Big Angels In A Reef Tank

Pierce · #1 10/24/2007, 07:28 AM

Plan on stocking my 600 g tank with a bunch of big angels. A French, Emperor, Queen, Passer, and Annularis Angels. Currently have 4 heniochus, sailfin, foxface, big watchman goby, and a Kole tang. Also plan on a school of anthias, and some more tangs.

My sump is big and 5-6" live sand with mangroves. 12' x 20" footprint for the sump.

Lights are 3 250 watt metal halides and 1 400 watt metal halide.

Am going to fill it up with corals as soon as my fish load is complete. Adding 2 angels every couple months. I know theyll fight, but have plenty of live rock for hiding places.

Adding only LPS and mushrooms. (no zoos) along with some nice anemones such as a couple rose and long tentacles.

Looking for others who have done this and what they experienced so feel to tell what happened.

gig · #2 10/24/2007, 10:27 AM

prepare to have most of your corals decimated. I have a majestic Angel and he picks at my LPS and Zoos. You might get away with leathers, but LPS unlikely.

john rochon · #3 10/24/2007, 11:18 AM

that many big angels, you probaly won't be able to keep ANY corals at all.

Mattmcf · #4 10/24/2007, 12:31 PM

the chance of having an angel that doesn't pick at your corals is slim (i have heard of people getting away with an emperor but that is rare). Now you want multiple in a large system stocked with corals. I just could not justify spending the money to stock a 600 gallon system and have even a slight chance that my fish would be eating them. Why not go with a large group of tangs instead? you could ever have a schooling group of yellows in a tank that size. Good luck!

Pierce · #5 10/24/2007, 12:33 PM

Its worth a shot to me. Ill just buy more of the corals they dont pick at as much. Ill also keep them fat and happy with plenty of frozen food and pellets. This should help keep them at bay.
I know by nature they like to pick at the rocks, but if they eat some coral, its what they do in nature, so why not let them do it in captivity.
Please dont get into it on conservation with me. The rise in temperature in areas of the ocean has killed off miles and miles of corals, and not to mention urchins and stars by the thousands often destroy miles and miles too. Yes this is all God sent, but so was I. He made me stubborn. So you wont change my mind.
I have yet to see on any national geographic special or discover channel how the aquarium trade is hurting the ocean.... because it isn't, not even with people like me. So dont argue with me because I simply wont respond.. Believe me, Ive heard it all. You cant talk about angels with corals without everybody up in arms. REALLY dont want to go there.

gig · #6 10/24/2007, 12:40 PM

you sound stubborn, so do what you want, but it's expensive food, IMO.

LobsterOfJustice · #7 10/24/2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pierce
The rise in temperature in areas of the ocean has killed off miles and miles of corals, and not to mention urchins and stars by the thousands often destroy miles and miles too. Yes this is all God sent

Man sent, not God-sent.

If you are going to be a stubborn jerk about this, why even post? You knew this was coming. One angel is a chance. A tank full of them, you will end up with them eating corals.

And yes, our hobby is destroying the oceans. Take some classes like "oceanography" or "environmental science" and your local community college, and they will list the harvest of exotics as a cause for concern... and not just for our hobby, but exotic plants, reptiles, mammals, etc as well.

Sure, there are greater threats out there. But thats like saying we shouldnt go after murderers in our cities because there are dictators overseas killing thousands more people. Dont worry about throwing a candy wrapper out your window, because big industries put tons of garbage in our landfills. And dont vote, because one vote doesnt count with millions of others.

NewMariner · #8 10/24/2007, 01:22 PM

Pierce,

You will one day learn that there are things to ask about in round about ways without filling in all the details. Its not our tank. Its your tank. Stock it how you like.

If by one day Im blessed enough to afford such a system I will let you know how that goes as I love the French Angel, and the Queen Angel. They most certainly will be apart of my reef.. Once, man was told that he sailed far enough he would fall off the face of the earth. Until man proved them wrong. Then they said it was crazy to walk on the moon...until man walked on the moon. Go for it. Are we in the hobby to just look at pretty fishes? If you are get a book..or watch Discovery Channel. My goal in keeping fish and corals is to propagate. Yes we as humans are changing our planet. If we dont help the animals that cant adapt as well change, then we will loose them. And what a shame it is to loose them. If people dont push the envelope to try to get Angels to live in capitivity, and breed in captivity, we will loose them forever. Your not going to stop over fishing, the aquarium trade. But you can help in where these animals come from. But we got to start NOW!

Dont let all the naysayers talk you out of it. You might be the one that learns exactly what it is that keeps some of the animals we cant keep in captivity alive... Just keep it slow and steady..dont rush into anything, and QUARANTINE everything. These majestic Angels are to pretty to loose by a stupid mistake of not quarantining...

