Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements

[elfa]

Hi Anthony
I just made a small video of my skimmer reaction chamber: http://www.zippyvideos.com/8734888112542706/cimg1035/
do you think its too turbulent?
At present I manage to get about 0.2l daily skimmate from my 90gallon.

Vidar

[DonJasper]

Originally posted by cheeks69
How can you stand to keep your hands out of the water ?

By giving up on the fallacy of the "no maintenance" reef tank, and listing the equipment and the last time it was fiddled with (probably cleaned). Equipment means every pipe, tube, machine, or anything that touches water. And, if you run a bare bottom tank, then the tank itself (Of course the bare bottom advocates enjoy maintenance so cleaning marine aquarium equipment or changing the oil in their cars is no burden for them )

That was the basis for my particular problem. Fiddling with the wrong equipment while the tube that needed cleaning didn't get it. I fixed all sorts of things that weren't broke.

"Sure life will find away: in pitch black sea water at 750 degrees F, or a few miles down in water colder than my refrigerator, but it can't grow inside my pipes and mess up my flow rates - (slowly enough that I didn't notice)"

PS - I really don't have a problem fondling the aquarium livestock. They just want to be left alone, which suits me, as I find there's plenty of easy-to-care for air breathing animals that are much more rewarding to interact with.

PSS - The principle allure of less maintenance that was the driving factor in me attempting a skimmerless tank. Lacking, as it does, not only the skimmer but all it’s various and sundry support equipment.

[Bemmer]

Anthony,
On a short term basis, say about three months. Can I run a system with fish and some corals in a bare bottom tank with no protein skimmer. I would siphon off the waste and detrius every day to keep the nitrates and phosphates down. I need to move my fish to a temp home until my new tank is up and running.

[Anthony Calfo]

running sans skimmer is fine Rebecca, it matters little how you choose to export nutrients so long as you stay ahead of the curve (import of nutrients). Three months will be no problem if you compensate with hearty water changes and careful feeding. Carbon and/or polyfilters woud be nice too.

If you need further discussion on this topic, lets take it to another thread for keeping this one on topic for skimmer production/improvement posts, si vous plez

[beachroadbum]

Hey Now Anthony and all,

I am running a 40breeder and have a 10 gallon for a sump. I have read somewhere where Anthony said that baffles,live rock etc... just hinders performance of the skimmer when placed in a sump. Do you suggest I should just run my euroreef in the sump with nothing in it at all? Would that give me the best performance? I am alittle concerned about bubbles affecting the skimmer from the drain line. There will be 300gph draining down through the 10 gallon.
I feel like a dufus that I cannot comprehend the start of this thread where Anthony recommends worst case scenario to put the skimmer and pump in a bucket in the sump?
So I should put the skimmer and pump in a bucket whre the water initially drains down in the sump and let the water overflow from the bucket into the sump? Does that sound correct? I am worried that the bubbles created from the drain will hinder the skimmers performance because the skimmer pump will be located right where the water drains.

can anyone help me get the right idea. I really have tried to understand this concept and have read the first 30 or so pages of the thread numerous times. Is it that easy? A skimmer and pump in a bucket?

thanks!

take care,
Jared

[laverda]

Great informitive thread! Thanks everyone! It has given me several ideas for the new sump i will be building. One thing no one has mentioned in 40 pages is the the output from your skimmer should not go back in to the same compartment with the skimmer. That way you don't mix your skimmed water with the water you will be skimming.

[Anthony Calfo]

its that easy bro... many aquarists have been simply staggered at what a difference that alone makes. Its a cheap and easy experiemtn too before manking any better/permenant changes to the sump design, etc.

You just need to make sure you cut down turbulence on the raw water dropping into the first stage skimmer "chamber" (bucket, damn, whatever)...

but you'd have to do this with or without a skimmer. Yet many aquarists do not take heed to make simple, soft and direct drops of overflow lines to the sump. INstead... there too often are a ferocious number of tees, hard 90 degree elbows and various other ways/places for water to back up and trap air. Hence the number of complaints you hear about noise/gurgling, salt creep... bubbles being whisked by the sump pump (or skimmer pump) and making microbubbles or turbulence problems on the other side, etc.

If you can insure a reasonably soft drop from the overflow to the skimmer bucket (flex PVC is soooo good here), you will see a merked improvement in skimmer production.

[Anthony Calfo]

laverda... good point, but not a big deal or issue for good reasons: namely, the flow through the skimmer chamber, however slow it may be, is still likely high enough (tanks turns per hour) that the point (mixing processed andf unprocessed water) is moot.

Put another way... you are presuming that the effluent water from your skimmer will be stripped entirely of all proteins possible by your skimmer at that time/setting... and that is not even close to being the case. The skimmer needs to process the tank water over and over again.

