I want my T5-only tank to shimmer like it has halides!

[barjam]

I am switching out T5 for MH primarily for the shimmer. I found every time I go to the LFS or see someone else's tank I have shimmer envy and end up hating the look of my tank. T5s look sterile. My one and only complaint about T5s.

they are terribly expensive though- to give you an idea, about the price of a new Tunze Nano 6055. but as my tanks packed and i havent added anything to my system for a while, i thought to give it a try.

For that price I could buy 2-3 years (the difference between MH & T5 wattages on my tank) of MH. Do you know what LED they used? I tried a Lumanids and couldn't see it. Perhaps I just needed multiple LEDs.

Adding halogens doesn't make sense to me. If you add two 75 watt halogens to a T5 setup (for example) you negate the price difference in electricity between the T5/MH setup. Perhaps you would just rig up a "viewing" switch that that seems kind of lame to me.

I am not trying to bash T5s, I think they are great. If a guy doesn't care about shimmer lines I say go T5 all the way but if the guy wants shimmer lines it seems T5 isn't a good solution.

[DarG]

I like T5's but the shimmer and the crispness of the light given off by halides just looks too much better to me. I do use 2 T5's on Icecap ballast for supplemental lighting. I could never go back to T5 alone.

[ch0daboy]

i have a lot of aggitation on the top of my tank as well I don't believe you can get t5's soly to shimmer using this method. People have made fixtures that use LEDS to suplliment the shimmer i ran into some post about them awhile back. Can't find them now, where are those people now.


I also love the colors and savings t5's have to offer miss the shimmer. Shimmer adds more personality to a tank.

[guido_kp]

there was a thread on this a couple months ago...check it out

here

poor guy got ripped on pretty badly. i wonder if it started growing lots of algae?

[tbone28]

Originally posted by DarG
Well, I supplement my two T5's with 2 X 250 watt halides ...

Sorry, I couldnt help it. I was just in one of those type of moods that I fully realize nobody else here, aside from myself, will appreciate.

I did use two incandescent spotlights to add shimmer to NO Flourescent lighting many many moons ago.

LOL good one

[tbone28]

Originally posted by guido_kp
there was a thread on this a couple months ago...check it out

here

poor guy got ripped on pretty badly. i wonder if it started growing lots of algae?

Thanks for the link. Interesting idea, but I won't be doing that. Adding 150w worth of light just to get a shimmer would defeat the purpose of switching from halides to T5's - to save electricity. I'd also be concerned about algae growth.

I bought one of those under-the-kitchen-cabinet, halogens today from Home Depot. This one was not a true halogen; rather it had 12 LED's in it. It didn't add any shimmer.

It seems like the only way to get a shimmer effect from LED's is to add A LOT of them, which isn't practical.

[hahnmeister]

Not so much ALOT of them, but high power ones (not the 3 and 5mm type), and cluster them together into 'spotlights'... if you spread them out, they wont be acting like a point source much anymore... unless you do like SEAQUALUX and have a computer that 'flickers' the LED's to create the shimmer.

[iantoh]

hi there barjam,

i shall be visiting the electrical shop that configured my LEDs for me and shall ask them the make of my diodes ya.

as for the cost of them, i think you could fix up an array for half the price, but the heat is a big issue. i had one made previously for about US$80 and it only consisted of 7 LEDs, each fitted with an individual reflector and it gave superb shimmer lines, but due to the way the reflector envelopes the diode, without active fan or peltier cooling, the LED would damage itself if its fired at optimum output for more than 20 minutes. i damaged mine, which is why i had to figure out another LED solution to try and achieve the shimmer lines i wanted.

the price though, is exorbitant. if my tank wasnt in my room, i would think halides would be way simpler.

cheers,
ian

ps: i'm planning to buy a DSLR camera next weekend, and shall post some pics if possible then.

[barjam]

iantoh

That sounds like lumanids or something very similar, are they mounted to a little round PCB? I wonder if you could use an aluminum heat sync like you might find at Radio Shack (Electronics parts store here in the States) and attach it to the back using CPU grease?

As fast as LED technology is going I suspect there will be a reasonably priced option for fluorescent shimmer in the next year or two.