LobsterofJustice,
I would ask you to refrain from name calling. No where did he attack you, yet you start with name calling. It is not necessary. We are adults, and should treat others as adults.

Now can we please get this thread back on topic? I anxiously await more info, and some pics!

trueperc · #9 10/24/2007, 01:28 PM

This post will be helpful only from people who have experience on this subject. There are many people out there with large angels in reef tanks. Myself, I have a emperor, magestic, flagfin, french and a singapore, also had a small queen(died). Almost of of these I have since juv, now the only corals them seem to go after are some LSP and zoos. I have had no issue with sps's(sadly lost all due to refactor being off and salinty to low for to long). To say you can not have any corals with large angels is untrue. Please search rc and google and you will find many success stories. I have accually seen more damaging stories come from dwarf angels that large. Just be carefully when it comes to meaty corals, but I test frags and I still have a hammer and torch that hasd never been bothered, and large RBTA, and a really large Squamosa clam.

pledosophy · #10 10/24/2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NewMariner
Once, man was told that he sailed far enough he would fall off the face of the earth. Until man proved them wrong. Then they said it was crazy to walk on the moon...until man walked on the moon.

Once man siad smoking was not addictive and would not cause cancer . . . Once Momma told Jethro not to play with a loaded gun . . .

I'm sorry I had to. Really was just meant to be funny. This thread is getting a bit to thick.

I'm all for pushing the enevelope on anything, as long as your doing it responsibly and informed.

We all know Angles have a habit of eating corals. Can't blame them, it's part of there make up. My Dog pees on trees, whatever.

If you'd like to try to keep Angle's in a reef go for it. Many will tell you they were not succsessful. They are not trying to come down on you and say your a bad person IMO, just letting you know what there experiences were and trying to save you the same heartache they had.

HTH

LobsterOfJustice · #11 10/24/2007, 02:13 PM

The original post said:

Quote:

Originally posted by Pierce
Looking for others who have done this and what they experienced so feel to tell what happened.

Then he got three replies of people saying that they would eat his corals. Then he got mad and said "I'm doing it anyway." Whatever buddy, I just dont understand why you posted. Sorry you didnt get a lot of replies that said it was a great idea, becase apparently its not. You got one reply saying they are fine with SPS. But you are planing on mushrooms and LPS. Unfortunately, that is what these angels are most likely to eat.

GatorReefman · #12 10/24/2007, 09:05 PM

I am not trying to discourage you for starters. I just moved my 125 gallon tank along with my emperor angel into our new place. I had the corals in a separate tank but decided to put them into the 125 gallon tank. Within a few days, I saw the emperor eat the zoos and can't seem to find the baby hammer coral. My yellow scroll, red mushroom, purple plate, montipora, and green star polyps seem ok. From my readings, it seems lps are vulnerable, but most sps corals should be ok with large angels.

DamnPepShrimp · #13 10/24/2007, 10:00 PM

Ha, Pierce, you are the man! I have been wanting to try angels with corals for the longest time! I had a gray, emperor and queen angels, and a seperate reef, but never got the chance to put them together. I had to downsize tanks, etc etc, now got another 6ft tank and I am setting it up as a reef but will definitely have a large angel in there. To be honest, LPS is the most picked on coral, SPS or softies/shrooms are your best bet. Each fish is different, so you never know, just buy small frags of things, and see what gets eaten or what doesn't.
Someday I am planning a huge FOWLR, I wanted all your angels plus a blueface. But until then I am going to set up a 200-300g with a passer, clown trigger and sohal tang for my aggressive fix. Definitely tagging along this thread, keep up the good work, post pics and progress when you can! When are you starting this project and when will it be done?

yoboyjdizz · #14 10/24/2007, 10:15 PM

First i be worried with four large angels together i can see two maybe three even with a very large tank as a 600 gallon.. Alot of people have success with emperor angels in sps reefs. ( I'm about to try this as well) Queens will decimate a reef, and im not sure on the French or Annularis Angels. Good luck let us know how this goes, people are only here to help so don't take their advice like their trying to put you down.

seagirl · #15 10/24/2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gig
you sound stubborn, so do what you want, but it's expensive food, IMO.

LOL

reeferaddiction · #16 10/24/2007, 11:29 PM

i have seen a bunch of reef tanks with large angels and most owners say that the angels do pick but really dont sit there and eat corals, but then again most have primarily sps. hope it works out large angels are by far some of my favorite fish

mfp1016 · #17 10/24/2007, 11:30 PM

IMHO I think most people had an issue with this guy's tone, and well, childish way of posting his thread. Its ok to say something like, "I understand the possible ramifications of Angels in reefs, but I have some ideas that might contribute to this issue." Instead, he had a tact along the lines of, "Its my reef and I'll do what I want to, do what I want to, even though I know there are people with more experience on here than me have not been successful, but I'll do what I want to." I'm just saying it would be far more adult of our Mr. Pierce to just ignore the naysayers he was already proposing to ignore.

jeweldamsel · #18 10/24/2007, 11:39 PM

I once asked an experienced person about keeping a queen angelfish in a reef tank. He didn't discourage me, but instead he suggested me to keep the anglefish well fed. I still don't have the gut to try it yet. May be one day I will...

