AWT results

[DrBegalke]

thales: probably from the water change?


billybeau: Ohio State's defense is awesome, except against a spread offense ran by a mobile QB who just so happens to be having a career day.. i.e. Illini, i.e. Florida... Someday we'll learn how to defend it.

[Thales]

I would agree about the water change except the same batch of water was used for the water change before the first test and for the water change before the second test.

[ReefJerk]

Originally posted by Thales
Hey guys, what do you think about this.

First awt results Silica .3 (good)
Second awt results Silica 2.7 (high)

Is that much of a jump really possible? A water change was done from the same 150 gallon mixing tank the day before each sample was sent, and the only other things added were a teaspoon and a half of borax, some K, Mag and Dow after the first test.

RR

Doesn't seem viable that adding all that could give you a substantila increase in Silica? Do you know the chcemical makeup(as far as Silica goes, at least) of the Borax, Potassium, Mag, and Dowflake?

[ReefJerk]

Originally posted by DrBegalke
Thought you might be interested in this....

I sent in a sample of Petco "real ocean water".... Heated and circulated for 24h, I tested pH at 8.3 and sg of 1.026 by refractometer...

I am very intesrested in what your comments are about the readings from this water. Can you please post some feedback? Thanks.

Also, I am not a customer of AWT. I have been thinking about it and want to get all the info I can. So, if it seems I am being a little skeptical about some of your comments, please know that I absolutely am Just wanted to be clear.

Cliff

[Boomer]

No, that jump is not possible unless you are dosing silica. 2.7 IS NOT high for NSW, which is around ~ 3.00 ppm but we should try to keep it around 1 ppm or less to lower the chance of Diatom blooms in reef tanks.

[DrBegalke]

Originally posted by ReefJerk
I am very intesrested in what your comments are about the readings from this water. Can you please post some feedback? Thanks.

Also, I am not a customer of AWT. I have been thinking about it and want to get all the info I can. So, if it seems I am being a little skeptical about some of your comments, please know that I absolutely am Just wanted to be clear.

Cliff

Cliff:
I posted a new thread about that water, including feedback.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1255993

[DrBegalke]

Originally posted by Boomer
No, that jump is not possible unless you are dosing silica. 2.7 IS NOT high for NSW, which is around ~ 3.00 ppm but we should try to keep it around 1 ppm or less to lower the chance of Diatom blooms in reef tanks.

Hey Boomer.
Any idea why the Petco NSW (which I think comes from Catalina Water) would test at 0.0 for SiO2?

[Thales]

Originally posted by ReefJerk
Doesn't seem viable that adding all that could give you a substantila increase in Silica? Do you know the chcemical makeup(as far as Silica goes, at least) of the Borax, Potassium, Mag, and Dowflake?

Thats my question!

[ReeferAl]

Originally posted by Boomer
It looks like the test value you guys for PO4 is off and they are working on it. Meaning, your PO4 is lower than what they state for your water.

Interesting. I have a Hach portable spectrophotometer (the mid-range model, I think it's model 850). I checked the unit against Hach's phosphate standard solution shortly after I got it. I found the MDL for my technique to be about 0.02 as it was able to detect that concentration in 3 out of 3 tests. The measurements ranged from 0.01 to 0.03 on those samples.

I drew a water sample and sent part to AWT and the other I tested with my kits and spectrophotometer. I measured my PO4 at 0.12, (it usually runs high at .03 to .07), but then their results came back as 0.01. If their test result is right then my meter is now off by a factor of 10 while I previously found it to be accurate to +/- 0.01 (a factor of 1.5) at the low end of its range. Unless my meter has drifted (I plan to recheck the calibration) their results are way off.

Allen

[DrBegalke]

hey allen:

nice to see another physician on here... let us know what you find out...

[Boomer]

No clue DR off hand why it was zero.

What one needs to do is get 2 sets of two guys sending them in 4 samples and each pair of guys sending in the same exact sample from the same tank and the samples taken at the same time. I have a funny idea they will not match One issue is who is doing the testing and if it is more than one person do all follow the same procedures and are they real lab tech trained to do this, not some shop/store monkey running tests.

Allen

There is no error correction needed for seawater for PO4 in Spectro's. If that HACH is calibrated right it is no off other than it normal claimed off-set of +/ - ?? And you are not the only one Allen that has seen this AWT PO4 test way off.

