o happy day @ lfs!

[funnyfishy]

I have been looking for a decent lfs in my area for a while, because all the others i have been to are terrible. when i visited one a few towns over.
I went there, and if you want to buy a fish, you have to fill out an form which includes your exp., tank size, other fish, parameters, etc. the staff then decides whether or not you should be allowed to buy your livestock or not. I have heard the staff tell customers a few times they are not allowed to purchase fish/inverts or corals for many reasons; they also void guarantees for many reasons
i have never seen a dead or sick fish in display tanks there. It is now my fav store!

[sdreefer21]

Whats the name and location of this store thats really cool that they care! They deserve to be recognized.

[gophia]

What the hell! Are you serious. Who in the world is going to fill out info about their setup and their expertise to buy a fish.

Do you consider a 5.5 gallon acceptable for a reef keeping? Most of you guy/gals will say NO. But there are thousand of reefer who are also keeping nanos.

I undersatnd this LFS is trying to protect their livestock from instant or chornic death from an amature, but I can't see how one person can judge if his or her tank is worthy enough for their livestock.

I don't forsee that LFS lasting long.

[posjr]

So wheres this place at?

[gtrestoration]

What the hell! Are you serious. Who in the world is going to fill out info about their setup and their expertise to buy a fish.

ME


I think in California that Pet Stores are required by law to explain the necessary care to the buyer of each animal they purchase.

I have been asked to sign the form stating they explained this to me one time at one store. And this is the store which used a lead weight in a shell which a colt was attached to.

The Colt didn't make it and then I found the lead.

Steve U

[gophia]

gtrestoration- explaination by the LFS employee is great and should be encouraged. When I bought my gf her first hamster, I had to sign a form at the petshop stating that the employee had explained to me the age, sex, and how I should care for the little bugger. But restricting if I am allowed to buy a coral or a fish based on my tank setup or level experience is a bit over the hill. It's just like ignoring someone on this great site just because he/she has less than 100 post.

In any case it's his store so he can make any policy he wants.

[safetydancer]

ok its not that extreme...
they're just sick of people coming back with dead livestock, and making sure people arent putting hippos in 10 g aquariums and stuff. i cant remeber the name, but its in southern ontario

[funnyfishy]

oops, sorry safetydancer is my friends account, i was replying on the wrong name

[koj11]

If a lfs doesn't want to deal with returns, the answer is as simple as instituting a strict return policy (which could include having customers sign copies at the time of purchase). Now, the store deciding as to who can or cannot buy this fish or that coral, this is truly ridiculous. Maybe when I go grocery shopping next, the store will decide that I am not hungry enough or have the proper cooking equipment to properly prepare my food and not sell it to me. Or Mcdonald's could decide to weigh people before they consent to sell them a McFatty sandwich. The only people this lfs is going to hurt is themselves. They will not last long if they foolishly try to keep this policy. It is, after all, a business. And if you don't make a profit, you don't stay in business. It is possible to sell fish ethically and responsibly without trying to be "big brother". If it isn't already, this store's name should be "The Fish Nazis". I have to laugh

[fish_taste_good]

The Fish Nazi is taken by the owner of Fish and Other Ichthy Things. I believe his name here is ichthyman (John).

as for filling out a form, thats a bit too much. What stops someone from lying? If people ant something, the will get it.

[NTidd]

Originally posted by koj11
If a lfs doesn't want to deal with returns, the answer is as simple as instituting a strict return policy (which could include having customers sign copies at the time of purchase). Now, the store deciding as to who can or cannot buy this fish or that coral, this is truly ridiculous. Maybe when I go grocery shopping next, the store will decide that I am not hungry enough or have the proper cooking equipment to properly prepare my food and not sell it to me. Or Mcdonald's could decide to weigh people before they consent to sell them a McFatty sandwich. The only people this lfs is going to hurt is themselves. They will not last long if they foolishly try to keep this policy. It is, after all, a business. And if you don't make a profit, you don't stay in business. It is possible to sell fish ethically and responsibly without trying to be "big brother". If it isn't already, this store's name should be "The Fish Nazis". I have to laugh

We are talking about lives here rather than food tho.

[koj11]

I understand that we are talking about the "lives of fish", but it really is ridiculous. Some people won't go to this store because of that policy (I certainly wouldn't). Others will go and (as has been suggested already) lie about their system to get whatever they want anyways. Ultimately, this elitist policy will only hurt the bank account of the store owner who has the egotistical opinion that he should decide who is and is not able to keep certain fish and corals.

[DgenR8]

I don't think it's such a bad idea.

What gets me is the LFS that will sell anything to anyone with enough $$$$ in their pocket to buy it. I find it refreshing that there is someone trying to protect the animal, AND THE BUYER. It's in the consumer's best interest NOT to add something to their system that isn't compatible with what's already there. to the guy that cares enough to have such a policy. Since when is it private knowedge what you keep in your tank? I share that info with just about anyone that's willing to listen to me yammer on about it......

[SciGuy2]

Great. I'll fill out their questionnaire and they can fill out mine.

1) where is the fish from?
2) are you certain that the fish was collected via net and not via a chemical collection technique? state reasons for your ascertation
3) was the fish collected from and area such that there was little environmental impact to the reef? (ie from a reef that is not overfished)
4) when was the fish collected?
5) how long was the fish held by the collector? by the exporter? by the importer? by you?
6) is the fish eating in captivity? what is it eating?

