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  #1  
Old 01/08/2008, 06:42 PM
impur impur is offline
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Prodibio lead to cyano??

This is just a question regarding this product.

I have been battling cyano for about 6 months now. I have had the same rock and sand for the past 3+ years. I had cyano when i started my first tank 3+ years ago, but it went away as the tank cycled.

This time it started when i put my CA reactor online, which drove down the pH of the tank to the mid 7s due to excess CO2 in the house coupled with the lower pH from the reactor. At the same time, I started dosing prodibio to try and deal with some red turf algae that was covering much of my rocks and growing quickly. The pH was in the mid 7s for about 2-3 days, i lost some SPS and my zoas all closed up. No effect on fish or LPS/softies.

I remedied that by bringing outside air into my skimmer, removing the CA reactor, and using kalk in my topoff. I dosed the prodibio for a total of 3 doses. Unfortunately, to compound the problem, I was given some incorrect info on dosage and overdosed. My fault there for not researching more.

6 months later and my tank is a cyano bacteria lovers dream. It grows on my pumps, tank walls, inside plumbing, rocks, sand, corals...everwhere. Daily i blast the rocks and corals with the baster. I added mesh bags to my overflows that are cleaned every couple days. I changed all the RO filters. Added phoslock and carbon. I scrub the walls clean every couple days, remove rock and scrub it clean, and syphon the sand once a week during a weekly large WC. I've changed salts, foods, lights, photoperiod, turned lights off for 3 days, changed pumps, increased skimmer performance, added 2 skimmers, raised pH, and tried chemiclean.

Could the bacteria that is in the prodibio product feed differently than the normal bacteria that is present in our tanks? Could it not be feeding on whatever it is that cyano feeds on? I'm trying to get to the bottom of my cyano problem, but just keep hitting dead ends. I have been reading about experiences with prodibio this week, and I notice that its pretty common to hear complaints about cyano with this product.

I'm at such a loss as to why the cyano continues that today this question popped into my head. I might as well see where it leads.

Thanks for your time!
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  #2  
Old 01/08/2008, 06:49 PM
PSam PSam is offline
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If you OD'd or are OD'ing sure it could. I got little blooms when adding too much reefbooster - but nothing that wouldn't disappear in a day or two...

How much are you adding and which of the products?
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  #3  
Old 01/08/2008, 07:06 PM
impur impur is offline
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I only added 3 doses 6 months ago over a 2week period i believe? I added biodigest and bioptim. I cannot remember how much of which i dosed, but i'm pretty sure i overdosed the biodigest. I know i added them in the correct order, but overdosed one of them. I have not added any more prodibio products for over 6 months.

My cyano problem is more than a little bloom. My tank is basically a cyano lined glass box at this point.

I am just trying to eliminate sources for my cyano problem.
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  #4  
Old 01/08/2008, 07:19 PM
ManotheSea ManotheSea is offline
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Cyano is bacteria not an algae and feeds differently. Prolonged low pH can cause a cyano outbreak. I dont know if it would happen in 3 days. Use Red Slime Remover by Chemi Clean. Dose the tank, vacume out all you can get and in 2-3 days your cyano will be gone for good.
  #5  
Old 01/08/2008, 07:26 PM
impur impur is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ManotheSea
Cyano is bacteria not an algae and feeds differently. Prolonged low pH can cause a cyano outbreak. I dont know if it would happen in 3 days. Use Red Slime Remover by Chemi Clean. Dose the tank, vacume out all you can get and in 2-3 days your cyano will be gone for good.
Thanks, thats what i was looking for. I find it odd though, the correlation of prodibio use and increased cyano is pretty abundant.

I've used chemi clean 3 times and it does nothing to this cyano.
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  #6  
Old 01/08/2008, 11:34 PM
reefkoi reefkoi is offline
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IME Cyano is usually cured by a high flow tank.
I have 2 tanks both sharing water, skimmer, sump e.t.c.
The main display has never had cyano or bryopsis or anything.
The little tank with less flow has both. 2 tanks one system so I blame it on lack of flow and lack of tangs and other snails, herbivores e.t.c.
C
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  #7  
Old 01/09/2008, 07:11 AM
fishysteve fishysteve is offline
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Maybe it is dinoflaggellates.
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  #8  
Old 01/09/2008, 07:24 AM
wayne in norway wayne in norway is offline
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You're likely not helped by the fact that if you've had cyano for 6 months any beneficial,desirable bacteria have been outcompeted and starved to death ........

You need to fix the cyano and reseed your bacteria as well.
  #9  
Old 01/09/2008, 08:54 AM
Sudad Sudad is offline
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Try to increase your alk (KH about 8-9 dH°) and try to hold pH between 8,2-8,4 to stop the massive grow of cyano.

The other water parameters should be at correct level.

Then clean your rocks and substrate and dose Biodigest (1 Ampulle for 500 Liters) and Bioptim (1 Ampulle for 200 Liter).
Dose it at night, when lights are switched off to have an advantage against the cyanos. Let the skimmer abaout 1 hour off after the dosing.

Repaet this treatment after a week again. The cyanos should be gone after 2 Weeks.

Control your NO3 and PO4. If NO3 is zero and PO4 is high, reduce the PO4 at first or increas NO3 a little. Some cyanos comes when NO3 is too low instead of PO4.

If all parameters are correct and it would not be better after 3 weeks it could be, that you haven't cyanos.
You have maybe dinoflagellates. These similar like cyanos looking algae have an unbelievable expanding facility and could destroy a tank within few days.

But these dinoflagellates are easy to control by increasing pH to an high level about 8,5-8,6 with the "kalkwasser" method.

About correct pH I should say, that many algae problems could be solved by holding the pH at correct level about 8,2-8,4.

