Question

TheMoneyPit · #1 10/12/2005, 02:42 PM

I'm a little concerned about why AquariumObsessed was booted. I read the Reef Central user Agreement that is "strictly enforced" and have not been able to find any reason why he should be booted. If the user agreements are so strickly enforced why are some many "abusive, harassing, defamatory" remarks made without any consequences. So what gives?

Aquatronica Thread

beerguy · #2 10/12/2005, 02:46 PM

Since AquariumObsessed isn't party to this discussion it really isn't fair for either party to discuss it here.

What I can tell you is that almost no one is banned without a warning, generally behind the scenes. The response to that warning often dictates the final outcome.

Exceptions to the "warn first, ban next" policy include users who have been previously banned under a different name and spamming.

beerguy · #3 10/12/2005, 02:51 PM

Cont.

Not every ban is permanent. Sometimes it's the only tool that we have to force a dialog with the individual. Like I just mentioned, the response to that dialog often dictates the final outcome.

Also, no moderator works in a vacuum here. We collaborate, document and discuss every action taken against a user. There aren't any "cowboys."

Cheers

nickb · #4 10/12/2005, 03:29 PM

I had been wondering why there had been no more updates to his thread about building a 2000G system. Now that I check, I can't find any sign of the thread at all. I saw nothing on that thread which would warrant removing it from the board (a step which is rarely taken from my experience). Can you please restore that thread (which was one of the more popular ones on the system)?

beerguy · #5 10/12/2005, 03:33 PM

It wasn't ever removed. It was closed at his request.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=584220

nickb · #6 10/12/2005, 03:40 PM

I'm a bit confused. His last post indicated that he would post again when progress was made but didn't ask for the thread to be closed. Also, I was subscribed to the thread and it no longer shows on my subscription list.

beerguy · #7 10/12/2005, 03:42 PM

Your subscription list has a default view of only a day or two. if you change your view it should magically reappear.

nickb · #8 10/12/2005, 03:48 PM

I did a search of my entire subscription list (that problem has caught me before) and it's not listed. Not a big deal if the author isn't around any more (unfortunate that he was moved on).

TheMoneyPit · #9 10/12/2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Since AquariumObsessed isn't party to this discussion it really isn't fair for either party to discuss it here.

It's hard for him to be a part of this discussion when he has been banned. From the thread I posted a link to he was warned and banned for answering questions about a product he knows a lot about. He was doing a service to those of us in that discussion.

Either this forum is about a free exchange of ideas and information or it's not, I think Nanook prefers "not".

My hope is that I'm not banned for expressing my concerns.

BTW I should mention that I am not speaking for AquariumObsessed, I am just a member that found the information he provided useful.

beerguy · #10 10/12/2005, 06:48 PM

You quoted the first sentence but seemed to ignore the rest. Your answer was in the post that you quoted. You're welcome to express your opinion but it won't help his cause. He's the only one who can do that.

Quote:

Originally posted by beerguy
What I can tell you is that almost no one is banned without a warning, generally behind the scenes. The response to that warning often dictates the final outcome.

Nanook · #11 10/12/2005, 06:52 PM

While you think you may know the reasons why Aquarium Obsessed no longer has privledges here, you do not have possession of all the facts. We know and see many things collectively as the group who runs this site.

Nanook, nor any other single moderator or staff person, makes the decision to move someone on by themselves in a vacuum. While I can see why you want someone to blame and are willing to put your membership on the line, please think about your connection you have with the member in question.

This forum is where you can express your concerns and ask questions. As long as you do it respectably and within the confines of the User Agreement, you have nothing to worry about. In the thread titled "Aquatronica", several members decided to pursue their agenda concerning a matter that did not involve them directly. I simply asked that the thread be kept on topic , or it would be closed.

I also answered your private message to me and I think that about sums it up. Enjoy Reef Central for the great resource it is and do not dwell on why a particular member is no longer here, as it is absolutely none of your business. It is between that person and us.

Hope that helps to clarify things a bit.

Dave

RC Staff

TheMoneyPit · #12 10/12/2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

I simply asked that the thread be kept on topic , or it would be closed.

You didn't ask you threatened and when I posted a link to this thread you "simply" deleted it. I understand I don't have all the facts why AquariumObsessed was removed but Nanook from what I've seen you dictate with a heavy hand.

Cheers

Nanook · #13 10/12/2005, 07:19 PM

You are correct, I did not ask, if that is heavy-handed, so be it.

This thread can either continue ON TOPIC, or, I will close it at the next poster who decides to take it OFF TOPIC.

