Angels keep dying...Help!!

[oneup]

I have a 210 fish only with a yellow tang, two puple tangs, a sohal tang, lunare wrasse, emperator angel, two maroon clownfish. I tried a regal angel and it ate great and then just diminished over a weekend and then died. I did the same thing with a Queen angel just this week that had the same results: eating great and then all of a suden dead. Fish are all from same reputable source and all my readings/levels are perfect. Any suggestions guys? I figure if my sohal and emperator are just fine, then why are my Angels dying?

[DragonMorayEels]

Your only a 210 and much your doing is all wrong for two purple tangs as well how many angels as one time? For angel should have a well aged tank with high quailty conditions for a 210 a larger angel spieces is not a good idea, but that`s me.

How long has your tank been seup and cycled? What are your water Parameters?

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Hmmmm, I think your tank is full as it is....
Regals are not the hardiest of Angels, depends on location they are collected....as for the Queen, maybe you just got a bad one....Maybe, your Sohal [which, in time, will become a holy terror] or your other Angels, Purple Tang were Harassing them [that's a rough crowd] Hard to tell but I really wouldn't add any more large fish to your tank

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Oh and




[welcome]

[DragonMorayEels]

BTTRFLYGRL, indeed the tank is over crouded and where you get the welcome from? I not see it in the list of smiles and all

[Billybeau1]

If I had a 210 gal, I wouldnt have a problem adding a queen to that tank, but thats just me.

How are you acclimating the fish ?

You say your water is fine. What exactly are you testing for and post your results.

Also what are you feeding, how much and how often?

[PuffersKick]

I gave up on large angels myself. They are way to0 picky about water conditions. You have to have an established tank and keep in PRISTINE clean. I mean even a little off can get it sick. They are very prone to parasites, and need a specific diet to stay healthy.

Too much work for me... too many other fish that are easier and more fun!

[PuffersKick]

Oh, and a 210 gallon tank without a Dogface puffer of some sort is a CRIME. Forget the angels and get a puffer. I promise it will become your favorite fish! They have the best personality of all fish!

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Originally posted by DragonMorayEels
BTTRFLYGRL, indeed the tank is over crouded and where you get the welcome from? I not see it in the list of smiles and all

[ w e l c o m e ] Type this only without the spaces

[oneup]

thnx guys/gals. I have a great high powered UV Sterilizer with a great -more than capable skimmer. Not that it matters but it's all solid equipment. The tank has cycled and been up and running 5 months now. I know, I know it's still too new but why would my sohal and emperator live and be great with the other two angels die? The regals are so very fragile, so i didn't sweat that too much. The queen though? It looked perfect...no blemishes and was eating. I'm feeding a combination of brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, emerald green veggie thing, and seaweed. I'll have to report on the parameters later when I have time. How should I be acclimating them? Are there parasites that only attack angels?

[oneup]

Also, there's more than enough room from all I've asked for what I have: 2 puple tangs, sohal tang, yellow tang, lunare wrasse, two large maroon clownfish, emperator angel--plus a blue face angel, queen angel, and a crosshatch trigger/or puffer. Opinions guys? Everyone I've spoken to has said this is okay. Why do you disagree and feel my tank is overstocked? Thnx guys....

[Billybeau1]

Many people here on RC err on the side of caution when it comes to stocking. They base this mostly on how big the fish will get in the future. You just must be prepared to give/trade/sell a fish when it gets too big for your tank. Some dont want to do this so they just stock to a level that wont outgrow. That Sohal itself will eventually get huge.

I've kept my tank at the high end for a long time. When I start seeing aggression or skidishness from otherwise a peaceful fish, he is telling me its time to go. I personally have no problem enjoying a fish for 3 or 4 years then trading him to someone with a bigger tank.

Also a lot of folks have a lot of live rock in their tank which takes up swimming space. I dont, so my 72 can hold more fish than say a 72 with 100 lbs of live rock in it.

Queens are very tempermental. Yours could have been sick when you got it.

When I say acclimate, I mean you cant just throw the fish in your tank from the store. You must slowly acclimate him to the new water. Over a period of an hour or two. Everyone has different ways. I personally put the bag in the tank and add a shot glass full of my water in about every 10 minutes for an hour or so. By then the temperature and the ph are pretty much the same so there is no shock.

[DragonMorayEels]

Also a lot of folks have a lot of live rock in their tank which takes up swimming space

That is like myself as being one those people that my eel only tanks are loaded with lots of LR.

Things like that only depends much on what type of tank one is doing for as mentioned, these twin eel tanks as I came to call them aren`t the same size that in one tank is a pair of goldentals and the larger tank has a pair of DME.

But as to the tpoic here, I myself follow a rule that angelfishes should be allowed larger fish space as well depending much on the species that the tank should be well aged and one the angels main diet is sponge.

I always like to think that others would do as I would that in a special fish that one wants that I would do everything I can to get it`s necessary required needed diet.