HBtank · #19 10/24/2007, 11:45 PM

Check out this tank, it has an angel collection AND sps collection that rivals any.:

Angel:
Goldflake Angel
Chrysurus Angel
Scribbled Angel
Personifer Angel
A pair of Regal Angel
Mated pair of Flame Angel
Flameback Angel
Majestic Angel
Potters Angel

And even a butterfly and two foxfaces, and an as many tangs as angel.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1208769

Though it is SPS only and probably the way to gow with big angels.

Clams, LPS and softie based tanks will probably not fair very well with angels.

Also of note is how he went about it, letting the tank fill with SPS before adding the angels. I will doubt you will have success, pierce, without some more planning and research.

Adding the corals you mentioned to a tank established with angels is probably the worst way of attempting this.......

Pierce · #20 10/25/2007, 07:32 AM

At no point was I ever angry, just want to learn of peoples experiences. I use this sight only for insight and ideas, and I said all those things thinking the naysayers would just let it alone. I was wrong.
Pics would be awesome!!!

rustybucket145 · #21 10/25/2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pierce
Please dont get into it on conservation with me.

Dude!! You posted asking for people's advice!! Just b/c now you don't get the answer you wanted you stomp your feet and throw a tantrum like a two year old!

Whatever man. I feel sorry for ANYTHING that enters your tank b/c obviously you don't care if your inhabitants make it or not.

gig · #22 10/25/2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reeferaddiction
i have seen a bunch of reef tanks with large angels and most owners say that the angels do pick but really dont sit there and eat corals, but then again most have primarily sps. hope it works out large angels are by far some of my favorite fish

True, except for Zoos and my Clove Polyps (which they decinmated both), my Majestic and Flame will pick at some of my LPS and I've even seen the flame pick on the trunk of my Tree Leather and even the shrooms to no harm.

The problem it, they insistent picking will cause the corals to clam up most the time, so they don 't extend to their full glory and I would guess it would eventually kill them, or make them wither away.

I don't want to move my 2 angels, so I am going to put a divider in the tank for a while and keep the two angels in a partition that is roughly 30% of the tank (6 ft 180G) and they corals and tangs in the other side. I want to see if this has an effect, which I suspect it will, as my cup coral never full extends anymore and when it does, I'll come back in the room and see half of it retracted, then later the rest.

None of my angels touch my Galaxea or my Toadstool leather.

This thread title reminds me of a DeadMilkmen album title "Big Lizard in my Backyard"

Pierce · #23 10/25/2007, 09:33 AM

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, both good and bad. I appreciate it all.

john rochon · #24 10/25/2007, 10:36 AM

PIERCE, a little/lot of research will show you that chances are,,
VERY high that 1 or more angels will!!! it/pick on some type of coral. the picking in itself can kill corals. SPS are on the hitlist as well. LPS and softy's more so. also, trying to feed/over feed angels in order for them not to pick at corals will more than likely pollute your tank.
4 large angels is not a good idea anyways. 600g tank aint all that big for the size those angels will reach.
so now you have an answer. leathers might be the only thing you could keep and even then??

Aadler · #25 10/25/2007, 10:47 AM

I don't understand the problem with keeping corals for food. Now maybe not for so many large fish, but if you got them eating shrooms, xenia, gsp or other weed-like coral (i say shrooms because you can get them to split like made by feeding them daily) i think this would be an awsome way to keep fish. why would you not want a fish eating its natural food source? Sure it may be expensive way to go, but presumably you can suppliment their food source. Just set up frag tanks with the handfull of corals you want to keep and start frag tanks.

Im not sure about the problem people have with conservation, now fine, if you buy rare wild collected coral and feed them that is being straight up stupid, but if you use cultured coral by yourself or others what is the problem? Will you have a beautiful reef with bright and healthy looking coral? maybe not, but i feel in a tank like that the fish are the stars (queen angel is so hard not to buy everytime you see one that is 1-2"). plus if you can get a few nice sps left alone (which it sounds like is the case) i think you could have an amazing looking tank all around, while giving the fish their natural food source.

I don't have any experience to offer on this subject but grand rapids is only several hours from where i live, as long as you arnt a michigan fan i would love to see your setup sometime! (the 12' sump most of all).