[Thales]

Originally posted by Boomer
No, that jump is not possible unless you are dosing silica. 2.7 IS NOT high for NSW, which is around ~ 3.00 ppm but we should try to keep it around 1 ppm or less to lower the chance of Diatom blooms in reef tanks.

Thanks Boomer. Thats what I figured. My third test will go off on Monday and we'll see what that one says.

[Thales]

Originally posted by Boomer
No, that jump is not possible unless you are dosing silica. 2.7 IS NOT high for NSW, which is around ~ 3.00 ppm but we should try to keep it around 1 ppm or less to lower the chance of Diatom blooms in reef tanks.

Thanks Boomer. Thats what I figured. My third test will go off on Monday and we'll see what that one says.

[reefkoi]

Conflict of interest cause they sell aquamedic salt? thats the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. C'mon now, and earlier in the post I read something about the Phos reading being off, I tested my phos on a hanna photometer at the same time I sent in my sample to AWT and it was the identical reading, I was kind of surprised my meter was that accurate.
I think everybody is just shocked that their "pristine" water could come back with numbers different than what they think they have.
Afterall isn't that why we all send in our sample to AWT? Or is it so we can stroke our ego some more by publishing perfect results here on RC for our esteemed peers to drool over?
Chris

[melev]

Originally posted by reefkoi
Conflict of interest cause they sell aquamedic salt? thats the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. C'mon now, and earlier in the post I read something about the Phos reading being off, I tested my phos on a hanna photometer at the same time I sent in my sample to AWT and it was the identical reading, I was kind of surprised my meter was that accurate.
I think everybody is just shocked that their "pristine" water could come back with numbers different than what they think they have.
Afterall isn't that why we all send in our sample to AWT? Or is it so we can stroke our ego some more by publishing perfect results here on RC for our esteemed peers to drool over?
Chris

No, it really is about finding out who's got it right. If AWT does, then that's a good thing. If we are more accurate, why point people their way?

It would actually be really nice if we could get someone out there to do this exact thing accurately. I nominate Boomer.

[reefkoi]

You know I live around 2 hours away from them what if I took a trip up there with another club member and we interviewed them and took pictures of the equipment?
I'll look into contacting them and seeing if they would allow it to maybe help save them.
C

[Boomer]

Melev

It would actually be really nice if we could get someone out there to do this exact thing accurately. I nominate Boomer.





Someone Mark, as we speak, is trying to get me to do that and the answer was no I'm retired from all work and want to stay that way

reefkoi

I would love to see you do that. Get yourself a copy of the latest issue of FAMA. They have an ad in there that makes it look that they have a lab research facility set-up or like one you see in a hospital and it is all white and looks to be 50 ' long

Conflict of interest cause they sell aquamedic salt? thats the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.

Then you are not a very bright person and are rather stupid yourself. Then why are they hiding themselves ? Why don't they just say they are a division of Aqua-Medic ? Ask yourself the question why are they not hear to help with these questions. I have personally invited them here. I have personally invited other equipment labs in years past and they all showed up. What is their excuse ? We are not good enough to talk to.

Afterall isn't that why we all send in our sample to AWT?

Yes, as WE thought it was a real water testing facility that started a second facility to do just aquarium water. If it was a real lab they would be using things like FIA or ICP and not ISE probes and Spectro's.

Or is it so we can stroke our ego some more by publishing perfect results here on RC for our esteemed peers to drool over?

You are the only one drooling over yourself....sorry. You are saying we should not question them, their procedures or results. Here is a recent quote I can apply to that

thats the stupidest thing I've heard in a while

, I was kind of surprised my meter was that accurate.

Why, I'm not they are using a spectro just like you, which are not affected by salt. Even with that said, AWT themselves, think they are having PO4 testing issues. YOY are not the only one with a Hanna or some other spectro and they are not getting the same results. Have you actually read any of these AWT threads, here or on other forums or just making comments form nowhere to hear yourself talk ?

You seemed to have missed my or our whole point. I/ We love this idea. I/we thought it was great thing but it is not turning out that way. I'm/we are hoping they can straighten things out, despite being part of Aqau-Medica.

[ReeferAl]

Originally posted by reefkoi
I think everybody is just shocked that their "pristine" water could come back with numbers different than what they think they have.

If you read my post correctly you'll see that THEIR PO4 test results showed a LOWER level than mine. It would be easy to use their results and say I have no PO4 problem, but my results say differently.