[tbone28]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
Not so much ALOT of them, but high power ones (not the 3 and 5mm type), and cluster them together into 'spotlights'... if you spread them out, they wont be acting like a point source much anymore... unless you do like SEAQUALUX and have a computer that 'flickers' the LED's to create the shimmer.

What is considered to be a "high powered" LED?

[hahnmeister]

luxeon rebels, cree X-series, etc. ones that tend to run about a watt each at a minimum.

[chujai]

I was searching on powerful LED lights and i ran into this

http://www.luxeonstar.com/sub_catego...&link_str=1429
its basically LEDs placed into a case that fits a regular t8 tube florescent light.

seems like a pretty cool bulb and may work to get that shimmer effect

anyone else seen these?

[iantoh]

hi there barjam,

im sorry but i havent found out the brand of LEDs i'm using yet, though i have some pics, and a video of them in action:

pics:
they're mounted on a strip of heat sink material, utilising some sort of heat sink glue.


Mounted in between my four tubes of 39w T5s.



video (pls note that the video was taken with my 4 x 39w T5s turned off as my casio exilim wasnt able to capture the glitter lines as clearly when the T5s were on, though the effect is about the same as in the low-res video) :

[tbone28]

Iantoh - thanks for the video. The shimmer is nice. However, it's hard to make a conclusion if your T5's are off. Would it be possible to post a video with your T5's on?

I think we all know that LED's will give shimmer when the T5's are off. What we are searching for are LED's which won't be washed out when the T5's are on.

Here's my personal concern. You have 4x39w T5's. I have 16x39w T5's. I wonder how many LED's I'd need to cluster in order to obtain a shimmer. I'm looking into Hahn's LED suggestions right now.

[barjam]

He was saying his camera wasn't able to capture it but to his eye the shimmer with the T5s on look similar to his video.

It is my gut feeling that the more T5 bulbs you have the less shimmer you will be able to get. I can get a pretty respectable shimmer out of just my 4x54 if I churn the surface of the water enough.

[reefkeeperfrodo]

My .02

We use the powerbrite fixtures at work, and it gives a shimmer to a 4x39 watt tek fixture.

Everyones saying that leds cant do it, but it sounds like no one tried the powerbrite. I'm not going to say hallides are on the way out, I'm even considering them for my 180 im about to set up, but they are rapidly approaching obsoleteness. LEDs can create shimmer, if done properly, T5s run cooler, put out more lumens per watt, and have a longer bulb life than hallides. But, all things considered and no matter how you look at it, lighting a 180 is gonna be a BLAST!!!!!!

[barjam]

Actually MH are more efficient than T5 in terms of raw output per watt (at least in the daylight spectrum). However one could argue that T5's delivery mechanism might be more efficient, I don't know.

[iantoh]

hi there tbone28, barjam and reefkeeperfrodo,

as barjam rightly mentioned, the video portrays the glitter lines as they appear to my eyes when my T5s are on. i tried to shoot the video with the T5s on, but when i viewed the video, they were almost inperceptible; even in the above video -where my T5s were turned off- the glitter lines still appear less obvious than in real life.

prior to using the above "three in a cluster" LEDs, i used the Luxeon Star ones as theyre reputedly the brightest, and probably so.

pics:




they produced even better shimmer lines than my present fixture, but as i didnt know better then (which was a mere 2 weeks ago), i inadvertently allowed them to overheat and melt themselves. the second picture above shows the separate components to the reflectors i was recommended for the luxeon stars (there are several sizes of which these are the smallest reflectors). the reflectors focus the light very well, but also trap heat, and as i didnt employ any active fan cooling on the fixture, the LEDs sorta melted down after a full day on.

and the thing is, the shop that configured the luxeons for me, a DIY shop, told me theyd be fine turned on 24 hours for years on end without cooling. what lies. that was US$70 wasted. so anyhows, dont mean to really recommend LEDs for the purpose of creating shimmer lines. i just thought to contribute the results of my experiments, as they've cost quite alot, and theyre steps others can take to avoid the mistakes i made and thus save cost.

i really do think youre right in saying that youd need a hell lot of LEDs to "outsparkle" 16 x 39w T5s. tbone, have you considered halogen bulbs? theyre way cheaper and for such a large tank, i doubt there'd be much of an impact from the heat produced by 4 to 6 small halogen bulbs. and they give you great sparkle lines for sure.

cheers,
ian

[tbone28]

Iantoh - I didn't read your thread closely enough. I missed the part where you mentioned that the shimmer looked the same as when your T5's where on.

