Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements

[RasBobre]

Keith (WizardOne) - I back Anthony's opinion on the Aqua C's. They are fine inexpensive skimmers. If you want to spend a bit more, the Lifereef skimmers in my opinion are top notch.

On the MARS DIY unit, we had a thread on our forum a few months ago about it. I still contend that it is a loud running skimmer that needs more cleaning and tweeking than another skimmer I have used. But like Rich said on our forum, they are cheap.

Look in to Lifereef, you won't be disappointed.

[Stixbaraca]

I am a nobody when it come to marine aquaria, but when i got into the hobby a year or so ago, I was sent through the roof on how many choices of everything were out there to buy when it came to equipment. I luckily happened upon the Aqua C Remora hang-on after doing a lot of research online mainly. I am sure there are much better and more expensive models out there...but who need them. It is a little unsightly, and i use the overflow box to try and get the top layer of water right into the skimmer. I must say that besides cleaning the Maxi-jet every couple of months, I have never had any problems, always have productive skim gunk, and wouldn't trade it in for another skimmer for free that cost twice the $150 or so bucks it sent me back!

Steve

[thrlride]

Anthony,

I have the ASM G3 in my sump. The chamber my skimmer is in is baffled at 9" high and the dimensions are 12" x 14", barely enough to fit the skimmer with pump. I am not even getting any dark skimmate. I go from nothing at all one day to overflowing the next, with no changes. It might be the water surface level changing as I had the water height above the baffle.

Anyway, what is the optimal water height for the ASM G3 skimmer? Mine is 9", the inlet to the skimmer pump is at around 3"....

Also, what do you think of adding a gate valve to the riser tube to this skimmer?

[Anthony Calfo]

the gate valve on the outflow is a good idea, but not necessarily the problem here.

Indeed, a fluctuating feed flow or water level will cripple a skimmer performance... so too will the heavy feeding of frozen foods and/or hands in the surface of the display too often (this is commonly overlooked).

As to the optimal skimmer water level height... you need to experiment with this on your skimmer. A case by case basis.

[Studioksr]

Anthony, what would be considered heavy feeding of frozen foods?

I am having a somewhat similar problem with a different skimmer -- pretty sure its not feeding, because I rarely feed -- only two clowns. But I am curious for future reference.

Is there a thread or webpage somewhere that lists problem foods? How long would the skimmer craziness last?

[Anthony Calfo]

heavy every day or every other day... oily meats like silversides, but many others too... recovery is 12 hours or less.

Putting one's hands in the tank a few times per week is far worse for interrupting skimmate performance though.

Anything really that breaks the proteinaceous sheen/build up at the surface.

[Studioksr]

How is frozen mysis shrimp?

I am not sure if I understand the disturbance of the surface fully -- I know the proteins make their way to the top. If using a sump, and the skimmer is in its own chamber, is that the only critical chamber?
or should the entire system -- main tank, other sump chambers following the skimmer compartment, for example be hands off?

thanks

[Anthony Calfo]

if you disturb them at the surface then the concentration that makes it to the downstream skimmer is diluted... and indeed handicapped.

Its really not that big of a deal... no need to fixate on it. Just be aware.

The use of a RedOx controller is very revealing at such times and you will see how the values dip during feedings, between water changes and other burdens to water quality.

No idea on the shrimp... brand, how you prep it, etc.

Just observe my friend and finesse it as needed.

[jayo]

well, I'm still confused. Should we be getting a full skimmer CUP or a measuring CUP full of skimmate daily? And shouldn't this amount be different based on size/stocking of the tank?

Lots of good info to think about here. I've just changed my sump configuration to have the overflow drain directly near the skimmer intake.

On putting hands in the tank: is it the disturbance of surface water that is the problem (meaning that lots of water flow does the same thing?) or is it the oils from your skin? Are gloves a good idea for quick hand inputs, like for placing a cleaning magnet in the tank or siphoning debris off the bottom?

thanks,

jayo

[thrlride]

From reading earlier, I can't answer the cup size but I would say you should get at least a cup full per day. He got a cup full with only one or so fish in a 240. I imagine it would be more with heavy stocking.

