that these people aren't really early adopters. Theyre not driving the technology. The aquarium hobby isnt even a drop in the bucket when it comes to driving LED design. These people are doing nothing but giving PFO money.


PFO's design is not that difficult, or inovative, and isnt ANY different than some $50 boards you can pick up from hobbyboards. Theres no new technology here. The typical "early adopter" benefits dont apply.

[Ewan]

Originally posted by gcarroll

When they came to our club meeting they asked for us to supply a 24" long tank to set up the Solaris as a demo. I volunteered to supply the tank because I had one. I am sure that if they knew what I was bringing, they would have stopped at the LFS and buy there own. I wanted to show them my biggest complaint on the Solaris. Can you guess what that was?

Good call. I bet they've got a 20L now specifically for that reason.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I wasn't really talking about the LED technology, but about driving companies to produce LED fixtures within our hobby. Rich, you make a valid point: the technology (aside from the LEDs themselves) is not all that complicated. The same could be said for many things within the hobby. My point is that someone had to take the first step. How often does it occur that the first product of its kind is so good that it holds its own against the second generation products?

[RiddleLabs]

Aloha all,

I have a prototype and near-production units from Aqua Illumination in the lab now. Send questions, if you wish, and I'll incorporate them into the product review.

Chris tells me he is awaiting arrival of some plastic pieces with a 'better finish' (although the latter unit I have looks good to me).

The luminairee and controller looks almost exactly like the pictures on the Aqua Illumination website.

I'm testing now, and all I can say at this point is that the Aqua Illumination product produces more light than either of my Solaris units.

Dana

[SWSaltwater]

Whats the light spread look like? (One of my only issus on wide tanks with solaris)
How many LED's on the 72" unit?
Have any Par reading comparisons yet?
How is the quality look?

obviously they have bugs since they are already a month overdue on the release it seems. Post pics please.

[wabio]

I REALLY like the Aquaillumination setup. But at $3,660 for a 6 ft. fixture.....it's way too expensive. I just did the future cost projection vs. 3 x 250w MH in LB reflectors with IC electronic ballasts. Here are the results......simple math:



Costs:
--------------------------------------------------------------
AquaIllumination (480w):

1st year: $3,660 + $210 for electricity*
2nd year+: $210 for electricity


*electricity was calculated at $.10 per MW x 12 hrs/day x 365 days.

--------------------------------------------------------------
3 x 250w MH's

1st year: $375 for 3 LB's, $360 for 3 IC ballasts, $360 for 3 bulbs**, $100 for lunar simulator, $328 for electricity.
2nd year+: $328 for electricity, $360 for bulbs

**bulbs were calculated at $80 each with an 8 month lifespan.

--------------------------------------------------------------
If you project it out, the cost of running MH's won't surpass the cost for the LED's until the 6th year. At which point the LED fixture might be in need of replacement according to the company's claim of a 5+ year lifespan (from website)

NOTE: I did not factor in two cost variables. The cost of chilling/heating (simply b/c it varies too much by region); nor the cost of electricity for moonlights on either system.






I'd still love to run LED's in the future.....but they need to find ways to bring the cost waaaaaaay down.

[pjf]

The new Solaris I4 model uses white LEDs that generate ~80 lumens per watt (http://www.solarisled.com/).

The AquaIllumination uses white LEDs that generate ~100 lumens per watt (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...n#post11096385).

These efficiencies do make LEDs contenders with MH and T5HO aquarium lighting. Solaris and Aquaillumination pricing is not out of the ballpark when compared with MH lighting, such as the Sfiligoi ACLS (http://www.aquariumobsessed.com/), that provides dawn-to-dusk continuously variable illumination.

Keep in mind that MH lighting has a much shorter life span than LED lighting. MH lamps are less efficient in low wattages (< 400w) and towards the blue end of the spectrum. MH efficiency is also dependent upon the reflector.

[pjf]

Originally posted by RichConley
Ninja, the problem is that these people aren't really early adopters. Theyre not driving the technology. The aquarium hobby isnt even a drop in the bucket when it comes to driving LED design. These people are doing nothing but giving PFO money.


PFO's design is not that difficult, or inovative, and isnt ANY different than some $50 boards you can pick up from hobbyboards. Theres no new technology here. The typical "early adopter" benefits dont apply.

This claim has been made before. I believe that another skeptic stated that the aquarium market is too small to support LED technology. The fact that LED aquarium fixtures are selling proves otherwise. The marketplace is the final arbiter.

As for whether or not "early adopter" or "new technology" benefits apply, tell that to Coralvue, Sfiligoi or ATI. They and others have been trying to develop and market dimmable T5 and MH aquarium lighting. I believe that PFO and Aquaillumination are doing well in the continuously variable illumination market. Obviously, this market has not been saturated and will not be because of the relatively short lifespan of T5 and MH lamps.

[chrissreef]

Originally posted by gcarroll
Absolutely!

When they came to our club meeting they asked for us to supply a 24" long tank to set up the Solaris as a demo. I volunteered to supply the tank because I had one. I am sure that if they knew what I was bringing, they would have stopped at the LFS and buy there own. I wanted to show them my biggest complaint on the Solaris. Can you guess what that was?

Totally! that's why I'm going with MH... my tank is 36" wide... I would need 2-3 5 foot fixtures to avoid blackouts =(