It's good to know that the LED's need active cooling. I've always thought that LED's run cool since they're such low wattage.

I did try one of those spotlight halogens. It had a 35w bulb on it, and I got nothing. I'm hesitant to use higher-wattage halogens because my main reason for switching from halides to T5's was for the energy savings.

Reefkeeperfrodo: How many powerbrites did you used for your tank? When I emailed Current about the powerbrite, they recommended 1 Powerbrite for every 40w of T5's. I cannot hang 16 Powerbrites!

[tbone28]

Originally posted by barjam

It is my gut feeling that the more T5 bulbs you have the less shimmer you will be able to get. I can get a pretty respectable shimmer out of just my 4x54 if I churn the surface of the water enough.

I'd agree because when all my lights are off, my Tunze 7095 controller's SINGLE moonlight gives a very nice shimmer.

[reefkeeperfrodo]

We use one powerbrite w/white LEDs, held over the water, at the same level as the fixture, and.......Shimmer happens. I dont care what current "recommends". Just because they recommend one per 40 watts, doesnt mean one per 160w wont work. Im not saying only use one, my boss put two over his 110h, and he gets shimmer, using 4x54w HOT5s. Take into consideration tank length, depth, and width, not to mention number of bulbs. Get one and try it first, then tell me it wont work.

[tbone28]

Originally posted by reefkeeperfrodo
We use one powerbrite w/white LEDs, held over the water, at the same level as the fixture, and.......Shimmer happens. I dont care what current "recommends". Just because they recommend one per 40 watts, doesnt mean one per 160w wont work. Im not saying only use one, my boss put two over his 110h, and he gets shimmer, using 4x54w HOT5s. Take into consideration tank length, depth, and width, not to mention number of bulbs. Get one and try it first, then tell me it wont work.

Did I hit a nerve or something? sheesh, why so mad? I never said the powerbrites won't work. All i did was ask how many you used so I could compare what you use versus what Current recommends. Isn't that the point of a discussion forum? To discuss and learn. On that note, it's good to know that one fixture for your 160w gives shimmer.

[ch0daboy]

Originally posted by iantoh
hi there tbone28, barjam and reefkeeperfrodo,

as barjam rightly mentioned, the video portrays the glitter lines as they appear to my eyes when my T5s are on. i tried to shoot the video with the T5s on, but when i viewed the video, they were almost inperceptible; even in the above video -where my T5s were turned off- the glitter lines still appear less obvious than in real life.

prior to using the above "three in a cluster" LEDs, i used the Luxeon Star ones as theyre reputedly the brightest, and probably so.

pics:




they produced even better shimmer lines than my present fixture, but as i didnt know better then (which was a mere 2 weeks ago), i inadvertently allowed them to overheat and melt themselves. the second picture above shows the separate components to the reflectors i was recommended for the luxeon stars (there are several sizes of which these are the smallest reflectors). the reflectors focus the light very well, but also trap heat, and as i didnt employ any active fan cooling on the fixture, the LEDs sorta melted down after a full day on.

and the thing is, the shop that configured the luxeons for me, a DIY shop, told me theyd be fine turned on 24 hours for years on end without cooling. what lies. that was US$70 wasted. so anyhows, dont mean to really recommend LEDs for the purpose of creating shimmer lines. i just thought to contribute the results of my experiments, as they've cost quite alot, and theyre steps others can take to avoid the mistakes i made and thus save cost.

i really do think youre right in saying that youd need a hell lot of LEDs to "outsparkle" 16 x 39w T5s. tbone, have you considered halogen bulbs? theyre way cheaper and for such a large tank, i doubt there'd be much of an impact from the heat produced by 4 to 6 small halogen bulbs. and they give you great sparkle lines for sure.

cheers,
ian

screw the tank... I'm wearing it as a belt.

[tbone28]

Has anyone tried this?

http://www.ledlight.com/detail.aspx?ID=145

It looks like a basic screw-in bulb with 108 LED's inside. It says it's equivalent to an 80w incandescent.

[Newlin]

I like the idea of the halo's on a 12v system. That would be bright enough to overtake the t5's. I think I'm on my way to HD or Lowes