DSB in a bucket for nitrate control - Page 17

mlb75 · #**401** 05/11/2007, 10:00 AM

Well from the sounds of it they already know everything so it would be a waste of your time. Typical LFS.

As for needing oxygen well there's oxygen in the water, so what do they think it needs an air stone? Sounds like they're probably also pushing wet dry's, no wonder they're having problems. I definitely wouldn't be buying anything alive from them.

KEstep · #**402** 05/12/2007, 11:47 PM

I just wanted to post an update to my RDSB. I set mine up in January 06. I moved my 75 into a 150 today and looked into my bucket. The top layer was nasty so I scoped about 10 lbs. of sand of the top and all the sand under that was immaculately clean. I just replaced the top part with new sand and plugged it back in. For anyone wondering if this works, it does. I have not had detectable nitrates for the last 12 months. It took the bucket a few months to seed but after that, none. I use oolitic carib sea sugar sand in a 6 gallon kent marine salt bucket. BTW, none of my sand had clumped together.

Daemonfly · #**403** 05/13/2007, 11:22 PM

Hows the flow over the top of that bucket? Sounds like more detrius is settling than would be desired.

Either way, nice to hear it's been working great for you. I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate one into my 75g build.

tcmfish · #**404** 05/15/2007, 10:46 PM

So I was thinking about the RDSB idea and couldnt a sandfilter be similar. You can backflush these which would be a way to do a waterchange as detrius built up in it. I think they are usually used for ponds but they can be used on saltwater too.

WT · #**405** 05/16/2007, 12:32 AM

I was running RDSB for about 3 weeks (12" x 12" x 7" height of sand) and I just find out that almost half of my sand turn in black. Is this normal or something wrong with my sand/setup? FYI, I am using glass box for RDSB but I covered it with brown paper.

Black71gp · #**406** 05/16/2007, 06:28 AM

ok one more question.. i am building a new sump/lagoon. i am makeing a tank somewhere around 12x4x30" deep. i will use a major part of this as a RDSB and a sea grass/macro tank. with the sea grasses i know i need at least 6" of sand.. should i go with like 8-10" to aid in the added nitrate reduction. i am fighting nitrates of about 50ppm with my current BB set up.. i have a really really hi bioload as well.. lmk what you think
thanks

the other tang · #**407** 05/16/2007, 09:59 AM

IMO, do both but seperately. Keeping a dsb in low light prevents algae. The grasses would need some light and cause an issue for the dsb. Thats not to say you can't cover half of what you are building for a dsb and leave the rest open for grasses. Best of both worlds.

pluvialis · #**408** 05/16/2007, 04:13 PM

I have left my RDSB offline by accident 2 times now. I forget to plug in the PH that supplies the water to it. After flushing with about 15 gallons of saltwater, The water coming out of the RDSB still had a slightly bad smell. I hooked it up to the tank and everything is fine. This happened Last week

reefez · #**409** 05/19/2007, 11:56 PM

Well I utilized an empty bucket of reef crystals today for my tank. I'm tired of fighting nitrate in the 10-20ppm range so I broke down and did what my reef has probably needed for a few months now. I'll post updates as I see the levels comeing down. I have a question. My bucket is right in my sump, and I am feeding it water from the skimmer outlet. The water is going straight from the skimmer overflow to the bucket. I have 60lbs. of Natures Ocean Argonite in the bucket. It is the bio active reef sand. Their is over 10 in. in the bucket. My question is should I put a sponge or some filter floss after the skimmer overflow water before it goes into the bucket? I think the water that exits my skimmer is pretty clean with not too much for filter floss or a sponge to catch. I noticed this morning after I added the first 2 bags of sand that my corals all had great PE. More then usual which was nice to see. My tank has been bb for 3 months now so I'm thinking the sand is going to be real nice for Ph stableazition, and hopefully soon Nitrate reduction. Their is approx. 145-155gph being ran over the top of the DSB.

Nitro350Z · #**410** 05/20/2007, 01:25 PM

Since the water supply is coming from your skimmer, using a filter sock would be kinda pointless. Anything that could settled in the RDSB would have already been taken out by the skimmer and if anything would have gone by then there should be enough flow so that it just passes over the sand and out to the sump.

Hopefully that makes sense.

HTH

fishymann · #**411** 05/22/2007, 05:42 AM

Would this work;
mag 3 pump , pumps water from sump into 5 gallon bucket (full of sand) bucket drains back into sump?

Or should i re do my plumbing and run my drains first into the DSB bucket then have that drip directly into the sump?

Also would play sand from HD or Lowes be okay even though i've read about silica based sand causing algae problems?
Anyone want to share pictures of diagrams of how they plumbed theirs? thanks

pluvialis · #**412** 05/22/2007, 01:46 PM

Fishyman, You want the cleanest water possible going into the RDSB so coming from the sump would prolly be better than coming from the main tank.

