Turn over rates

[Dman]

Just wondering what everyone's turnover rate is on their broodstock tanks? I'm trying to get a feel for the size of pumps I'll need.
TIA

[Kathy55g]

What are you using now? My broodstock tanks are a rinkydink setup. I have a Maxijet1200 pumping sump water to the tank, and another for circulation. I have a lot of live rock in the tank as well as a few corals left over from my former 55g display, may it r.i.p. The fish spawn front and center on the back side of a removable rock. I can't see the eggs well, but I can get them out!

In the future, I may drill the sump and install a real pump.

Under the advice of a reefkeeper, I got a Quiet One 4000HH on my 4 x 20 gallon tank growout with large sump. It is really too big for my needs as a fish keeper (no corals in grow-out). For the new system, I am hoping the Quiet One 3000 will be sufficient, and with 3 tanks running on the new 7 tank system, I think it will work just fine.

[ediaz]

I run about 300gph into each tank, the pump moves 6900 with pressure, it keeps the tank clean and saves 50% or more in electricity since the water moves faster the heaters stay on less.

Ed

[Kathy55g]

Originally posted by ediaz
...saves 50% or more in electricity since the water moves faster the heaters stay on less.

Ed

Really? Faster moving water should not lose heat any slower than slower moving water... or would it?

[aomont]

Hey Ed, are these 20 gallon tanks ?
Anderson.

[tanglovers]

I think all of Ed's broodstock tanks are 40s....they are bigger then 20s I can tell you that

[Dman]

Broodstock in 40's???
There's a waste of space.

[Kathy55g]

Ed doesn't do clowns anymore.....

[Dman]

Originally posted by Kathy55g
Ed doesn't do clowns anymore.....

I keep forgetting Ed's above us now.
But for us little people still doing clowns, what's a realistic turnover rate, or this one of those "how many watts per gallon do I need?" type question and I've just shown everybody how much of a noob I really am.

[ediaz]

Amateurs...:-)

If the water moves slow by the time it gets to the tank it loosses most of the heat, if you move it real fast the it gets there faster and gets back to the sump to be heated again, just ask Consumers Energy:-)


I have 20 40 gal tanks, and 10 70 gal. tanks for BS, its 1700 sf still got a lot of space for two more systems.

I have several clownfish pairs, maroon,occ, clarks, blk occ, all spawning..

For non clownfish species I need the big tanks or they will kill each other.

Ed

[Kathy55g]

My bad.

[aomont]

Ed, with that turn over rate how many UV bulbs you run on the system ? Are these on 24/7 ?

Sorry for hijacking Dman but UV still annoys me !

Anderson.

[Dman]

Anderson,
No worries, I feel the same way about Ozone.

[Cuervo]

I'm not sure what the ideal turnover rate is for the broodstock tanks, but I do know that the electrical costs of running that pump is one of the bigger pieces of the electrical costs of the system.

I suppose that is one thing to keep in mind when selecting a pump.

It's worth noting that if you put a valve on the output of the pump, and throttle the pump back that you will actually reduce the amount of electricity that it uses. If you think you might be expanding down the road, go with a slightly larger pump and throttle it back to save on electricity costs.

[Kathy55g]

I still think the body of water loses the same amount of heat whether it moves fast or slow. The advantage I do see in faster water is that the stability of temperature may be better. I doesn't mean I think the heater is working less.

But it's too fine a point to make a mountain of. You go, Ed.

[ediaz]

Anderson i don't use UV in brood stock just in larval.


Since you guys are all for research:

Run 2 tanks from the same system, one with normal flow and one with just a trickle, then check wich one will be colder.

My BS system has 1000gal of water, i went from a pump that drew 160 watts to a pump that draws 7 amps and one of my heaters rarely is on my bill was 150 less the next month.

Now is back up again since I installed and industrial size dehumidifier and ozonizer.



Ed

[Kathy55g]

We pay 150 for the whole house. Add 20 a month for the fish system, but only in winter. But I am on a micro scale compared to Edgar.

[Cuervo]

Originally posted by ediaz
Anderson i don't use UV in brood stock just in larval.


Since you guys are all for research:

Run 2 tanks from the same system, one with normal flow and one with just a trickle, then check wich one will be colder.