[jayo]

hee hee hee... A skimmer cup full or a measuring cup full? I still don't know!

jayo

[tikki50]

Well from reading this now I'm a bit confused with my setup. I use a remora with a maxi 1200 and haven’t had good skimmer production since I owned it (1 year). I have heard that adding a mag 3 will help skimmate production due to a higher head pressure so I'm in the process of trying that. I have tried other skimmers as well, a berlin turbo which really did outperform the remora but the maintenance (fine tuning) was ridiculous. At best I have gotten ½ cup over 3 weeks with the remora. I use my overflow to feed my skimmer and then it flows into the fuge and back to the display. The area the skimmer pulls from is relatively small, 6"x 6" and 80%+ of that water must go through the skimmer and then dumps into the fuge. Only a little bit makes into the fuge by gravity. I have my skimmer placed so that the pump is near the surface and the level never changes. Now I do have powerheads breaking up the display's surface quite a bit. Could that really be why my skimmer pulls so little out? My tank is only a 42 gal. and my fuge is 17 gal.

I have really had a hard time trying to make this remora work properly. And yes I clean it regularly, no hands in the tank and very light feeding.

As for the 1 cup a day wouldn’t that be totally dependent on the actual size of the tank? Say 1 cup per 100 gal? There should be some type of equation for tank size to tank load would equal x amount of skimmate produced right?

[Anthony Calfo]

exactly as stated my friends... if a well tuned skimmer is your primary means of nutrient export, you should be able to get a "cup" per day out of your unit.

With a little bit of thought, you must surely realize that no one could say exactly how much by volume (4oz, 8oz, 12 oz?) you can get without knowing if you have other means of nutrient export, what the bioload is on the tank, feeding frequency/amounts (net import daily), etc.

Please don't fixate on the measure or you will lose the lesson/point.

A cup.. a skimmer cup full... a measuring cup full... an athletic cup full, er... whatever

Its just a ballpark figure.

And if you are not even getting 2 oz of dark skimmate daily, you are not near any "cup" size (short of espresso)... so just focus on getting more at this point!

[clampet]

love this thread,,, learning alot

[Studioksr]

Are there are any reference pages or threads regarding tuning a venturi skimmer?

[thrlride]

My water level has been stable for the last few days and I still haven't gotten any skimmate out of mine. Generally where should the riser of a G3 stop?

[Marc Daniels]

Go check out the manual at www.euro-reef.com. The ASM instructions, if there were any, are terrible. This will at least give you a starting point.

[Studioksr]

The manual looks fantastic!

I am not sure if Marc is replying to me (Studioksr) or to thrlride.

I have an ALS Agressor-150 skimmer which came with 2 sentences of instructions, and I am struggling for 2 months now to get it to skim properly!

I greatly appreciate the reference to this manual -- my skimmer isn't all that different in design from the Euro-Reef except the Outlet design is a bit different.

[WILDTHING]

thrlride, I feel for ya, I know you have been having trouble getting your adjustment "just " right, I've seen you posting for advice. I have an ASM too, as stated above the ASM instructions leave ALOT to be desired. Here's what I did, when you have a block of time, say 1 hr at least, set your arm to the highest it will go,remove the cover because it will probably overlow till you do some fine tuning, see what happens, if it starts overflowing move the arm down a few inches, do this till it bubbles almost to the top of the riser, say 2 inches below wait 5-10 mins, if it remains stable replace the top and see if it stays the same. now you need to make tiny adjustments so the tiny bubbles come about 2-3 inches from the top of the riser and start to become bigger bubbles that then pop and overflow into the cup. keep checking every few mins. Also be aware that the placement of the foam arm also changes the hight of the bubbles in the colum of the chamber on mine, not sure if it will happen on yours too. Keep checking and making tiny adjustments till you like what is comming out. HTH
colleen

[AcroSteve]

First, let me say thanks for helping us all out here.