The thread had taken a direction off the topic, other members requested that it be kept on topic as well for fear of it getting shut down.

I think it is safe to assume that the people participating in that thread would like to see it continue on topic and not be closed.

Dave

TheMoneyPit · #14 10/12/2005, 08:09 PM

There are only a small handful of people that are participating in that thread and even fewer that have been participating regularly, and of those most expressed concern over the ban. If you would have left the link to this thread intact perhaps many of them would chime in.

BTW who decides whatâ€™s on topic and whatâ€™s not? The thread was started by NRA4EVR, maybe he should decide if people are off topic in his thread. I've seen many threads, if not most, touch on several different topics. But as you stated it's none of my business.

dc · #15 10/12/2005, 08:13 PM

How bout that search function? http://images7.fotki.com/v109/photos...moticon-vi.gif

Nanook · #16 10/12/2005, 08:29 PM

Lighting, Filtration and other Equipment

A forum for discussions about lighting, protein skimming, calcium reactors, filtration and other equipment.

Feedback and Questions

A forum to ask questions and provide feedback about Reef Central.

So, as you can see, no matter what you think is game in that thread, discussion of board policy has no business in that forum.

How much plainer do I have to make it for you to understand?

Dave

TheMoneyPit · #17 10/13/2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

How much plainer do I have to make it for you to understand?

You've made it very clear and trust me I understand very well.

Cheers

Anemone · #18 10/13/2005, 09:24 AM

FWIW, and I can't go into specifics for the reasons already mentioned in this thread, but let's just say there is much, much more to this case than you see in that thread, and that the re-banning of that individual was more than deserved.

Kevin

TheMoneyPit · #19 10/13/2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

While I can see why you want someone to blame and are willing to put your membership on the line

Honestly I have less of a problem with AquariumObsessed being booted then I have with Nanooks threats of revoking memberships and closing threads. He reminds me of a school yard bully.

Let me know if I'm walking on thin ice here and I'll keep my mouth shut but I do think it's important that there be some dialog about the conduct of certain Mods.

gregt · #20 10/13/2005, 12:02 PM

Since I've been uninvolved in this situation either in front of or behind the scenes let me provide some info as an observer of all the actions to date.

Yes, the posts of some of the mods do appear harsh in some cases, but it is not bullying, but merely frustration. This situation has gone on for a lengthy period of time and it's hard to remember in every response that all the information isn't available to everyone.

Mods are not perfect, which is exactly why we don't act alone and don't react in haste. It's a difficult position to be in where we know that we've bent over backwards to the point of having no other choice, and at the same time giving the person that you are dealing with the respect to not make the situation public to give every chance of a resolution.

I realize that it's confusing and some of the mod posts may have come across as antagonizing or rude, and we all apologize for that. But I promise you as an uninvolved observer that this member was treated more than fairly in this situation and given numerous opportunities to resolve the situation before it got to this point.

I guess my point is that I ask you to understand the difficult position mods are in when their good faith with a rulebreaker is being taken advantage of on one side and the membership attacks them for dealing with the problem on the other. The alternative is to publicly hang everyone that does anything remotely against the rules on a cross for all to see, and that, IMO is a very bad solution.

Not making excuses, just trying to show the other side of things.

RobbyG · #21 10/13/2005, 12:45 PM

I would just like to chime in here also and say that 4 of my posts about AquariumObssesed being banned where also removed by Nanook and that I got a very threatening PM from him also, I found this initial PM to be very rude, the title being "Can You READ", now at my age to have some guy come up and ask me a question like this I find to be extremely rude.

While I understand the need to keep order in a forum, it is very hard for people to come to this Forum and Spend $1200 - $1600 on a complicated piece of equipment that they bought only because of other forum members recommendations and then see the one person who knows the most about it Banned and be told it's because "He should become a Vendor". When I emailed Aquariumobssesed he said he is trying to become a vendor but no one will return his emails! From the little I know of you Greg you seem like a straight up guy but believe me when I say Nanook's tactics are no exaggeration, I just paid to become a "RC supporter" 2 days ago and on my very first day I had 4 of my post deleted within minutes of being posted and threatened that I will be thrown out if I ask anymore questions on the subject of Aquariumobssesed.

In closing Greg I want to express how ashamed I am of myself, that I did not have the courage to make a complaint like Moneypit, because I felt so intimidated by Nanook. I will gladly forward the PM I received from him as you can read it for yourself the gist was "Either shutup not one more word or you will be Banned also". It felt like a letter from the Mafia and I knew he was serious so I shutup.