Especially if you dose bacteria products like Prodibio etc. you should hold pH above 8,0 and KH above 6-7 dH°. Because the bacterias produce much CO2 and reduce the pH and alk-level.

I wish you good luck!

Sudad
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  #10  
Old 01/09/2008, 11:52 AM
impur impur is offline
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IME Cyano is usually cured by a high flow tank.
I have 2 tanks both sharing water, skimmer, sump e.t.c.
The main display has never had cyano or bryopsis or anything.
The little tank with less flow has both. 2 tanks one system so I blame it on lack of flow and lack of tangs and other snails, herbivores e.t.c.
C


I have over 4000gph in my 75gal tank giving me over 55X turnover.

Maybe it is dinoflaggellates.

Actually i had both. The dinos went away and have stayed away since turning the lights off for 3 days straight.

You're likely not helped by the fact that if you've had cyano for 6 months any beneficial,desirable bacteria have been outcompeted and starved to death ........

You need to fix the cyano and reseed your bacteria as well.


Funny thing is, a lot of the advice here is "let it run its course", which obviously is not the best advice. So would reseeding the bacteria help fix the cyano, or do i need to get rid of the cyano THEN reseed? And are you talking about the prodibio bacteria?
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  #11  
Old 01/09/2008, 11:58 AM
impur impur is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sudad
Try to increase your alk (KH about 8-9 dH°) and try to hold pH between 8,2-8,4 to stop the massive grow of cyano.

The other water parameters should be at correct level.

Then clean your rocks and substrate and dose Biodigest (1 Ampulle for 500 Liters) and Bioptim (1 Ampulle for 200 Liter).
Dose it at night, when lights are switched off to have an advantage against the cyanos. Let the skimmer abaout 1 hour off after the dosing.

Repaet this treatment after a week again. The cyanos should be gone after 2 Weeks.

Control your NO3 and PO4. If NO3 is zero and PO4 is high, reduce the PO4 at first or increas NO3 a little. Some cyanos comes when NO3 is too low instead of PO4.

If all parameters are correct and it would not be better after 3 weeks it could be, that you haven't cyanos.
You have maybe dinoflagellates. These similar like cyanos looking algae have an unbelievable expanding facility and could destroy a tank within few days.

But these dinoflagellates are easy to control by increasing pH to an high level about 8,5-8,6 with the "kalkwasser" method.

About correct pH I should say, that many algae problems could be solved by holding the pH at correct level about 8,2-8,4.

Especially if you dose bacteria products like Prodibio etc. you should hold pH above 8,0 and KH above 6-7 dH°. Because the bacterias produce much CO2 and reduce the pH and alk-level.

I wish you good luck!

Sudad
Thanks for your reply.

Currently i maintain alk at 9dKH, and my pH goes from a low at night of 8.1 to a high of 8.4 during the day using kalk. The higher my alk, the thicker the cyano. So i'm trying to maintain it at the low end, but still keep my corals healthy.

This morning tests:

pH 8.1
alk - 9dKH
calcium - 420ppm
nitrates - 0ppm
nitrites - 0ppm
ammonia - 0ppm
PO4 - 0ppm
temp - 79.8

I'm sure this is cyano, and not dinos. As i stated above, i had both at the same time for a period but the dinos have gone away. I am assuming my problem is PO4, regardless of the result from my test kit. But i have no idea where it would be coming from. These rocks are over 3 years old in my tanks, i would think any PO4 would have been release prior to this.

I will give the prodibio dosing another shot as you outlined and report back in a few weeks.

Thanks again.
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  #12  
Old 01/09/2008, 12:06 PM
J. Montgomery J. Montgomery is offline
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A friend of mine had a similar problem with cyano taking over his SPS dominated system that had been stable for 2+ yr soon after he installed a calcium reactor. He now thinks that the problem was the calcium reactor media that he was using. I don't know the brand, but that what he believes caused his problems.
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  #13  
Old 01/09/2008, 12:18 PM
impur impur is offline
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I considered that, but i used the same media in my previous tank with no problems. And the reactor was only online for 2-3 days.

I did my WC last night, i use a brush on all the walls of the tank and rocks i can't blast with the baster. I'd guess i took out around a gallon of cyano. Its pretty gross. I do this weekly, and its getting old. I am going to battle for another couple months, but if no progress is seen i'll just break the tank down, toss all the rock, and start new.
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  #14  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:48 AM
wayne in norway wayne in norway is offline
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Sorry for the delay in replying. You could try reseeding with Prodibio or an equivalent or , and this would be my preference, replace some live rock. I say it's my preference because I belive that the prodibio product and the similar Fauna Marin product claim to provide cultures of 5 bacteria, and I thik the exact bacteria needed/provided is still open to question. At least with some decent quality live rock you are getting a better, wider variety of bacteria. In response I know of people who use these bottled cultures very, very successfully to avoid bacterial monoculture so who am I to doubt the professional companies work.

I tihnk one of the reasons tanks that have been plagued with algae for a long time take a long time to recover is that people kill back algae and wait for the bacteria to take over, howwever the bacteria are long gone.
  #15  
Old 01/10/2008, 12:06 PM
impur impur is offline
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That makes sense. I've added about 30lbs of rock in the middle of this mess, probably 45-60 days ago i did that. It was just rock from someone's tank tear down and i had hoped the bacteria would work just as you describe. I'm glad i'm on the right track. I still have lots of room for rock in the tank, i'd say i only have about 60-70lbs total. I'll try tracking down more these next couple of weeks.

I'm going to go the rest of the month with my vigorous routine of scraping, syphoning, and large WCs and then try to reseed with the prodibio.

Thanks for your responses everyone. Wish me luck!
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