My BS system has 1000gal of water, i went from a pump that drew 160 watts to a pump that draws 7 amps and one of my heaters rarely is on my bill was 150 less the next month.

Now is back up again since I installed and industrial size dehumidifier and ozonizer.



Ed

7 amps is 770 watts.

That's one big pump right there. Depending on the model and how it is plumbed, that's alot of heat going into your system. I don't doubt your heaters run less at all.

You are right though.

IF you take two tanks full of water, and you are only heating one, then you are going to have to mix those two tanks of water by a certain amount if you want to keep them both at a specific temperature.

I suppose it really depends on a couple of things - how quickly you are losing heat out of the display tank is the key. If it loses heat quickly, then you will need to turnover that water more often.

Since you bring it up though Ed, you know in a system as large as yours, it might be worth insulating all of your tanks and sumps, as it would help keeping the heat in or out depending on season. That could amount to a considerable savings at the end of the year.

I also saw a post from someone (I think it was in here) that said they found by adjusting the room temperature bya couple of degrees that they saw a significant savings at the end of the year because the heaters ran less. As it turns out, it's cheaper to heat/cool the room than it is to directly heat/cool the water.

On a commercial scale, this is important. That 7amp pump.. 770watts.. running 24 hours... At the end of the month, that thing is expensive man. wow..

**Edit**
If your main reason for the big pump is heat loss from your tanks, have you considered other options? I mean, the only thing that is sucking heat out of your system is the air temp in the room.. raise your air temp bya couple of degrees and your heater won't turn on at all. Raise it by a couple of more degrees, and you might be able to go back to the smaller pump.. Plus that would mean less A/C in the summer time.

It would be interesting to see which is more cost effective...

[aomont]

Hi Cuervo,

It's worth noting that if you put a valve on the output of the pump, and throttle the pump back that you will actually reduce the amount of electricity that it uses. If you think you might be expanding down the road, go with a slightly larger pump and throttle it back to save on electricity costs.

How could you "throttle the pump back" ? I´m new at this and english is not my first language...

Anderson.

[ediaz]

The reason for the bigger pump was to have more water movement, the raise in temp was a side effect i guess, I tried that, heatin or increasing the temp in the room but could not get any help doing it, even hired a hvac co, actually 3 to figure it out, but with their proposals I just tossed a couple of titanium heaters in the sump and was done with it.

Insulating is out of the question at this time, what i considered was to cover the tanks with polycarbonate sheets to keep some heat in( in some of my tanks that are covered the heat stays in and the humidity condensates on the cover)thats my biggest problem , If I keep the humidity low the dehumidifier will run less.

Ed

[Cuervo]

Anderson - a valve on the output of the pump can be partially closed, this will reduce the flow of the pump, but also reduce the amount of electricity used by the pump.

It is what I would do if I were planning for a large system, but starting smaller.

Ed -
I hear you there, trying to redo everything you have or install an expensive heating system isn't worth it to save a couple hundred a month in electric. If you ever build a new facility though, or for some reason are doing a large remodel, just something to consider. The guys that run the coldwater tanks all insulate their tanks, and they recommend acrylic over glass also. I suppose that's another possible consideration for acrylic. What about styrofoam sheeting.. could you slide that in along the backs of the tanks?

As far as the fish go - I reckon you really only need enough turnover to try and keep the waste out of the tank and in the sump.

Living in Fla, I have the reverse problem. The pump that runs my 210 actually keeps the tank water about 3 degrees higher than room temp. Condensation is not such a big deal down here.. but electricity is expensive. I don't even have a heater on the 210.

In looking at a broodstock system, I'm not sure that I would even need heaters, probably the pump would be enough - like Ed does - except if I put in a 7a pump, I'd need a damn chiller.hehe You guys will all probably laugh at me, but we keep the heat at 76 in the house, and the A/C at about 78. So life would be a little easier for me in that regard.. unless the A/C went down in the summer, in which case the house easily shoots up to mid 80's in no time.

[aomont]

Anderson - a valve on the output of the pump can be partially closed, this will reduce the flow of the pump, but also reduce the amount of electricity used by the pump.

Got it Cuervo ! Doesn´t that create back pressure on the pump ? Isn´t it bad to it ?

Anderson.