Nanook · #22 10/13/2005, 12:55 PM

RobbyG,

The PM's I have sent you are known to myself and the Staff and Moderator's here. Challenging the people who run this site with comments like:

"Yes sir, I understand sir"

"Politics"

"Every Post I make on this thread keeps being removed, Why?"

are not only insulting to people who volunteer their time here, but also try to keep order. I sent you the following PMs:

Further commentary on that thread that is not on-topic will result in a loss of your posting privledges. Challenging moderators on open forums and being disrespectul towards that staff that volunteer on this site will meet with a zero-tolerance result.

The ball is in your court, what you choose to do will determine if you can stay an active member here on Reef Central.

Regards,

Dave

RC Staff

and:

Your age has nothing to do with this scenario, however, your ability to read a warning by a moderator on the thread does.

The thread will go as long as it is kept focused on the product. The status of the vendor is none of your concern, as that is a private matter between him and us. Voicing your objections about board policy on a thread regarding a product is neither here nor there. You can ask questions regarding the product amongst the other RC members. If you feel that the answers you get are wanting, then perhaps you should contact the vendor from who you purchased the unit from.

We try to keep as unbiased as possible. Feel free to continue using RC and realize that we have rules for a reason. We are not like a lot of other boards where rules are not carefully thought out and enforced. We have painstaking discussions about how to handle situations and do not take this job lightly.

Happy Reefing,

Dave

I think I made it very plain for you in my private message. If you are not happy here, perhaps it is time you found somewhere else to argue your agenda.

Dave

Nanook · #23 10/13/2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheMoneyPit
Honestly I have less of a problem with AquariumObsessed being booted then I have with Nanooks threats of revoking memberships and closing threads. He reminds me of a school yard bully.

Really?? I thought this was the reason you started your thread:

[QUOTE]I'm a little concerned about why AquariumObsessed was booted. I read the Reef Central user Agreement that is "strictly enforced" and have not been able to find any reason why he should be booted. If the user agreements are so strickly enforced why are some many "abusive, harassing, defamatory" remarks made without any consequences. So what gives?[QUOTE]

BrianD · #24 10/13/2005, 01:16 PM

Robby G, perhaps you were asked that question because regardless of how many times a question is answered, you continue to keep asking the same ones.

I would like to ask you a question. How is the fact that you spent $XXX relevant to the status of a member? Also, you seem to be in contact with him since you are so well versed in his dealings with the board, so why not deal with him directly if you are having problems with his product?

RobbyG · #25 10/13/2005, 02:07 PM

Nanook you find these statements to be challenging you? You gave me an order, not a request so I answered you in the same military tone that you gave the order "Yes Sir, I understand Sir"

Now lets compare that with a similar situation I had with GregT,
I stated that the "Search function Sucks" which in hind site I admit is a bit rude, and Greg responded

"And please, in the future, try to be a little less offensive in your thread titles. Thanks."

And I responded back

"Sorry about the title, I wrote it in a moment of sheer "Search Button Frustration" and Rage."

Now that's how civilized people communicate, no need for threats or abusive language.

Now if you believe that a person asking:

"Every Post I make on this thread keeps being removed, Why?"

Is "Challenging the people who run this site" then you really are on the edge!

Quote:

Originally posted by Nanook
RobbyG,

The PM's I have sent you are known to myself and the Staff and Moderator's here. Challenging the people who run this site with comments like:

"Yes sir, I understand sir"

"Politics"

"Every Post I make on this thread keeps being removed, Why?"

I may not be the smartest guy on the block but I think "Zero-tolerance result" means that if you say one more thing your out!

and this statement "Further commentary on that thread that is not on-topic will result in a loss of your posting privledge"
Since your the one deciding what "On-Topic" means, we are at your mercy if we say anything you think is off topic

While I would agree that a PM like yours should be sent to people who are rude and very offensive in nature, you seem to use your "Nuclear Response" to deal with anybody who says something you don't personally like. The kind of PM you sent me is not the kind you send people who are being Civil and orderly.

Quote:

are not only insulting to people who volunteer their time here, but also try to keep order. I sent you the following PMs:

Further commentary on that thread that is not on-topic will result in a loss of your posting privledges. Challenging moderators on open forums and being disrespectul towards that staff that volunteer on this site will meet with a zero-tolerance result.

The ball is in your court, what you choose to do will determine if you can stay an active member here on Reef Central.

Regards,

Dave

RC Staff

[/B]

Quote:

I think I made it very plain for you in my private message. If you are not happy here, perhaps it is time you found somewhere else to argue your agenda.

Dave
[/B]

Once again, here you go, seems like throwing people out and threatening them is the normal way of dealing with people for you. So I will keep quiet and stay out of your way.