Refugium tips (formerly "flow rate thorugh a refugium") - Page 8

dfwatson · #**176** 12/14/2005, 06:10 PM

Thanks for the reply. Maybe I will just go about it in a different way. Maybe 1/2 the flow thru the sump to a split return in the main tank and a closed loop to provide a much larger flow thru the closed manifold. Right track???

Daryl

Glimmerman911 · #**177** 12/14/2005, 06:13 PM

Could you list the size and location of all the holes in your tank?

dfwatson · #**178** 12/14/2005, 06:20 PM

(4) 1.5 inch bulkheads across the back. (undetermined location/height) Still in the process of odering tank drilling specs.

Glimmerman911 · #**179** 12/14/2005, 06:29 PM

Perfect time to plan waterflow then, good stuff.

What style, number, and locations of overflows are you going to use? Are you going to drill the bottom of the tank for the overflows?

Two corner overflows, each with 2x1.5" bulheads would be nice, use one in each overflow for drain, 1 for return. To add in redundancy I would only have the pump matched to a single 1.5" drain though, so if one fails, the other can take up slack.

Then use probably 3 1.5" bulheads for the closed loop, 1 to pull water from the center of the tank, and 2 spread out to distribute the watet back in, preferably pointing somewhat towards each other to get some turbulent flow. You could t-off the returns with 3/4" or 1/2" loc line to distribute the flow around the tank more too.

dfwatson · #**180** 12/14/2005, 06:39 PM

I was thinking more along the line of the (4) 1.5 bulkheads on the back wall with strainers, not in the bottom. I guess I don't see the advantage of overflow boxes compared straight bulkheads.
Daryl

dfwatson · #**181** 12/14/2005, 06:46 PM

Also the return from the sump would be over the top and I would still have (2) drains to the sump.
Daryl

Glimmerman911 · #**182** 12/14/2005, 08:15 PM

I wouldn't make the return from the sump over the top if you have the chance to get a hole drilled.

Main advantage is the amount of water you can put through a single 1.5" bulkhead vs. a 1.5" bulkhead in an overflow box. The amount of water for the bulkhead will be much more limited. Couple other advantages are that you can do something like a durso standpipe or equivilent to reduce noise of the water falling, you pull off the surface of the water (strainers can too though), and they can be a little safer for things not getting sucked against the strainer and dieing and clogging it up, with an overflow you have a lot more surface area to diffuse the flow, but that is only important if you are pushing a lot of flow, which you won't be if you are using a closed loop in conjunction with the strainers.

There might be other advantages that I do not know about.

Glimmerman911 · #**183** 12/14/2005, 08:16 PM

Disadvantage is of course the space it takes up in your tank.

dfwatson · #**184** 12/14/2005, 08:25 PM

Didn't know you would get more flow from an overflow box, guess I will have to rethink where I get the tank drilled. Thanks for the help.

Daryl

guntercb · #**185** 12/15/2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

I much rather prefer a suspended matrix like the Chaeto ball or spaced polyester filter pads (on a string to act as a pod condo).

If I place a polyester filter pad in my sump to try to act as a pod condo do I need to provide lights in my sump? Or can I have healthy pods that live their whole life in the dark?

Thanks,
Chris

Glimmerman911 · #**186** 12/15/2005, 11:10 AM

dfwatson, you probably don't need that much flow through your overflow though, if you are going to use a closed loop for water flow.

Get a barracuda or hammerhead pump for the closed loop, then just use a mag7 or similar for the sump return. You don't need that much flow through your sump, just enough to heat the water, and feed the skimmer. Keeping the flow through the sump slower will help keep microbubbles down, and it sucks having to redo your system because of microbubble problems.

dfwatson · #**187** 12/15/2005, 11:36 AM

I do want enough flow thru the sump/refugium to tumble my cheato without putting another pump in the sump.(just flow from drains) After reading many posts I believe I can tie in the sump return pump with the closed loop pump to both run the single closed manifold.(saw that Steven Pro did it) Now just need good hole placement and correct pump sizes.

Daryl

Glimmerman911 · #**188** 12/15/2005, 11:45 AM

Im not sure what you mean by closed manifold, or what benefit you think you get by doing it that way.

