Aptasia Experiments

jnowell · #1 06/15/2006, 04:39 PM

Here's the deal, I have a 100g reef in my living room, I got a 125 and am finishing up the woodwork and will transfer everything soon.

Problem, the 100 and sump (55g) are COVERED in aptasia, upwards of 75, many of them full grown. I am raising berghia's so I needed an aptasia farm, and as long as I keep them away from everything else, they really don't do any harm.

Problem is, I now have an old 30g set up as my aptasia farm, and I want to COMPLETELY rid the reef of them at the time of transfer....without killing the biofilter bacteria of course

I've had some luck with the combination of hypersalinity coupled with a heavy formalin dose...the bacteria survives, but I got a sizeable diatom bloom, so a good portion of it got nuked with the aptasia.

Anyone have any ideas? Methyline blue also worked, but it took weeks to kill the aptasia, and stained the rocks blue. I have a perfect lab for trying any ideas, a 55g with nothing in it, cycled and ready...not to mention plenty of "test subjects" muhahaha.

Even if I kill some of the bacteria, I can live with that, I just don't want to kill off all the anaerobes and destroy the natural denitrification within the rocks. I have places to hold the fish and corals, but i seriously don't want ANY aptasia making it into the 125. I have (and have used) all of the "standard" aptasia killing products and animals, but none of them will for sure give me a tank free of the little pests. I'm thinking something along the lines of a bath that I can run all the rock through that will send the aptasia to it's death without destroying the bacteria in the rock.

Any Ideas? Was that long winded enough?

Jason

jnowell · #2 06/19/2006, 02:41 PM

125 views - no suggestions? C'mon, I thought you guys were SMART!

Travis L. Stevens · #3 06/19/2006, 02:45 PM

I'm afraid that without the help of Berghia nudibranchs, you are out of luck. And even then, it couldn't garuntee you a 100% success rate. As far as getting rid of Aiptasia without hurting the bacteria on your rocks, I think there would be no possible way. Technically, even when you inject an aiptasia with something, there is spill over that will harm the effected area of the excess. Injection would be safest, but there is no way you could get them all.

Carp1959 · #4 06/19/2006, 03:20 PM

I have some Blennies that i collected in galveston, tx and they completly take care of aptasia. Both my buddy and i put the blennies at the same time he had more aptasia than I did and we both had no aptasia until his died when he went out of town.

The other people in houston on MARSH say that they are moller miller blennies. but i have my doubts that mine are.

Justin

Travis L. Stevens · #5 06/19/2006, 03:22 PM

Interesting. I never knew that Molly Miller Blennies could do that (if that is true).

Carp1959 · #6 06/19/2006, 06:33 PM

All I know is that i had aptasia. I added these blennies. I have no more aptasia. I did nothing else to try to get rid of it.

In my buddies tank within 2-3 weeks of his blennies dieing he had aptasia again.

bchristie · #7 06/19/2006, 07:13 PM

The blenny is indeed Scartella cristata, the molly miller, they are quite abundant on the jetties and groins along the beachfront in Galveston, where they feed on a small local anenome, Aiptasiomorpha texaensis, and have been known to feed on Aiptaisa spp. in reef tanks.

The same habitat in Galveston that is home to Aiptasiomorpha texaensis and thus Scartella cristata, is also home to Lysmata wurdemanni, the peppermint shrimp, which is also a useful Aiptasia-vore.

One thing I would caution you on is to make sure you have a fishing liscence when collecting L. wurdemanni or S. cristata in Galveston...the local game wardens show no mercy and will take your car and everything else in your possesion if you get caught without one!

rcmike · #8 06/19/2006, 07:44 PM

Has anyone tried these blennies with majano anemones?

jnowell · #9 06/20/2006, 01:51 PM

Interesting, especially since I have a fishing license, and will be in Houston in a few weeks

Need to get that diving gear wet again anyhow (+ a saltwater stamp)

I still think there has to be a way to kill the aptasia chemically or otherwise without completely destroying all of the biofiltration of the rocks. I guess I can stick to hypersalinity and Formalin. It's neat to have a blenny eat it, but I don't want it PERIOD in the new tank. I think there could be a market for breeding those blennies too...hmmmm.