I KNOW my results are correct because I have tested my instrument and technique against saltwater to which PO4 was added to bring it to a known concentration. The meter repeatedly measured it correctly, within the accuracy of the colorimeter. Because of this I KNOW their results are off.

Others have apparently gotten results that show their PO4 being higher than they were measuring themselves. It may well be that their technique is not systematically off (that is, always higher or always lower), but rather it may be that their results are inconsistent and not reproducible.

Of the parameters I could measure the other results were relatively close, but PO4 was definitely off.

Allen

[Thales]

Just a little info:
I volunteer at the Steinhart aquarium and tested my PO4 with a DR5000 with the same sample water that was sent to AWT. The first time the DR came up with .13, AWT .27. The second time they both came up with .07.

I am pretty bummed that their testing appears to be randomish, however, being partially color blind, they still may be a better testing service for me than doing it myself.

[Boomer]

Just a note; the vast majority of bad test results are from operator/user error, no matter who the operator/user is, unless they are well experienced This is why years ago, Habib from Salifert, sent out free test kits. All came with their own test samples. Some testers knew what the test samples where suppose to be and some where not told. The reasoning was to find what the operator error was. All testers should have come out with same resuts and some did and some did not. On known samples they just palyed with things like light, background colors and more exact sample volume until they go it right.

[DrBegalke]

I used to have my water tested at my LFS where they used Salifert test kits as I back up to my own testing, or when I didn't have time to do all of the tests myself...

Where I live now there aren't any LFS's who even test saltwater, let alone with Salifert kits, so I'm using AWT as substitute for that.

[reefkoi]

Originally posted by ReeferAl
If you read my post correctly you'll see that THEIR PO4 test results showed a LOWER level than mine. It would be easy to use their results and say I have no PO4 problem, but my results say differently.

I KNOW my results are correct because I have tested my instrument and technique against saltwater to which PO4 was added to bring it to a known concentration. The meter repeatedly measured it correctly, within the accuracy of the colorimeter. Because of this I KNOW their results are off.

Others have apparently gotten results that show their PO4 being higher than they were measuring themselves. It may well be that their technique is not systematically off (that is, always higher or always lower), but rather it may be that their results are inconsistent and not reproducible.

Of the parameters I could measure the other results were relatively close, but PO4 was definitely off.

Allen

MY P04 tested exactly the same as theirs, who knows why yours came back different.

[reefkoi]

ok Boomer you win, I won't play in your forum anymore
I am very happy with my results, it seems to be accurate enough for a reef tank that's for sure LOL
I won't waste my time heading up to The Aqua Medic Distributor to try and help get you answers, I don't need them I was only trying to help you guys out.

Why call me stupid and not bright? I am very bright, and am sure my 600 gallon reef blows away your tank................oh wait your signature says you don't even have a tank LOL amazing simply amazing.

Chris

[Boomer]

Why call me stupid and not bright?

You are the one that started calling my posts stupid. What is good enough for the Goose is good enough for the Gander

oh wait your signature says you don't even have a tank LOL amazing simply amazing.

That's correct but have kept tanks 35 years and have kept some of the same animal alive for 15 years and I don't mean just fish have you ? More of your nonsense. So I don't have a tank any longer means I don't or should not post any advice ? I have forgotten more than you will ever know By the way there bright guy, what do tanks have to do with testing water ? And you having a 600 gal or 10 gal nano has no bearing what so ever on this thread. Having a tank does not mean you AUTOMATICALLY understand water chemistry. You don't buy it at a LFS ........sorry.

The Aqua Medic Distributor to try and help get you answers, I don't need them I was only trying to help you guys out.

I don't think we need it from you, as you are already closed minded and accept results from AWT hands-down as they must be right. That is often called pure ignorance. So far nobody agrees with you


Your last post and remarks shows your silliness and childish nature. I'm now playing your game.

ok Boomer you win

It has nothing to do with winning but understanding the subject matter at hand.

[reef_doug]

So lets mix up some Aqua Medic salt with 0 TDS and using a Spectrapure Silica Buster DI cartridge and send it to them anonymously for testing. I'll put money on it that it will come back with a high Silica reading.

IMO... I don't think it's a conflict of interest because they have no way of knowing which salt they are testing.

For me the $22 (incl shpg) is well worth it for the service. It would be nice if they did provide an onsite tour though. On my second test they sent the results around 1:00am though... makes you wonder.