That said... for my own peace of mind, I do orient the skimmer with its effluent closer to the overflow wall or bulkhead... and I do orient the skimmer pump intake closer to the drop of raw water from above.

kindly,

Anth-

[beachroadbum]

hehee

Thanks Anthony!I think alot of this stuff just takes hands on experience and then a light bulb clicks...like...oh it's that easy :-)! I'll try it tomorrow. Flex pvc is a great idea and I have some flex spa hanging around so I will hook that up.

Thanks for the quick response. Have a wonderful Advent/Christmas season!

take care,
Jared

[plaz]

I currently have the skimmer (gate valve setup) outflow going over a baffle downstream. I can move it so that the outflow stays in the first chamber. Would that be better?

Thanks!

[Bemmer]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
running sans skimmer is fine Rebecca, it matters little how you choose to export nutrients so long as you stay ahead of the curve (import of nutrients). Three months will be no problem if you compensate with hearty water changes and careful feeding. Carbon and/or polyfilters woud be nice too.

If you need further discussion on this topic, lets take it to another thread for keeping this one on topic for skimmer production/improvement posts, si vous plez

Anthony,
Thank you for your prompt response. My apologize for the placement of the question.

Talk to you soon. (A couple of questions in another thread)

Rebecca

[rockyz]

Anthony Thanks for your response. I am going to take your addvise and get a new skimmer and get rid of the berlin.I think I will rearange my sump and go with a in sump model

[melev]

Guys, if you want to see a skimmer operating very well, you gotta see this video. Anthony, you'll love it.

http://steve68.com/MR-2%20Skimmer.wmv

[NexDog]

Oh hell, 40 pages and a year's worth of posts. Going to take me a few days to read but looks like a must-read! See you in a few days then.

[Lionfan]

Anthony and others, I have tried to bring the intake higher and I think it has helped on my Maxi jet 1200 to Standard Remora HOB. Can you think of any other modification to make even better with buying that large skimmer box. Here's a pic http://tinypic.com/i74pl0.jpg

[finneganswake]

Anthony--I'm currently running a Deltec MCE600 (the hang-on model) on my 50g. Would it be possible to run my overflow directly into the inlet on the skimmer, or would this be too much waterflow for the skimmer to handle? If it is too much, I'm going to go with the plastic bucket in the sump method. Thanks.

[roverrange]

Originally posted by melev
Guys, if you want to see a skimmer operating very well, you gotta see this video. Anthony, you'll love it.

http://steve68.com/MR-2%20Skimmer.wmv

Two words: Awe Some

[ajm-vfr]

Hi Anthony

Last Saturday at the PMASI club meeting we where talking about my skimmer problems and you suggested I start a new thread about my skimmer with pictures and a video of my skimmer running.

The skimmer is an AquaC EV-180. My tank is a 125 gallon with a 100 gallon stock tank as the sump. I have the sump located in my basement. I have taken the skimmer and pump apart and cleaned it, and lowered it in my sump. The injector was clean as you can see in the picture.



I use to have the skimmer feeding out of a bucket directly on the return line, but to remove turbulence from the equation, I removed the bucket and put the skimmer pump in a very calm part of the sump. The first time the skimmer worked, it was installed like shown in the picture.



The problem is the skimmer does not do anything. I the 6 months the skimmer has been running I have produced skim for about 1 weeks on 2 occasions. The last time I produced any skim was back in October. I cleaned the skimmer and I have gotten nothing since. When I clean the skimmer I use a paper towel wetted with salt water or DI water. I feel the problem has to do with the size of the bubbles. My skimmer makes bubbles not foam. I think you can see this in the video. I did raise the water height a little from aquac recommendation so you can see the bubbles. The air value is set wide open as per the Aquac instructions.

Video of the skimmer in operation, or lack there of operation

I don’t reach into my tank very much; I have not had my hands in the tank for the 48 hours from when I moved the skimmer until I took these pictures. The only thing that was added to the tank in the time period was rinsed live brine shrimp, and spectrum thera +A fish food. I do dose occasionally with purple-up, but nothing has been added for about a week. My salinity is 1.025, the temp is 80F, ph is 8.3, kh is 9.6, calcium is 380, Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite are 0.

The boi-load in the tank is light, 5 chromis, 2 firefish, 1 small sailfin tank, 1 lawnmower blenny, 5 scarlet hermits, a tigetail, about 10 smails of various sizes, and about 6 coral frags. Even with the boi-load being light I would expect the skimmer to produce foam, just maybe not a lot of skimmate. I will add that when the skimmer has worked it has pulled out cups of dark skim.

