Green Hair Algae Problems. HELP!!!!

[Savatage]

I have a serious problem with GHA. I have tried everything. Even my Sailfin Blenny starved himself to death. My tank...
Amonia 0
Nitrites 0
PH 8.0
dKH 8
Phos .5
Nitrates .7
Calcium 420
1 - Coralife SuperSkimmer
1 - Magnum 350 H.O.T. canister with Phos-X in it.
1 - 8watt UV sterilizer
Lights are new 10k, 18k, 20k, 20k all 48" floresant
2" Southdown sand bed
90lbs Live Rock

I have 2 - Clowns, 1 - Kole Yellow Eye Tang, 1 - Scooter Blenny, 1 - Midnight Angel (which eats the GHA) I also have Turbos, Cerith and Nassarias Snails. I have 12 - Hermits. I can't get this thing under control. What should I do? I don't want to cook my rock, so please don't tell me to do that.
I do massive water changes every week and I even take the rocks out and scrub them in a bucket, rinse them in another and return them to the tank. Still have the problem.
Has enyone heard of that new product Foster and Smiths sells called Algae Magic? It says it's all natural. What do you think?

[djian]

tagging along...

[NicoleC]

I don't know if Anthony is ready to put his "The Doctor is IN" sign back up yet, so here's my 2 pennies, for what they are worth.

The fact that you have detectable phosphates AND a hair algae problem is disturbing. Replace your phosphate removing media until phosphates detected are zero. You may want to add something like PolyFilter which has a color change mechanism to indicate saturation and is also much cheaper. (Very effective stuff, too, IME.)

Forget the Algae killing products. If if can kill a tenacious organism like algae, what do you think it will do to the rest of your life? "All Natural" claims mean exactly nothing and are usually just marketing crap. It NEVER should be used as an assurance that soething is healthy, safe, etc. Hey, arsenic is "all natural." Would you like some? (Okay, stepping off that soapbox.)

Truth is, you are inputting serious phosphate, either by feeding, in your salt mix, in your topoff water, etc. All the algae removing products in the world are not going to help you if you keep fueling it.

I would:
-Raise your pH to 8.3 or even 8.4 (dripping kalk is one option)
-Change bulbs if they are over 6 months old
-Test your topoff water AND mixed saltwater for phosphates. Test your RO unit (you are using RO?) for TDS.
-Let's discuss what you are feeding, how much and how often
-What kind of skimmate are you getting out of that skimmer?

I would stop:
-Scrubbing the rock. Remove by hand while in the tank, so you aren't disturbing the infauna that your scooter needs to survive.
-Making water changes until your have tested your water, salt, etc. as above.

Also, what's your flow like? Is it at least 10x or more, in a nice random pattern without dead spots? If detritus is building up in the pores of the rock, that's algae heaven. Short term, you can turkey baster the rock while you have filter floss in the canister filter. This will help remove a lot of gunk out of the tank.

[Savatage]

NICOLEC: Thatnk you very much. You can keep the arsinic. I use RO water that reads 7 on the TDS. I use instant Ocean sea salt. My skimmate is green like the fish nets we buy at the pet store. I skim in the middle. Not too wet or too dry. I feed shrimp brine and blood worms with Garlic extract for their health. I feed through a tube. The fish eat from the tube. Very little ever escapes. I feed every three days. I don't think I have any dead spots. Should I have a power head behind or under my rocks? Now that makes me concerned about the corals. How they with react to the hard water movement. Some of my corals don't open in the harder water movement and I had to move them to extreme low flow areas.

[HoopsGuru]

I can relate to the hair algae problems. You would be amazed that a seemingly "good" TDS of 7 can be far from it. The problem is, it doesn't reveal what is making up the number (copper, silicates, phosphates, ???. etc.). I had a TDS of 10 and swore it could not be the source water causing my outbreak until I switched and my problem disappeared almost as quickly as it came. This may be why you do massive water changes but it doesn't help at all....because you are simply replacing fuel with more fuel. Have you had tests done on your RO water?

[Savatage]

I'll go test the RO water right now.

[Savatage]

I tested my RO water with the following...
Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Phos .2
Nitrate 0

A only a .2 for the phos, I shouldn't have these kinds of problems, should I? What do you think.

[NicoleC]

Yep, the water would be one source of your problems. You can add a DI unit onto most RO units, which will knock out the last of your solids. I'd say this is the #1 thing you can do to help your problem.

Also, the food you are feeding is very low in nutritional value, which equals lots and lots of fish poop. Consider changing to a high quality frozen like the foods from Ocean Nutrition. You will probably end up feeding less food, too.

Regarding the skimmate, skimming kind of wet is fine, but if the skimmate doesn't make you gag and you aren't emptying the collection cup almost every day, you are probably not skimming enough OR not getting a good quality skimmate. There's a sticky thread in this forum on improving skimmer performance, which may help. It's not really my forte; I'm a pathetic skimmer user.

On the flow issue, there is FLOW and then there is *turbulence.* The vast majority of corals love flow -- and in the ocean they get lots and lots of it -- but many corals react badly to excessive turbulence. For example, too much turbulence can tear flesh off a LPS like a frogspawn, but that doesn't mean it doesn't like lots of water passing through and around it all the time.

If you can increase the turnover rate going through your sump, that would be ideal coupled with a manifold that creates multiple flows that you can position around the tank. (I think there's a sticky on that, too.) PVC is cheap, so other than a little nervousness some people have about working with PVC for the first time, it's a nice, cheap upgrade. Well, unless you upgrade the pump, too.

