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  #1  
Old 12/24/2007, 08:39 PM
Kennyboy1984 Kennyboy1984 is offline
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Point powerhead at the surface of the water?

Hey guys. I was wondering if it is better for sps corals to have a water surface that is undisturbed and clear for better light penetration or to point a powerhead towards the surface of the water to agitate it? Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 12/25/2007, 02:18 AM
ycnibrc ycnibrc is offline
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if your water surface is still it will create a film because of oil and dust. The water surface in the ocean never sit still so pointing the power head to the surface actually will help your tank breath better.
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  #3  
Old 12/26/2007, 02:48 AM
sin05_omar sin05_omar is offline
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I'm not sure where i read it at... but the waves on the surface is beneficial as it will act as a "magnifying glass" with each wavecrest therefore further enhansing the light "punching power" Trick is not to have too much turbulance till the extent of water plashing out.
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  #4  
Old 12/26/2007, 02:54 AM
Laddy Laddy is offline
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High agitation of surface water = better Co2 exchange

The more the better in my book
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  #5  
Old 12/26/2007, 07:27 AM
trueblackpercula trueblackpercula is offline
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Laddy

Quote:
High agitation of surface water = better Co2 exchange

How much do you really need if you have a good skimmer?
From my point of view a flat water surface is a good idea if you have a good skimmer and it will allow the light to penetrate better. the problem is with all the power heads it is very hard to get the top of the water surface to be flat

Michael
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  #6  
Old 12/26/2007, 08:41 AM
GSMguy GSMguy is offline
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I like turbulent water on every level.

I have a wave and powerheads at the top of my tank and i can only imagine good things coming from it.


Trueblack throwing out there the Term "good skimmer" can mean very different things to different people, Remora rules you know

if you can devise an equation that relates to this, something like, water volume,+ air input, x turnover rate at the surface, + amount of disolved 02 in the water / by o2 uptake by the corals and fish= X and X of course = the quantity of o2 in the water.

That is of course impossible for a hobbyist thats why the best advice is to have some surface agitation and a good skimmer and good ventilation, because we have no way of knowing if the skimmer adds enough o2, Get my point??
  #7  
Old 12/26/2007, 09:01 AM
trueblackpercula trueblackpercula is offline
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yes 02 is very much needed. As for my skimmer i have a mrc mr2 single becket so i know i must have good 02 water surface movement can only aid to the tank but i like it flat.

Micheal
p.s. there are 02 test kits.......maybe someone can do a test to see if water surface movement adds 02 and if so how much more. I think there is a limit to how much o2 you can have at any given time. Lets hope someone has done this test as i would love to know.
here ya go straight up o2
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  #8  
Old 12/26/2007, 09:15 AM
adddo adddo is offline
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Skimmers dont give as much oxygen to a tank as good surfacemovement.. Not even close.
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  #9  
Old 12/26/2007, 09:20 AM
trueblackpercula trueblackpercula is offline
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great this thread is goingto be a good healthy debate please tells us why and what proff can you provide. As you can see from my skimmer water is gushing down the becket and adding more o2 then having water movement at the surface then most tank. Like i said i am in now way bashing anyone just trying to have a little debate so we can all learn from it/.
michael
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  #10  
Old 12/26/2007, 09:55 AM
trueblackpercula trueblackpercula is offline
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I just had to poll this
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...3#post11457693
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  #11  
Old 12/26/2007, 10:13 AM
kaserpick kaserpick is offline
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KennyBoy: I believe your original question was about light penetration in relation to a smooth water surface.

If we take a look at intensity reflection models, then we see that the reflection of light is maximized on smooth water surfaces. The more light that is reflected, the less that is penetrating. So, I would conclude that surface agitation (which gives the light many angles to possibly penetrate) would optimize the amount of light that is reaching our corals.

I could be completely wrong; these are just thoughts. I hope this helps answer your question.

To those who are talking about O2: I don't have a clue which method allows for more exchange (skimmer or agitation), but even with the lighting ideals behind I would still have surface agitation since I don't have a skimmer. If someone does know anything else about the O2 matter, please post; I'm very interested. Good discussion.
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  #12  
Old 12/26/2007, 08:23 PM
sin05_omar sin05_omar is offline
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Kaserpick... Exactly my point... Its just that i dont know how to put it in words...
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  #13  
Old 12/26/2007, 10:38 PM
kaserpick kaserpick is offline
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Thanks sin05
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  #14  
Old 12/27/2007, 01:41 AM
Kennyboy1984 Kennyboy1984 is offline
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by kaserpick
[B]KennyBoy: I believe your original question was about light penetration in relation to a smooth water surface.

If we take a look at intensity reflection models, then we see that the reflection of light is maximized on smooth water surfaces. The more light that is reflected, the less that is penetrating. So, I would conclude that surface agitation (which gives the light many angles to possibly penetrate) would optimize the amount of light that is reaching our corals.

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Hmmm, so a clear flat water surface acts more like a mirror and reflects more light than lets in. That makes sense. Initially I looked at it like this. If I can't see down to the bottom of the tank clearly maybe light cannot find its way down to the bottom clearly. Heh. If anyone with a scientific background could chime in on this it would greatly be appreciated. I'm gonna try leave my water surface with minimal agitation for a few weeks and see if I notice any changes like more polyp extension, better color, etc. Also its really awesome to look straight down at your clams and sps in all their natural beauty and color!
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Last edited by Kennyboy1984; 12/27/2007 at 01:47 AM.
  #15  
Old 12/27/2007, 02:07 AM
King-Kong King-Kong is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sin05_omar
I'm not sure where i read it at... but the waves on the surface is beneficial as it will act as a "magnifying glass" with each wavecrest therefore further enhansing the light "punching power" Trick is not to have too much turbulance till the extent of water plashing out.
I think advanced aquarist studied this phenom. and basically said it doesnt add any reasonable or usable light.
  #16  
Old 12/27/2007, 03:03 AM
Coderabit2 Coderabit2 is offline
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As light goes from air to another medium (salt water in this case) it gets bent by the angle of refraction between the two mediums. In order for the light to be magnified, the water at the surface would have to form in a way as to focus the rays. You aren't going to increase the amount of photons as that is set by the bulb, but it could increase the intensities in specific spots. I doubt it would increase concentrations in specific areas by that much.
  #17  
Old 12/27/2007, 03:56 AM
sin05_omar sin05_omar is offline
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I see KingKong.. . . Thank you for informing me. . .Could you perhaps paste a link for us to study on... Thanks in advance

Cheers Mate
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