I am running a "largish" sump with many baffles and no real good place for an insump skimmer. Therefore, I run an external skimmer. Previously, you stated;

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
proteins get a chance to migrate to the surface and are separated/diluted away from the pump draw.

the fact of the matter is that proteins are migrating to the surface... surface of the display... and surface of the sump to your great disadvantage in larger sumps (versus tight little skimmer wells for concentration).

My skimmer is fed from my return pump that draws water from down low in the sump, after several sets of baffles. My flow through the sump is probably 42x the sump volume so it is very turbulent. Yet, I still see some crud accumulating on the glass at the water line. This looks like a confirmation of your previous statement.

Is the seperation and migration of the proteins that significant, even in light of my high turnover? If the sump is fed from the overflows of the tanks, wouldn't the level of protiens in the sump tend to be fairly consistant?


Furthermore, you have not mentioned using a "hartford loop" for acheiving the desired water level in the skimmer. personally I can see where they have some advantage, but the adjustability is not easily accomplished. Any thoughts on that?

I have considered a hartford loop in conjunction with a gate valve. The loop would get the water level close, and then the gate valve would provide the adjustablility. I am thinking this might be slightly more consistant than just the gate valve alone. And much easier to adjust than the loop alone.

[Skipper]

Heya Steve. Could you explain what a "hartford loop" is?

Thanks

[AcroSteve]

Sure. Here is how I learned about it.

Originally posted by grim
Here is a good illustration:

http://www.hawkfish.org/snailman/diy8inskimmer.htm

It's a loop of pipe that goes up to the height that you wish to set the internal level to, and then loops back down to allow for the drain (along with a T to get air in the drain). Think of it as an external overflow for a skimmer. Unlike most other designs, where when you turn off the skimmer the water level falls to the drain level, this will keep the internal level equal with the external loop height. Hartford loops are nice on large external skimmers because you won't overflow your sump when the skimmer pump goes off. Also nice is the fact that the skimmer water level will not change based on the feed rate. So, if you use a maxijet, a mag, your overflow, etc to feed the skimmer, the height stays exactly where you want it to be, always.

The exit pipe on a euroreef is something along the lines of half a hartford loop, it provides the 'up' portion, along with the necessary adjustability, however, it doesn't provide the 'down' drain.

jb

From This Thread.

[thrlride]

Originally posted by WILDTHING
thrlride, I feel for ya, I know you have been having trouble getting your adjustment "just " right, I've seen you posting for advice. I have an ASM too, as stated above the ASM instructions leave ALOT to be desired. Here's what I did, when you have a block of time, say 1 hr at least, set your arm to the highest it will go,remove the cover because it will probably overlow till you do some fine tuning, see what happens, if it starts overflowing move the arm down a few inches, do this till it bubbles almost to the top of the riser, say 2 inches below wait 5-10 mins, if it remains stable replace the top and see if it stays the same. now you need to make tiny adjustments so the tiny bubbles come about 2-3 inches from the top of the riser and start to become bigger bubbles that then pop and overflow into the cup. keep checking every few mins. Also be aware that the placement of the foam arm also changes the hight of the bubbles in the colum of the chamber on mine, not sure if it will happen on yours too. Keep checking and making tiny adjustments till you like what is comming out. HTH
colleen

Thanks WILDTHING, I'll give that a shot.

[Anthony Calfo]

no comment on the hartford loop other than its a good idea... incorporated in many skimmer designs dating back over twenty years. Lost on/by some of the newer hobbyists in DIY plans, but still alive in others It makes a difference indeed.

[thrlride]

Anthony, I'm getting about 1/4 cup per day of wet skimmate now, I can't seem to get any more than that. Do you have any additional advice?

I can't seem to get any dry skimmate from it.