STILL cant lower NO3!!!! - Page 2

boxfishpooalot · #26 09/07/2006, 04:32 PM

Well imo,

All the tank of the months have:

Deep sand bed(most of them)

Randy has a deep sugar fine sand bed of 6" in his refugiums. And his trate is undetectable

(lucky guY)

Ryanqk · #27 09/07/2006, 04:35 PM

hmmmm ok well i guess ill go look for some fine sand then, and go from there...

reefkeeper2 · #28 09/07/2006, 08:37 PM

Do a search on the deep sand bucket. It reduced my nitrates to undetectable. Basically its just a bucket of deep sand that you run your tank water through over the top and back to your tank or sump. Very easy. Very cheap . Works great.

coltsfan80 · #29 09/08/2006, 05:32 PM

I;m gonna tag onto this thread too..I too have a high nitrate problem. I am using a skimmer that produces about a cup full of dark skimmate every week. I bought a pretty large ball of chaeto algae. I us ro/di water. I do large water changes and within a week the nitrates go from around 20 back up to off of the charts. I feed a very small amount of zooplankton every couple of days..i have a small clown and a blue damsel. I have 40 or so lbs of LR and a 2 inch dbs..29gal tank. Since I put the algae in about 3 weeks ago I havent noticed a change. I was told that if the algae doesnt die it will reduce the nitrates...well still waiting...I have canister filter but i am only running carbon, purigen and denitrate..i clean it weekly...I have tried the chemicals..evven though I dont like too..I tried the amquel plus and i really cant remember what the other stuff was..but it didnt work either....I am about to try the sugar or vodka trick because I too am at my witts end.. I will be upgrading in less than a year..but I gotta get these out of control nitrates in control because if I ccant get these down..I might just give up...any ideas????where else in the world could these nitrates be coming from???? I also have used different test kits...all other parameters are fine....I have tested the ro/di salt water and it is 0 ppm for nitrate....I am so out of ideas...so instructions on the sugar/vodka trick would be helpful...ie what type of sugar...how much for a 29gal

Ryanqk · #30 09/08/2006, 06:01 PM

coltsfan80 is your tank only 3 months old? if so it may be that your tank is still too young and may correct itself after a couple more months. Also purigen needs to be bleached once every couple weeks to regenerate it.

coltsfan80 · #31 09/08/2006, 06:24 PM

its 4 1/2 months old...high nitrates from the very beginning. When i bought my rock it was out of a display tank..if that matters...I tried bleaching it once. other than that I just buy new...too scared I might not get all the bleach out and kill my fish....I would think after almost 5 months. with all other parameters fine...that the nitrates would have least started to fall by now..heck if anything they have gotten higher

xclan · #32 09/09/2006, 02:47 AM

The vodka method I would use with extreme caution. From what I have read....one mistake and your entire tank is goners

Dr4g0nf1y · #33 09/09/2006, 06:49 AM

I've actually used AZNO3 with remarkable success. Took about a month or so but it worked fine.

Ryanqk · #34 09/09/2006, 07:42 AM

see someone else said it didnt work at all for them. But i see that alot of additives take about a month to really see results, i might try it and see what happens, at least i spent the extra cash on a nice skimmer recently, so i can use methods like azno3 and sugar, i guess id be up a creek without a paddle if i hadnt.
hey does anyone else agree that the denitrator from randy's article sounds similiar at least in theory to sugar dosing, just under more controlled circumstances? Julian Sprung gave a speech last month at our local club meeting in which he addressed sugar dosing and pretty much agreed that it can work if done right, but that it hadnt gained acceptance yet in the US. So im inclined to think the sugar might help if i can just figure out how to do it right.
Ryan

Randy Holmes-Farley · #35 09/09/2006, 08:28 AM

Dosing sugar directly to the aquarium mostly drives aerobic bacterial growth, and they only use nitrate as a nitrogen source to build their tissue.

In a carbon denitrator, the bacteria are in a low O2 environment, and they use nitrate as aerobic bacteria use O2. They strip they oxygen from it and use it, leaving N2. So they not only use nitrate to grow, but also to get energy from organics.

GrowDammit · #36 09/09/2006, 05:02 PM

I do

GrowDammit · #37 09/09/2006, 05:02 PM

I do

Randy Holmes-Farley · #38 09/09/2006, 05:21 PM

What do you do?

GrowDammit · #39 09/09/2006, 05:33 PM

I do not mean to interupt, but I too am having a similar nitrate situation on a tank I care for. Only, this system is about 2 years old. Things need to be upgraded, but there is no room to do so in the tank's stand. The nitrate issue started after a VOC toxicity, about 4 months ago. It is a 150 gal, 5 ft. custom built acrylic tank with a 35 gal acrylic sump. There is no skimmer (we've tried adding one, they won't allow it), we run a filter sock with 1 to 1.5# of rinsed Reef Carbon, a Phos-ban reactor, 5 inch DSB (Fiji Pink Carib Sea, sugar grainsized) and approx 110# Fiji Premium Live Rock.

I use all Salifert Test Kits and have recently (in last 10 days, started using new ones; to see if that was a piece of the puzzle. Nope, Consistent results). Ammonia: <0.25, Nitrate: 75, Nitrite: 0.05, Salinity: 1.024, pH: 8.4, Phosphate: Undetectable. This system is topped off routinely with water from a household RO?System (the household has well water). Two weeks ago, I tested all of the parameters on the RO top off water. They were completely normal/undetectable, the system had just been serviced by its installer.

Any saltwater used is mixed up at our place using our RO/DI water.