Jason

Carp1959 · #10 06/20/2006, 04:17 PM

unless somehow i got all males when i collected like 20 of them the don't like each other for the most part. Had them in a smaller tank to see which ones would survive before throwing them in to the 55 and they constantly chased each other around . If there is a way to sex them i would like to know. I have a spare Hex tank that i could use to try to breed them

Justin

fppf · #11 06/21/2006, 11:10 AM

I bought over 100 pounds of rock from a guy that was tearing down. It was really cheap but totally covered with the pest.

I rotated the rock through a 20 gallon QT tank with 6 ture pepperment shrimp in it. I did about 20-25 pounds at a time, about 4 to 5 pieces. Left it in there for a week or 2 until I saw no more aptasia and then waited until I started seeing the shrimp come out during the day. When they started to come out during the day that was a sign there was no more food for them to scavenge and they where really hungery. Then I would put in the next batch and the would feast again. When I was all done with the rock I put them in my main display for cleaning crew and I have never seen any aptasia yet.

jnowell · #12 06/22/2006, 09:38 AM

Fppf - You'll be VERY lucky if it doesn't come back. Pepps are nice, but they almost never get it all. How long has it been since you cleaned the rock? BTW - I have 4 pepps in this tank, they hardly make a dent...but they are getting to scavenge other foods too.

Justin, No clue on how to sex Blennies, but i'm planning a trip to Galveston soon. I've heard there are several pipefish species there as well, have you ever found any?

Jason

Carp1959 · #13 06/22/2006, 01:30 PM

yeah i've found the pipe fish in the sargasum. Which there was ALOT of it down there fathers day weekend. can get lots of small shrimp in the weed also for food for the rest of the tanks Let me know when you are going down i need to get some Peps and some feeder shrimp

Justin

jnowell · #14 06/22/2006, 01:44 PM

I KNOW I'll be there the weekend of MACNA, but I'll probably hit Galveston either over July 4th weekend, or sometime later in July. I'll let you know, I'm bringing my dive gear this time, so I'll do a little shore collecting, and then try my hand underwater too. If you're a diver, I'll be looking for a dive buddy!

Jason

fppf · #15 06/22/2006, 04:54 PM

I did this about 8 months ago and still clear and free.

The key is to have nothing else in the tank to eat. It is a little cruel in away but would you eat that stuff given a choice? Yes I agree just throwing in something that eats it wont solve the problem. Just like a few cleaner shrimp wont cure ich.

The KEY to my method and success is rotating small amounts of rock through a small tank with a lot of cleaners.

jnowell · #16 06/22/2006, 05:46 PM

Ahh, that makes more sense...but I'm still not sure I'd strust them completely to ENSURE that it never came back. I may let them have a crach at the rocks with corals on them.

I think i'm just going to revert to killing everything, including the bacteria. I will be severly upset if I went to all this trouble to transfer tanks, and ended up with aptasia again. I might give the pepps a chance at a few rocks and then move them to a fry tank to watch for a few weeks. Wasn;t planning on this taking a YEAR, but if it does, so be it i guess.

Thanks, any other ideas?

Jason

fppf · #17 06/22/2006, 07:01 PM

Good things take time.

Reefit · #18 06/22/2006, 11:41 PM

"Josies Juice" works great. See if you can get it at your lfs.

saltyunderground · #19 06/28/2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bchristie
The blenny is indeed Scartella cristata, the molly miller, they are quite abundant on the jetties and groins along the beachfront in Galveston, where they feed on a small local anenome, Aiptasiomorpha texaensis, and have been known to feed on Aiptaisa spp. in reef tanks.

The same habitat in Galveston that is home to Aiptasiomorpha texaensis and thus Scartella cristata, is also home to Lysmata wurdemanni, the peppermint shrimp, which is also a useful Aiptasia-vore.

