Is this stuff good for macroalgae?

[kae]

Is this product good for marine plants as their nitrogen source? Thank you.

http://www.petlifeinc.com/index.php?...ask=view&id=16

[Samala]

Looks like it could work, I wish it said precisely what it uses as its nitrogen source (potassium nitrate, sodium nitrate, etc.)

>Sarah

[Plantbrain]

True aquatic plants, as well as submersed marsh plants, share in common many things, among them the approximate ratio of carbon to nitrogen to phosphorus (C:N:P, or Redfield-Richards Ratio) of an average molecule making up their tissue. In conditions of optimal light, temperature, and adequate available carbon and micronutrient concentrations, maintaining a N:P ratio of 10-20:1 (10-20 nitrogen atoms per 1 phosphorus atom) keeps plant growth steady, which in turn has been shown to severely limit the growth of unwanted algae;

Well the RR is an atomic ratio, not mass, which is what these clowns seem to assume here.

Geeze...if I had a nickel for everytime someone messed up the mass vs Atoms ratio I'd be rich.


Convert atoms to mass for N and P using molar weights.

You'll see what I mean...............

RR is terms of mass is 7.2 N: 1P

Not 16:1.


[quote]
all other things being equal, greatly exceeding this N:P ratio (particularly by having an overabundance of phosphate with all other nutrients present) may actually encourage algae growth.
[quote]

In FW, this is patently false, there is no evidence for this and it's border line an outright lie.
You'll note, all things being equal, that suggest non limiting.

I'll challenge anyone to show this.

Show me how 1ppm vs 5 ppm encourages algae in a FW system.
Neither 1ppm nor 5 ppm is limiting to any algae or plant I know of, so how can this possibly be correct?

It's falsifiable and even a newbie can show that.

I hate when these fert folks sell and market stuff they are clueless about. And they incur my full wrath for not doing their homework.

One mechanism by which algae growth may be suppressed is the exudation of phenolic and other compounds by the plants themselves during growth; these compounds appear to inhibit the growth of algae (and true plants, to a much lesser extent).

Again, easily faslifiable. Ole , myself and Tropica all say this is baloney based on the past research and some rather simple experiments anyone can do to rule out such poppycock speculation.

Again, some rather simple test to see if the claim is true is not that hard.

If you assume this to be true, simply adding activated carbon, which quickly removes the organic compounds and is the control in all allelopathic studies, should induce algae, yet folks have long used carbon and never seen any relationship, in fact and reverse correlation is observed, less algae with carbon use..........

also, what are the odds, given that we see little noxious algae with 300 species of plants over wide conditions universally....that they all produce the same anti algae compounds that all work at the same intensity no matter the concentration?

Billions and billions to one.
Has this theory ever been shown to occur in a natural system?

No.

So............

As a well-maintained planted aquarium ages and the concentration of these compounds increases, the likelihood for algal proliferation decreases.

Correlation does not = causation.
Such simple test such as doing large water changes/activated carbon etc rules such hypothesis speculation.

And that.......... rather than fear and speculation to sell some miracle in a bottle......... helps the hobby.

Maintaining the recommended N:P ratio is simply a way to help achieve greater plant growth while reducing the chances for problems with algae. In heavily planted aquariums, particularly those with intense lighting and Co2 supplementation (10-15 mg/l), it is often necessary to supplement nitrogen and phosphorus, as well as many other nutrients, in order to facilitate steady plant growth, health, and coloration.

This part is true although the CO2 levels are bit dated, by about 10 years.

Bottom line: use KNO3, it cost 2$ pound which ought to last several years for most reef/macro algae folks.

All you need :

Some decent Fe source, KNO3, KH2PO4, Ca, alk sources, routine water changes, heavy aeration(lots of micro bubbles floating around and good current)

That's about it.

I know both side of the FW and marine plants but when folks write this drivel up, it does no service to the hobby.

Then everyone and the LFS's repeat it in parrot like fashion as fact or dogma.

Then they question me like I'm clueless when I call them on it ironically

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Plantbrain]

See Rex Grigg.com and aquarium fertilizers.com for good prices on KNO3 and other goodies.

Both folks are hobbyists.

They will have a Fe species marine mix in about 1 month being sold through these folks. It does not use ETDA which is pH/alk specific for soft acidic FW water. The pH range for this is about 7-10 and alk's from 100ppm to 400ppm. which is perfect for our use and given that marine macros do not use root uptake, it needs to be available in the water column, not precipitated out rapidly.

NO3 is NO3 is NO3, does not matter what cation salt you use, but Ca(NO3)2 is perhaps more useful than KNO3.

It's cheap also.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[kae]

Very long post, thanks for sacrificing your time.

It's not easy to find good grade chemical substance at acceptable price in my country. Most hobbyist here have to rely on commercial product like this and there are not many choices for us.

If I understand you correctly, you tried to tell me that this stuff is not good as it claimed, isn't it? So could you please recommend any other brands which are better?

Originally posted by Plantbrain
NO3 is NO3 is NO3, does not matter what cation salt you use, but Ca(NO3)2 is perhaps more useful than KNO3.

What is the reason behind the above statement? Thank you very much.

[Plantbrain]

I'm not sure if you have access to Singapore products, Dr Mallick's sells KNO3 and all the other products. Other folks sell the products in Thailand, I'm not sure where, but I know SG better.

The products are just a lot more costly.

Stump remover is often sold and is KNO3.
Salt Petre at the pharmacy is also KNO3.
KNO3 is sold to use for making blackpowder for rockets, old musket type guns etc.

The statement was to point out that NO3 is not a brand name thing, a company label does not mean anything different if they both dilute sodium or Potassium nitrate in water..........

Ca(NO3)2, calcium nitrate might be easier to find.

You should look locally at a FARM FERTILIZER SUPPLY STORE/ETC.


Regards,
Tom Barr