The VOC toxicity incident occured when the homeowner had the "100 year old" hardwood floors stripped and re-done. We had not been notified of the project and the home owner was out of town. The day it occured I was onsite within 3 hours of occurance and immediately did a 40 gallon partial and replaced the filter sock with a clean one filled with 3 lbs of rinsed kent Reef Carbon. There was a 3 inch layer of orange foam in the sump. I continued doing partials daily and changing the carbon out every other day for another week. At the end of the first week the nitrates were in a measureable range 100 ppm. Over the next three weeks, Ammonia and Nitrites fell to acceptable ranges and continued to drop to current measured levels.

However, the Nitrates only dropped to 75 ppm. I re-seeded the tanks with a cup of live sand from each of our established systems in our fish room. The Nitrates fell to 50 ppm, we'd added another fish (we had lost a 6 in yellow tang and a adult coral beauty in the first month ofter the toxicity incident), a Purple tang. Over two weeks the NO3 were back up to 75. I had the homeowner reduce the food and am researching NO3 reducers and any other "economical" means of reducing the NO3. It's become the bane of my existence, as the homeowner is insistent upon adding more fish and inverts.

Thanks in advance!

Billybeau1 · #40 09/09/2006, 06:16 PM

Danielle, read this when you get a chance.

Nitrates in the Reef Aquarium

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

GrowDammit · #41 09/09/2006, 06:37 PM

Thank you Billy. I had tried the link that had been posted previously and it didn't work for me. This one did. I have printed out the article for further perusing and to keep on hand.

My husband and I are going to run an "experiment" w/ a Remora HOB skimmer, attached to the sump, next week. It is one we have previously used on a 29 gallon nanoreef of our own. We are going to show the housekeeper how to clean it. If it is effective, we will see what we can do about selling the idea to the homeowner. Hopefully the proof will be in the pudding.

The only thing the homeowner does with this system is feed. And occasionally, they overfeed. I've asked them several times if they keep to the appropriate schedule I have detailed for them . . . You know how that goes!

Thanks for the link. I will keep you guys posted!

Ryanqk · #42 09/09/2006, 10:34 PM

thanks to Bullredchaser, i might have located the source of my nitrates, ill be removing my fluval cansiter filter soon to see if it makes a difference, after i get a new powerhead to keep the cirulation up.... He stopped by by earlier and sugjested i try it and i think it may help.....

Csxno1 · #43 09/10/2006, 05:41 AM

Does anyone think that the phos-ban reactor could be "harboring" nitrates? The intake is out of the sump, before the water enters the sump it flows through a filter sock with carbon in it. Other than food and a "dead" DSB, I can't think of anything else. The article was helpful, if it was my own system, instead of one I only see every two weeks or so, this would be a little different.

Then again . . . it wouldn't have had the VOC toxicity if it had been my personal system!

Just racking my brain at 6 am!
Sorry, this computer was logged under my husband's account.
Danielle
P.S. Once again . . . too early~

Randy Holmes-Farley · #44 09/10/2006, 06:56 AM

I don't think a Phosban reactor with Phosban in it is a big source of nitrate, but replace the Phosban with new material if you want to eliminate it as a source of bacterial growth.

60Cubed · #45 09/10/2006, 10:14 AM

I will tell you in my experience with nitrates. I had a 65 tall. this tank is a 55 reg but a little taller. I had nitrates soooo bad. I did water changes, added more rock, more sand. I did a 5 gal water change every day for a month. Still high nitrates. Did I ever find out why? Of course and I'll tell you what your problem is. It is your tanks total area. A reef tank should be as deep as it is tall.
you are not there. You can be deeper than tall but not taller than deep. I never could get my nitrates down in that tank. So I sold it and bought a 75 reg, used the same sand and rock, nitrates = 0.
Never had another problem with them. Every tank since has been depth=height or height Lance

neuroslicer · #46 09/10/2006, 10:43 AM

There are several reasons why you changing tanks could produce a change in nitrates other than the length (or area as you put it) of the tank. Having a taller tank means that using the same volume of sand as before, you now have a deeper sand bed, and most likely it has a greater population of denitrifying anaerobic bacteria at the bottom. Even the rearrangement of live rock and the water flow around the rock could change denitrifying capabilities of your rock. It's the inner crevices of the rock that become oxygen deprived that serve as home to the anaerobic bacteria. Altering rock position and water flow can change that. And you've added 10 more gallons of volume to your habitat, reducing the nitrate load per gallon.

60Cubed · #47 09/10/2006, 10:47 AM

why did it work then i used the same rock sand and corals. explain that to me?

60Cubed · #48 09/10/2006, 11:06 AM

all i can tell you is that i did every thing i could to reduce the nitrates in that tank. from what i read there is something about total area of the sand bed as related to the water volume. this is supposed to have an effect on the tank. and nitrates were one of the factors discussed. i do not have my sprung book any longer but that is where i read about it. i am not saying that it is the entire problem but could be a factor. it took care of mine. i have not had a problem one since i used that rule as a factor in tank demensions. thats my experience.

GrowDammit · #49 09/10/2006, 01:26 PM

Thanks Randy! We were planning on changing it this week anyway, the media is approx 2 months old. I know Mr. Sprung says it is good for up to 3 months, but I don't take any chances, plus we had to mix a few 5 gal buckets of saltwater up with the homeowners' tap (well) water during the toxicity crisis (their RO reservoir was empty after two buckets worth, and that stuff had to be better than the VOC contaminated water). The Phosban media was changed within 12 hours.

Gonefeefin:
This tank is 5 feet wide by 24 inches deep by 24 inches tall . . .
Not sure you were talking to me, but I just wanted to clarify.

Thanks guys!

coltsfan80 · #50 09/10/2006, 05:05 PM

when dosing sugar..how much and what kind of sugar?