Actually they can fill out my questionnaire and if I'm still interested I'll fill out their questionnaire.

[DgenR8]

I realize this is a BIG assumption, but assuming that the seller knows about the animal in question, what it eats, what it's compatible with, space requirements etc, why not provide some background on you system and experience/knowledge in the hobby so they can help you save the animal and the money if for what ever reason you can't properly house the animal?
Let's face it, if you have a tank full of triggers, and are looking to purchase a Bat fish or pipe fish, without knowing any better, wouldn't you want the LFS to refuse to sell it to you?
Once your information is in the hands of the (assumed) knowledgeable seller, he can better serve you. It's not like they are asking for your Social Security # and mother's maiden name. I think what this store is doing is admirable.
SciGuy2, You have some very good questions there, questions I would like to know the answers to before I make a purchase. Sadly, I think you know as well as I that the LFS is not likely to know the answers to most of them.
I think you're seeing it as an invasion of privacy, I see it as a very real attempt to do the right thing for the hobbyist, and the animal. I've never filled out such a form, but the owner of my favorite LFS knows what's in my tank, because I've told him, and bought much of it from him. I honestly don't feel like he's pried into something private, I offered that information willingly. Maybe I'm lucky to have a LFS guy that I consider a friend, and don't mind telling him about my tank, and what I keep in it. Then again, I have pictures in my gallery that show anyone who wants to look what I have in my tank, and the equipment I use to keep it running. To me, there's no reason to keep that a secret.

[GreshamH]

If its Fish & Other Ichthy Stuff your talking about, I can vouch for his livestock, so can Mary. John deals with best in the industry. John is extremelly environmentally concerned, unlike 99% of other LFS. He is very knowledgable person and I'd personally be honored to be able to buy from his store. Unfortunatly, I live across the states from him and his store, so thats not going to ever be possiable.

[SciGuy2]

DgenR8,

Honestly, I'm supportive of any LFS that takes the time to get to know their customer and their system and offer advice. I do feel that a formal questionaire is a bit much.

My comments are really about another issue: we should demand more accountablity from our LFS regarding where livestock comes from, how it's captured, and how it's handled.

[DgenR8]

Originally posted by SciGuy2
DgenR8,

Honestly, I'm supportive of any LFS that takes the time to get to know their customer and their system and offer advice. I do feel that a formal questionaire is a bit much.
I think the paper makes it easier for them to keep track, would you be willing to answer the same questions verbally?

My comments are really about another issue: we should demand more accountablity from our LFS regarding where livestock comes from, how it's captured, and how it's handled.

That's a nice thought, but the LFS only knows what their supplier tells them. There is very little chance of a LFS being able to tell you, with any degree of certainty that "this fish here was net caught, that one wasn't" or "these fish in this tank spent 4 days in transit from Figi, those there took nearly twice as long"
Even if they somehow had this information on all their fish, I suspect very few LFS would be willing to tell you the negatives.

BTW, we're all friends here, Lee. Please, call me Larry

[SciGuy2]

Sounds good, Larry. Please feel free to call me Lee.

I understand the LFS point of view. It's just a shame that many fish have to endure such inhuman treatment from collection to retail. I saw a study that said that some fish have 80% mortality from reef to retail.

[Mr. 6]

I wouldn't buy from these people. It's my money and if I want to throw it down the drain I will. It is still my right to do that (for now).

I agree with the other poster....I would make them answer my questions and then if i was still interested I would maybe fill ou the one they have.

[SeanT]

Originally posted by Mr. 6
I wouldn't buy from these people. It's my money and if I want to throw it down the drain I will.

And they wouldn't sell to you then.
It's their store you abide by their rules or get out.

Simple enough.

[Mr. 6]

Originally posted by SeanT
And they wouldn't sell to you then.
It's their store you abide by their rules or get out.

Simple enough.

true, either I'll be there to laugh when they go under, and I'll be getting 30-50% off in the sale, or I'll be there when they learn that what they are doing will put them under and they stop doing it.


They'll either have to stop doing it, or go under. That is my prediction.

[NTidd]

Originally posted by Mr. 6
true, either I'll be there to laugh when they go under, and I'll be getting 30-50% off in the sale, or I'll be there when they learn that what they are doing will put them under and they stop doing it.


They'll either have to stop doing it, or go under. That is my prediction.

Or they will sell fish to responsible reef keepers, and educate those that don't know what they are doing and help the overall mortality rate. I wish there were more lfs's that knew this much about reefs. I don't understand how this would cause a fish shop to go under, lfs's that give bad advice hurts business more than what this would, jmo.

[DensityMan]

Honestly, I like the practice...

Too often during my time working for an LFS I 'had' to sell something to a know-nothing, loud-mouth who wouldn't listen to reason... only to have to deal with that same person a day/week later *****ing that the damn fish died and that it was my job to replace it (regardless of no-return policies).

I would much rather buy healthy fish from a store looking to sell to responsible reef-keepers (and newbies wanting to learn) then to buy livestock in the state I have to normally in stores that bank on selling quantity over quality.

Just my 2 cents...

As long as the fish are healthy and the prices reasonable the shop should do well.

[Mr. 6]

humans in general do not like being told what to do.

By making customers sign these things all they are doing is losing customers.

They might be idiot customers, but money is money.

That is why i believe they will go under. There just isnt' enough responsible people, and even some of them will not like this, to keep the place afloat.

And besides, I'm a grown man and I do not like to be treated like a child, that is why I won't put up with what they are doing.