If you can't increase the turnover, then a Tunze Stream or, to a lesser extent, a Seio, can generate a lot of water movement without a lot of turbulence. I just installed my first Tunze on a 5' 135g. It was the bottom of the line Tunze, but the performance blew me away. And, it uses less energy than the 4 MJ 1200 powerheads it a) replaced and b) surpassed.

Your aquascaping would be best if it permits the free flow of water around and behind everything. Sometimes a better engineered aquascape can resolve a lot of flow issues.

Just remember, any solution is likely to be a slow process ot get rid of all that algae. I'd go for the shotgun effect and do as many as you can, since all of the items above are beneficial. If you can only do one, or just one to start, I'd add a DI chamber onto your RO unit.

[chevell]

What ever happend to just tossing in some astrea snails and maybe a tang to eat the hair algae? Works for me and many others.

[Savatage]

My problem is that I can't get any astrea snails. No one around here sells them. It sucks.
NICOLEC: I will probably do everything you said. We'll see what happens. It's hard to move the aquascaping around, but I'll give it a try tonight. I'll let you know how it looks. I wish I knew how to compress my photos so I could put them on my pages.

[percula3]

Why dont you drive to Rhinlander and go to Drs. Foster and Smith? It's not that far of a drive hour, hour and a half tops.

[greenbean36191]

What ever happend to just tossing in some astrea snails and maybe a tang to eat the hair algae? Works for me and many others.

That's not a solution, it's just a band aid.

[percula3]

Very true.

[Savatage]

I'm thinking I'm just going to do the aquascaping, add some different flow, do some good harvesting and see what happens. Not unless there's something else I can do, but I don't want to cook my rock.

[ronkent]

Foster and Smith doesn't usually carry Astreas. They normally only have Nassarius, Turbos, Margarittas, and occasionally Bumblebees. If you ask em Savatage they may order some for you. You would need to pick them up the day they arrive tho.

[andyrew]

This is a related question so I thought I would add it to this thread:

I've had a GHA problem so this summer I'm going to be making a bunch of changes (CC to DBS, improve my aquascaping, get rid of my damsels and add a LMB, set up my sump) what I did in the mean time though is I got one of those water filters you attach to the faucet. Was that a waste of time? I'd like to get an ro/di unit but I guess i was looking for a quick fix and an ro/di setup seemed a little intimidating.

[NicoleC]

Depends on what the filter is filtering, and what your water is like. Most faucet-style filters are just plain carbon "taste and odor" filters. Not very effective. In the US you can get a free annual water quality report for your local water which tells you exactly what is in your tap water. (It's scary reading.) I'm sure they are similarly available in Canada.

KDF filtration -- which is used in a very few faucet-type filters -- is pretty good, but not as good as RODI. If you have a dramatic decrease in water pressure going through the filter, you may have KDF. Typically, you need a carbon stage before KDF.

Since you are buying from scratch, consider Ion Exchange instead of RODI. If you go with RO or RODI and are plumbing stupid like me, I can highly recommend the guys at www.pwgazette.com. (Yes, they ship to Canada.) They aren't the cheapest place around, but they give very good install instructions and are even available for phone support. They'll send plenty of adapters and will be sure to include the one you need if you can tell them what it is. They will also custom build or customize filtration systems for you, if needed.

Plus, installing this stuff is not as hard as it seems. Thanks to their instructions, I even managed to hook up a dual stage KDF undersink filtration system that also feeds my icemaker, added an on-demand RO unit inline withe KDF unit, and installed my old single stage KDF undersink filter in the bathroom. I am REALLY not plumbing savvy, so if I can do it, you can.

I guess you can tell I live somewhere where the water quality is really bad, huh?

[andyrew]

thanks for the info NicoleC, I'm going to look into finding out what the water quality is that I'm starting with and I'll probably be buying either an ro/di setup or a KFD style filtration.

[Savatage]

I'll try to order the snails. My friggin LawnMower Blenny died. So did my sissor tail goby. Both have to be hidden inside the holes in my rocks because I've tore my tank appart and can't find either one. Oh boy!!!!!! Here goes some more Nitrate problems all over a fish. Algae's gonna get bad again. I'll just have to deal with it and pound out water changes.

[NicoleC]

Let me clarify -- if you already had KDF, you might be okay. But since you are buying new, RODI or Ion Exchange is the way to go. KDF is excellent for drinking water because it doesn't remove minerals like Ro (not that that's a big deal) -- but those minerals might include phosphates and heavy metals that you don't want in your tank.

Savatage, the more important question is, why are your fish dying? You didn't mention them to begin with -- did you just buy them? If so, where they quarantined?

[andyrew]

I looked into what kind of filter I'd bought and on their website it said it was a carbon filter and didnt say anything about KFD.

[Savatage]

NICOLEC: No. I've had them for a while. I introduced a yellow eye tang to the tank. He pretty much pushed the Sissortail and LMB around. I'm pretty sure he stressed to and killed them. I found my Sissortail this morning. He had no ich. He looked like he had just died. No signs of any diseases. Like I said, the tang was mean to him and my LawnMower Blenny. I have looked over every fish and no sings of diseases. I think we can mark this one up to the strongest kid on the block. Mr. Yellow-Eye.

[scotty1234]

Try and find someone local to you that will sell you a sea hare. That will solve all your algae problems very quickly.

[Savatage]

What the heck is a sae hair? Never heard of one. Email me a photo or something. savatagerc@yahoo.com Thank you.

[rock455]

Once you have the Phosphates under control you might try a Rabbit Fish -- I prefer the Foxface LO because it eats every kind of Algae and is very active -- not to mention it adds a very nice splash of color.

Just a note on scrubbing the rock -- each time you scrub the rocks there will be die off -- which starts the cycling process over again -- definately stop that process.