Buddy

[mm949]

if u are buying fish from your LFS you should acclimate for salinity...most shops run much lower salt levels than many hobbists....u should check it before putting the fish in your tank

i tell all my customers to do 50% water changes every 5 mins for 20-30mins....test salt..if same as tank they are good to go...

[buldog]

My tank (fish dying) didn't really settle down until 2 years. I have a wet/dry, 40 watt uv in my 200 gallon. I have some triggers that are 8 years old, emperor that is 5 years, blue tang 8 years, naso, yellows are 5 years. I think the longer the tank is set up, the less problems you will have. Feeding sounds fine. I kept that tank with 15 fish in it for 7 years with no skimmer and it was fine. I do weekly 20% water changes without fail. I didn't even use ro water until recently.

[XtrmCHoPZ]

Im betting something happened with either the purples, the sohal or the emperor...or all three. Those fish are notorious for being aggressive towards newly added fish.

I have a blueface and an annularis, both about 7". They are both pigs, somewhat aggressive and I think theyre pretty hardy. Theyve made it through quite a few tanks, many battles with ich and so on. THey RARELY ever get ich or othert parasites when the others do. Maybe im just lucky.

[DragonMorayEels]

XtrmCHoPZ, It is as you pointed out that aggression is the main factor here that in the mixing of a larger angel to what if it be a F/O tank or reef tank the larger the tank with this mixer could prove to be more helpful in keeping aggression down to a minimum, but of course no one can guarantee that even in a 240 or larger that aggression could or can be controlled.

For even if im to manage to get a pair of clarions that I had decided to leave out the purple tang for I would lone to have in it the Achilles tang and that the same precautions apply to it as well.

You a blueface and bluering in how large a tank? I find that the bluering is more aggressive>

THey RARELY ever get ich or othert parasites when the others do. Maybe im just lucky.

Being lucky in this hobby will only get someone so far for I have to say at most you some idea in what your doing so we will scratch that your lucky and besides, how long you both angels together?

Buddy

[oneup]

You guys are great...thnx for the advice/replies. The LR is a good point...I've got 200 pounds (no wet dry so all LR for filter) in it with caves and private areas for fish to hide, so that diminishes my space. It's probobly just too soon to be trying to get all those large angels in there. Patience is the key I keep reminding myself! I just want to get a large blue face angel, another queen angel, a crosshatch trigger, and perhaps a dog face puffer (I aggree it would be a shame without one!) eventually. That's my species list and then I'm done. You're right...I need to just watch the fish interact and let them tell me what works and when too much is too much. Maintenence...I keep everything prestine and do 20 gal water changes every week and a half. All parameters are stable and great. About the species...do you guys feel as though I've screwed myself with too many tangs? What do you think about my species that I still want to add? Is that too much? What about adding a puffer now? Will that screw things up because he'll be an agressor and not leave alone the ones I add later? Are the puffers really hardy? Will he eat my clowns (3.5 inch) or my purple tangs ( somewhat smaller than 3 in)? Thnx.

[buldog]

I have 6 tangs in my 200 and they do fine. Of course they chase each other once in a while.

[XtrmCHoPZ]

My fish are in 125, which will be upgraded to a 240 or 300 in 5 months or so.

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Need a better variety in the fishes diet..and Vitamens!! I alternate Vita-chem and Selcon

read this

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=785228


I have an 8', 240 gallon with
Raccoon Butterfly,
Blueface Angel
Whiteface Tang
Hippo Tang
Iridis Wrasse
2 Argi Angels
2 Ocellaris Clowns

[LRS078]

I'm beginning to think that the source of the fish being as important as anything else....at least when it comes to avoiding indo pacific fish. My girlfriend works in the hobby (and has done so on and off for 15 years, has many friends in hobby, etc) and there is a definite trend towards the fish from those areas dying suddenly when ALL other parameters/basics/home aquarium environments would be considered "fine". It doesn't happen in all specimens but there is a trend that is bigger than simple annomaly towards it. Again, I don't know for sure how they are being collected (poisoned or not) but I can track a specific mortality rate and time frame.

I bought a tiny red sea emperor angel and grew him from about 1.5" to 5" who has been through far less than ideal conditions at one time or another and recovered from HLLE beautifully once any tank issues were sorted. He is hardier than most puffers/lions. I also watched an indo pacific polleni grouper who was the picture of health for 6 months die suddenly with no explainable cause. Lost a russell's lion on a similar 6 month time frame.

See if you can find a specimen from somewhere other than indo pacific and let us know how it goes. I've had great luck with hawaiian, red sea, aussie, and solomon island.

As for acclimation....hopefully you are QT'ing all your fish. As such, when I acclimate I simply make the QT tank to the same salinity as the fish came from. Then as the fish is in QT I slowly (over days) bring salinity up to match the system he is going into. This is THE most fail safe system I've been able to come up with so far.

Give the above a try and let us know how it turns out.