Are you doing a manifold along the top of the tank, or are you doing a closed loop with bulheads along the back of your tank?

dfwatson · #**189** 12/15/2005, 12:15 PM

I am planning a closed loop manifold to go around the top perimeter of the tank for my sole circulation/flow for the whole main tank. I want to power the manifold by using the sump return pump and the closed loop (not to be confused with the closed loop manifold) pump. The benefit that I see is with the manifold I can direct flow to many different areas of the tank and have no poweheads or other plumbing inside the main tank.

Daryl

Glimmerman911 · #**190** 12/15/2005, 01:32 PM

Gotcha. I would hook the sump return into the manifold with a Y fitting then, not a T, if you really want to hook it in. I don't see any benefit to hooking it in vs. putting the sump return into a bulhead you have drilled in the back of the tank, but whatever you like.

It is important to match the size and number of nozzles to you total flow in the manifold. For a 180g for example, if you want 15x, so 2700gph. Run a 1" manifold, with reducing t's. 1/2" would work well with 400gph through each nozzle, so you would want 7 nozzles. I would use loc line, then you can glue the rest of the manifold to stop air leaks and microbubbles, the loc line will give you all the flexability you need.

By the way, I have a sequence barracuda hooked up with 7 1/2" nozzles on a 1" manifold over a 180g, all nozzles get equal flow, works great.

dfwatson · #**191** 12/15/2005, 01:45 PM

I want to combine the two pump flows and their pressure into the manifold for the combine flow effect of both pumps. That way I can have many nozzles coming out of the manifold, running some or cap some as needed for flow in different areas of the tank.

Daryl

Glimmerman911 · #**192** 12/15/2005, 03:32 PM

You will lose more flow piping the sump return pump into the manifold compared to running it right into a bulkhead. There would be fewer bends, and less head height.

I would get the tank drilled low in the back, and use the sump return to put flow behind your rock where the manifold would have trouble reaching, that is my only complaint about the manifold system is that it is tough to get flow behind the rockwork unless you drop the outlet to the bottom of the tank behind the rocks, which puts too much PVC visible IMO.

dfwatson · #**193** 12/15/2005, 03:34 PM

Good to know, Thanks for you input.

Daryl

Glimmerman911 · #**194** 12/15/2005, 03:35 PM

No worries, post some pics when you decide on your setup.

prezioso73 · #**195** 12/21/2005, 09:20 AM

Does it make any sense to have a DSB in my fuge, if little light hits the bottom of the tank? THe Chaeto blocks about 80% of the light?

guntercb · #**196** 12/21/2005, 10:01 AM

Prezioso,

I am curoius how people answer your question. I am not expert, but I would guess that a deep sand bed would provide you an anoxic area for denitrification and therefore would be good even without light. Not to mention cops and stuff may thrive there. I guess it depends on what you want your refug to accomplish.

Everyone, If I hang poly pads in my sump for a pod condo would the pods need lights to thrive or can I keep them in the dark?

Thanks,
Chris

Glimmerman911 · #**197** 12/21/2005, 10:35 AM

Prezioso, guntercb is right, it depends on the purpose of your fuge.

A DSB, even with only 20% light will provide an anaerobic zone for denitrification, and if you can get a couple cups of sand from a well established tank, you will soon have all kinds of pods, worms, etc. in there.

So yes, it can make very good sense to have a DSB in a fuge.

prezioso73 · #**198** 12/21/2005, 10:55 AM

I just read the thread about the Remote Deep Sand Bed...wow!

I think I am going to go with that and keep the space under my chaeto clear so it is easy to remove detris.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...&pagenumber=10

hondadude2k5 · #**199** 12/21/2005, 11:52 AM

I converted my AquaClear110 into a refugium and it seems to be working great but my chaeto doesn't look like it is doing so well. Alot of it looks like it is loosing color and withering away. I have a clip on 18w mini compact light over the refugium and my MT lights are 1x65w PCs. Am I doing something wrong? Should my lights be on all the time over the fugium or should it be alternate of my MT? Any tips would be great Thanks.

pmcustom · #**200** 01/23/2006, 06:38 AM

I am designing a new sump that will hold about 30gal. Everyone's saying to have high flow to tumble the chaeto, but I have a Mandarin and would like to help out the pod population as much as poossible. Would it be ideal to have 2 seperate compartments, one with high flow for the chaeto and the other with adjustable flow for the refugium (maybe LR rubble and a SSB) for the pods? Thanks.