One thing I would caution you on is to make sure you have a fishing liscence when collecting L. wurdemanni or S. cristata in Galveston...the local game wardens show no mercy and will take your car and everything else in your possesion if you get caught without one!

Do you know if this blennie is otherwise reef safe? I have heard of some blennies that eat clams, etc.

Travis L. Stevens · #20 06/28/2006, 09:49 AM

I've watched one in a store that we were going to get when we had a tank up for many months (~4 months). It was a model citizen. It did not pick at any of the many corals in the tank. It did occassionally perch itself on top of various corals which slightly aggitated them. I didn't see it eat Aiptasia though since there weren't any in the tank.

Fredfish · #21 06/29/2006, 03:16 AM

I also used L. wurdmanii to get rid of aptasia. Had them in my tank for 8 months and when I removed them the tank stayed aptasia free.

Not everyone has good success with these shrimps though.

Fred.

fish4red · #22 06/29/2006, 03:54 PM

I was just looking as some Joes Jucie that a friend of mine bought and its the exact same stuff I have been using for years and learned about on Garf's web site. Its Calcium Hydroxide....something most good reefers have already. The insturctions from Garf were to mix about a tablespoon of calcium Hydroxide powder with about 50 m/l of R/O .. then microwave for about 30 secs. Then inject it with a neele and surgine into the little pest. They will die with in 24 hours. This is only good for small out breaks. Coverd live rock....get the bergihas you will be glad you did. They are great unitl they have nothing left to eat then they die

mr.wilson · #23 07/01/2006, 02:26 AM

I would stick with a biological cure such as copperband or longnose butterflies, peppermint shrimp, and molly miller blennies.

Injecting a huge colony is out of the question. Calcium hydroxide or acid will kill a broad spectrum of marine-life with a PH shift. Hyposalinity would be ineffective as they have the ability to close up and cover themselves with a protective mucous membrane. Pouring salt on the rock and allowing it to slowly dissolve wouldn't effect PH but may not kill all of them.

If you had to go the chemical route, I would use copper at 30ppm for 7 days. It wouldn't adversely effect bacteria, only invertebrates and some of the coraline algae. Coraline algae will bounce back in a few months.

Don't worry too much about getting all of them, as you will likely introduce more with future coral purchases.

rcmike · #24 07/01/2006, 08:09 AM

Copper? Sorry, but are you crazy? This is a REEF tank.

mr.wilson · #25 07/01/2006, 11:10 AM

Yes I'm crazy, but my suggestion wasn't. Killing aiptasia without adversely affecting beneficial bacteria was the original question asked. I was suggesting treatment of the rocks only (REMOVE ALL INVERTEBRATES DURING TREATMENT). I prefer a "natural" cure, but I thought I'd give a safer alternative to the formalin and methylene blue treatments Jnowel was using.

Formalin is a carcinogen, it kills nitrifying bacteria, depletes dissolved oxygen levels and it contains methanol as a stabilizer. Methylene blue will dye the rocks, kill nitrobactor and all coraline algae. Copper is the most efficient poison for killing invertebrates (aiptasia in this case) without disrupting bacterial colonies.

Roughing up a copper wire with sandpaper and piercing the anemone will provide enough localized copper to kill it without adversely effecting other organisms. The difficulty is in manually carrying this out.

The overall idea is to use a localized poison or PH shock that is in high concentration for the anemone, and safe for the tank once it is dissipates. Calcium hydroxide (Joe's Juice) is caustic (PH shock) in the initial dose, then becomes bioavailable calcium once dissolved. Vinegar is acidic (PH shock) and is buffered out by calcareous media and chemical reactions in the aquarium. Non-buffered copper sulphate is absorbed by calcareous surfaces and falls out of solution in a few days. It can be completely removed with polymeric absorbents (polyfilters) or ion exchange resins (Kent toxic metal sponge). Copper is the only effective agent that can be dosed in full concentration to affect anemones throughout the tank. Treating with copper will kill all of the anemones, no matter where they are.