Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

[MiddletonMark]

That's an interesting idea, which seems to jive with what I've seen.

It also explains why so many have run elevated Alk levels [esp back 5 years] without issue - which is something that IMO needs an answer which fits both the new observations + old observations.

[SDguy]

One of my most dramatic color changes so far....a very finicky wild tricolor....from this in mid october:


To this now:

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

Originally posted by stony_corals
... Mesocosm seems to think this is caused by photoinhabition as a result of the very clear water....

My use of the term "photo-inhibition" over in the chemistry forum was intended as a general description for the purpose of furthering discussion in that particular thread. We have to start the analysis somewhere, yes?


I do not pretend to have a definitive answer ...


In my read of the threads pertaining to this subject in ZEOville, there appear to be four main tangents:

(1) Damage resulting from a correlation with either excessive intensity, or excessive photoperiod (frequency = ~50%);
(2) Damage resulting from a correlation with what is perceived as respiratory (or metabolic, if you prefer) behavior of the coral host, and/or its associated bacteria (frequency = ~30%);
(3) Damage which currently cannot be directly correlated to either intensity, photoperiod, or respiraton (frequency = ~10%);
(4) Damage that is subsequently identified as resulting from another cause, i.e., transport shock, careless handling, pest infestation, frenzied dwarf angelfish attacks ... et cetera (frequency = ~10%).

It is perhaps worth noting that the damage (when not associated with "another" cause) is typically temporary (~65%), and its progression is usually halted by either raising the lighting, by decreasing the photoperiod, and/or by altering "dosing" (typically lowering).



For the record, I discount the 'clearer water' ... hmmm ... "explanation". I have a hard time reconciling a relatively minor turbidity shift as the fundamental cause of the so-called RTN or STN that's being described.



JMO ... HTH

[stony_corals]

Happy New Year all!

Sorry Mesocosm, didn't mean to put words in your mouth

The challenging part with the four hypothesis posited, is that the hobby doesn't have a means to, in the very least, come any closer to the "truth". It'd take scientific effort, time and $$$. Even some of the 'big names' that are both in the hobby and work as scientists have equated Zeovit with starving corals...

I've seen the clearer water effect and can say that it's more clear than actively pushing the water column through a lot of carbon.

The other variable in play seems to be the "burned tips" vs. "basal recession".... Though I don't think the later to be related to vodka/carbon dosing/probiotic approaches...

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

Originally posted by stony_corals
... The challenging part with the four hypothesis posited, is that the hobby doesn't have a means to, in the very least, come any closer to the "truth". ...

On a straight-up empirical level? No question ... this is why some of my assertions & speculations get slapped around merrily by folks like Chris Jury when the discussion gets down to the hardcore, nitty-gritty science.

And rightly so ... fruit loops, anyone?

The thing is, I would suggest that we CAN get at stuff alot more useful than the mere correlations with which we're currently hobbled. MiddletonMark suggested THE entirely correct question. When we figure out what the common variable (or set of variables) which reconciles the "classic" data set with the "bacterioplankton" data set with regards to alkalinity is ... we will have figured out something worth knowing.

Originally posted by stony_corals
... Even some of the 'big names' that are both in the hobby and work as scientists have equated Zeovit with starving corals...

When I look at the literature, the linkage between decreased zooxanthellae density, and the terms "starvation" and "bleaching" is pretty hard to miss. Hardly surprising that legitimate scientists & researchers would assert the connection. The ZEOvit system's manufacturer assertions regarding the system's downward manipulation of zooxanthellae density ...absent a coherent, non-promotional explanation of how the system functions ... invites a critical association with the terms "starvation" and "bleaching". It is also perhaps worth noting that both Korallenzucht and Fauna Marin make explicit reference to the risks of lowered nutrient levels when using their products. If they're not talking about something which could be legitimately described as "starvation" ... then what are they talking about?

Originally posted by stony_corals
... I've seen the clearer water effect and can say that it's more clear than actively pushing the water column through a lot of carbon. ...

I've seen the "clearer water" effect in my own ZEOsystem. It's actually kind of impressive: ozone crystal clarity without ozone. You've got to love it. It might also be noted that vodka and/or sugar dosing sometimes ellicts the same observation from users. Even so, I remain skeptical that a turbidity shift is THE causal factor.

Originally posted by stony_corals
... Sorry Mesocosm, didn't mean to put words in your mouth ...

No worries, my friend ... ... Happy New Year back at you ... ... and everyone else !



JMO ... HTH