I have to say I am at my wits end with this skimmer. Aquac has been no help, whenever I emailed them, I got the response that my bio-load was too light. I am about ready to scrap this skimmer. Any help you or anybody else can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

ps. sorry for the length of the post.

[Randall_James]

Originally posted by Lionfan
Anthony and others, I have tried to bring the intake higher and I think it has helped on my Maxi jet 1200 to Standard Remora HOB. Can you think of any other modification to make even better with buying that large skimmer box. Here's a pic http://tinypic.com/i74pl0.jpg

You know you could just make an internal horizontal skimmer box and connect to it.

[NicoleC]

It doesn't seem like you've been playing with the outlet valve or the air valve at all, and you need to do that.

For me, I have had similar grief with the EV-180 despite tinkering with it for months, however, I think I finally solved my problem.

First, I threw out the instructions.

I got a pump that will overdrive the skimmer (a Dolphin DP-800), and installed a ball valve on the pump output.

I have the ozone input, which was affecting performance if not tightly sealed. I got a small piece of tubing and a John Guest ball valve, put the tubing snugly in the slot with the valve on the other end and shut the valve.

I raised the water level; it is just below where the neck starts. I tuned this with the pump valve. You can also do this with the gate valve on the skimmer output, but for me, using that gate valve killed my foam.

I dialed back the air input until I got a finer bubble consistancy.

Repeat adjustments to the pump valve and air valve as needed. I am FINALLY getting skimmate, about a collection cup of wet skim per day. I also just re-did my sump to improve my skimmer placement, so hopefully that will get my skimer rockin'.

Of course, you should tinker with the skimmer's adjustments first before buying a new pump, etc., but that's my story.

[carsonc]

AJM Your description of how the EV 180 works is very similar to how mine worked. And also the same results from the people who made it.
I did solve the problem.

I gave the skimmer to someone else and bought an aqua medic t 1000. It is simple to set up and run.

I think the Aqua C skimmers can be made to work but one needs a lot of experience with skimmers to get it to work for more than one day at a time.
Carson

[Anthony Calfo]

Carson... do you realize that folks say the same (and worse) about The Aqua Medic skimers?

I'm not sure what constructive point you were trying to make in your post besides taking a shot at one brand of skimmer and putting a plug in for another.

I do hope you're not going to make that a habit.

I really appreciate constructive posts.

You may simply need perspective here... since you are "new to reefs" (your listed hobby experience), your skimmer experiences overall may have less to do design issues than you think.

[BobB]

I second NicoleC's recommendations on the AquaC. I have a 150 that, until I heavily modified it, simply did not work. First, as she said, I got rid of the Mag7 that came with it and drive it off of a manifold with gate valve coming off of my return pump (= Blueline PS200, Iwaki 70 equivalent). So, this pump could, if allowed, blow the top off the skimmer (it did once when I forgot to close a gatevalve lol). Moral use a powerful pump. Second, and this is based on a long talk with Jason at AquaC, I sealed up the gap around the riser column whose purpose is to introduce air into the chamber. You people with the newer models don't have to worry about this because that was a major change from (say) the 150 to 180. Anyway, that gap clogs too easily. Instead, I drilled and tapped a hole into the top of the 150 for the air to enter, and inserted a ballvalve to control air flow. Third, I lifted the 150 above the water surface in my sump and inserted an open "T" fitting to ensure that airlocking cannot occur. This critical for operation: the exit water must flow freely. Of course, make sure you're skimmer is cleaned regularly and the air injector isn't clogged.

Now, the key to getting my 150 to work is balancing the input rate with the output flow (I usually leave the air full open). What I do is open the air valve open, and the exit gatevalve all the way open, then slowly open the pump valve. I continuing increasing flow until I get foam about 1/4 to midway in the riser column. (Forget what the AquaC instructions say...I have NEVER got that "1/2 inch from spray separator" deal to work for me.) Anyway, with the foam in the riser, I start closing the exit gate valve. Now here's the tricky part, as you do this the column will fall-rise-fall, and the bubble size will go big-small-big. You have to play with the input and output valves to achieve the right mix to get nice small bubbles that extend up to the lower part of the upper collection tube. Of course, everything I've said pertains to a skimmer that has already been broken in and is free from contaminants that may harm skimming potential. That's pretty much it.
Last, I'd like to thank everyone, especially Anthony and Marc, for the information in this thread. There is a wealth of knowledge here. It has caused me change several aspects of my skimming operation, and gave me a chance to rethink investing in a new, much more expensive skimmer. Bravo to all.

Cheers,

Bob

[NicoleC]

Thanks Bob! That's a very good description of your method.

[gregt]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=723744