Ive had RDSB for about a year now. I was thinking aboiut hooking the pump that delivers water to the RDSB to a timer. This would allow some stagnant water to accumulate in the RDSB and decrease Oxygen levels in the upper areas of the sand bed as well. I think with having the pump off for the right amount of time u can find that balance between low O2 levels and a rotting sand bed. Has anyone tried this? What u guys think?

fishymann · #**413** 05/22/2007, 02:46 PM

Should i T my return then? So instead of all the water going back to the display it splits and some goes into the DSB then once it does i have it empty back into the sump?

Any ideas on the sand?

KEstep · #**414** 05/22/2007, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pluvialis
Fishyman, You want the cleanest water possible going into the RDSB so coming from the sump would prolly be better than coming from the main tank.

Ive had RDSB for about a year now. I was thinking aboiut hooking the pump that delivers water to the RDSB to a timer. This would allow some stagnant water to accumulate in the RDSB and decrease Oxygen levels in the upper areas of the sand bed as well. I think with having the pump off for the right amount of time u can find that balance between low O2 levels and a rotting sand bed. Has anyone tried this? What u guys think?

I dont think i would do that. The idea is to run a good amount of water over it quickly. By stopping flow you are allowing particles to land on the sand which could later cause problems.

the other tang · #**415** 05/23/2007, 03:42 PM

I agree about the timer, I do not think it would work. The aerobic bacteria in the upper layers of sand would likely die off.

As for the sand, SILICA IS SAFE. I have been running it for 8 months with 0 diatoms. This is one of those can o worms questions. Instead of giving you my opinion i will direct you to Randys article on silica in the chemestry forum.

fishymann · #**416** 05/23/2007, 04:28 PM

Thanks, just figure i mine as well keep this cheap and use sand from HD instead of the more expensive aquarium sand. I'm going to set this up and i'll let you guys know how it goes THANK!

Fusch13 · #**417** 05/24/2007, 09:12 AM

tag

asnatlas · #**418** 05/26/2007, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fusch13
tag

Anthony Calfo · #**419** 06/04/2007, 12:17 PM

the timer idea is not entirely bad or even new... its called batch denitrification and has been used for many many years (about 20 in the hobby and much longer in water treatment applications)

For an aquarium though... I would not advise it: it is likely more effort than its worth and quite a lot of tinkering to get then to work on small scale models. Nonetheless... if the topic interests you, use the terms in a key-phrase search. You may come across info from folks like Martin More discussing this over ten years ago. FWIW

Kindly, Anth-

mr.wilson · #**420** 06/04/2007, 12:38 PM

Batch denitrification isn't compatible with a simple timer system, as you need to aerate the treated water before reintroducing it to your system.

You could have the effluent run through an oxygen reactor or simple wet/dry column, but I don't think it's worth the trouble. A deep remote bed will have enough anaerobic zones to get the job done.

fatrip · #**421** 06/08/2007, 05:04 PM

hey guys i have been reading this thread for an hour and i still can find the answer to my question so please dont shun me for asking but i was wondering if it is better to use finer sand or more course sand? thanks

DrBDC · #**422** 06/08/2007, 06:00 PM

Well, I'm sure there's a debate on that. But just from a surface area available for bacteria to form, there would be much much more surface area w/the finer sand. Then if you think about it, would you suffocate under 4 ft of those large balls that they used to put at places like chucky cheezes, or under 4 ft of sand? That's why you can have a shallower sand bed with the oolitic vs. the reef grade size to accomplish the same thing. But if you have no restrictions on size and depth, it wouldn't matter and you could go with some cheap playsand from home depot/lowes.

a4twenty · #**423** 06/10/2007, 07:33 AM

i used sugar fine oolite and have no complaints.

MO Will · #**424** 06/18/2007, 06:13 AM

Hi guys

I started a DSB in a bucket in my 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank

My return pump is a Mag 7 so there is not a lot of flow in the sump

Should I try to position a PH with the output over the DSB to increase flow? I am worried that there is just not much flow past/over the DSB right now.

Thanks

32flavors · #**425** 06/20/2007, 03:10 AM

oh man, what a thread!! I apologize for what I'm sure is a redundant question--I've read much but not all of this thread...

I have a 120 I'm moving into...

Will a 5 gal bucket filled to 5" from top do it?

What is the recommended GPH through there, and would it be adviseable to have this in a stage say right after my Coil Denitrator but before the skimmer which I use for re-O2ing water before return to tank?

Flow:

overflow to safety chamber (I've seen some small fish Yashe Hashi, Blue-spot Watchmen end up in overflows, so I don't use a sock), thru 6 layers floss, to Coil Denitrator, sits in sump in case ever starts to leak, gravity dump to 2nd sump to LARGE macro chamber (CO2 rich CD water good for plants), to last chamber where water is skimmed before return. There's also a phosphate reactor I'm not using as my PO4 is zero that I'm toying with turning into a Sulphur Denitrator--it's back by the Coil denitrator.

What do you all think?