DSB in a bucket for nitrate control - Page 18

32flavors · #**426** 06/20/2007, 03:11 AM

oh man, what a thread!! I apologize for what I'm sure is a redundant question--I've read much but not all of this thread...

I have a 120 I'm moving into...

Will a 5 gal bucket filled to 5" from top do it?

What is the recommended GPH through there, and would it be adviseable to have this in a stage say right after my Coil Denitrator but before the skimmer which I use for re-O2ing water before return to tank?

Flow:

overflow to safety chamber (I've seen some small fish Yashe Hashi, Blue-spot Watchmen end up in overflows, so I don't use a sock), thru 6 layers floss, to Coil Denitrator, sits in sump in case ever starts to leak, gravity dump to 2nd sump to LARGE macro chamber (CO2 rich CD water good for plants), to last chamber where water is skimmed before return. There's also a phosphate reactor I'm not using as my PO4 is zero that I'm toying with turning into a Sulphur Denitrator--it's back by the Coil denitrator.

What do you all think?

Anthony Calfo · #**427** 07/02/2007, 10:59 AM

the size of your RDSB depends on your bioload, but yes... a 5 gall with~ 60 lbs of sand will work likely fine here. Please do reread at least the very first page (or several) of this thread closely. Therein you will find the meat of the matter re: size, flow, etc.

kharrell · #**428** 10/01/2007, 12:19 AM

I plan on trying this soon.

reeferhabit · #**429** 10/07/2007, 10:21 PM

I currently have a seperate pump plumbed to a turbo twist 9W UV sterilizer, and I wanted to see if I would be feasible to send the return hose from the sterilizer into a 5 gallon RDSB and then back into the sump.

I am trying to avoid adding another pump in my sump condidering I already have a total of 4 pumps in my sump. I have seen people doing this with their skimmer, but if possible I would like to use the pump from the sterilizer.

Any thoughts?

Alan Strauss · #**430** 10/08/2007, 10:37 AM

Reeferhabit
What you are proposing is exactly how I set mine up. I have the water going from my UV to the RDSB. I still have some Nitrate so I set up a reactor with nitrate sponge.

Good Luck

reeferhabit · #**431** 10/08/2007, 12:00 PM

Alan, you da man.

Any chance you have a picture of how you set it up?

When you said, "I set up a reactor with nitrate sponge," can you explain what you mean by that and how this is set up. I am not familar with a nitrate sponges.

Alan Strauss · #**432** 10/08/2007, 01:10 PM

There are a couple of pic's of my RDSB in my gallery. the plumbing is simple. I have a little RIO pump feeding my UV light and the UV the RDSB is in line, back to the sump. Note that you do not want the water moving very quickly through either the sand bed or the UV, that is why I chose to connect them to the same pump. Also if you read this whole thread you will see that you do not want any light in the sand bed which is why I built mine in a black tank with a cover. As far as the Nitrate sponge goes it is available from Kent Marine, the reactor is an inexpensive one made for phosphate removal I actually have 2 of them running 1 with RowaPhos and 1 with the Nitrate sponge.

Alan

snorvich · #**433** 11/15/2007, 11:17 AM

I have read the ozone thread, the refugium thread and now this RDSB thread. I have several questions. I am building a refugium which is separate from my sump. The sump has a protein skimmer (Bubble King). The water is taken from the area after the skimmer and pumped to the refugium which has four zones: an input/aiptasia zone, an algae zone above a benethic or cryptic zone which is created with eggcrate covered by live rock rubble, and finally an output zone. Each of the three areas is separated by baffles. The input to the algae zone has a one inch lip to create horizontal flow to churn the Chaeto. The water is finally gravity fed back to the sump. I am considering insertion of a RDSB between the refugium and sump. (in case you are wondering, all equipment for filtration is in the basement).

My questions are:

1. Is there value in the RDSB in addition to the refugium (refugium is 30 x 20 x 16)?

2. If so, is it better to have greater surface area or greater depth? I can get plastic bins that are longer, wider, or taller at the sacrifice of the other dimensions.

3. I have 350 gallons on this tank, I was considering a RDSB of 12 gallons. Does that seem reasonable?

4. Flow through the refugium is 320 gallons per hour (Eheim 1250) will that be ok for the RDSB?

5. I am committed to the refiugium but I can either go with ozone or a RDSB in addition to it. Any thoughts on which would be the better addition?

And Mr. Calfo, if you are reading, I have purchased both of your books. Thanks in advance for any information.

snorvich · #**434** 11/15/2007, 12:26 PM

And one more question. I have an area that is 18" by 15" but I need to have the output bulkhead at 23 inches high. I could raise it up but is there any upside or downside to a deeper, e.g. 18 inch deep sand bed?

tcmfish · #**435** 11/15/2007, 09:08 PM

Has anyone had one of these crash. It seems like a very awesome idea and I want to employ one on the next tank I set up.

KEstep · #**436** 11/17/2007, 01:32 AM

I have had mine for apx. 2 years and no crash as of yet. My trates are still nondetectable and I still feed the fish a ton daily.

mr.wilson · #**437** 11/17/2007, 11:11 AM

I'm still waiting for someone to post a case where they have added a remote DSB bucket and had there nitrate drop from a significant number (>40 ppm) to a low number (<5 ppm). This is surprising for such a huge thread with so many contributors.

Some have posted that there nitrate is zero, but none have attributed it directly to the remote DSB bucket. The only example was at the beginning of the thread where Anthony Calfo described a 55 gallon tank filled with sand at a LFS. He didn't give all of the details of the tank. It may have been recently set-up, or it may have been in the hands of a typical LFS staff, so I don't know how qualified the endorsement is.

Several people, including myself, have asked this question throughout the thread, but no one has come forward yet. I am a firm believer in DSB use for nitrate reduction, but most of this is based on theory, not empirical data. Proving DSB's work is a relatively easy task with tangible scientific evidence behind it. Proving the quantity and configuration of the sand is another matter entirely.

The most significant DSB study I know of is the one by Bob Toonen, but it has its' limitations. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature

Malifluous · #**438** 11/17/2007, 02:56 PM

Mr Wilson, I'm still waiting for you to do the experiment .

Crazy4salth2o · #**439** 11/18/2007, 11:54 AM

I think no matter how you look at it (empirically, conjecturally, or otherwise) a DSB or RDSB has proven it's value as part of a reef tank system. Whether in the tank or remote...it works the same way as long as you end up with at least about 4" of sand. Calfo correctly makes the point that an unlit sand bed is simply easier to manage in every aspect of application.

MetalReef9 · #**440** 11/26/2007, 03:45 PM

...

ryan_paskadi · #**441** 11/27/2007, 12:13 AM

Yes a dsb is good but there are differences in what kind of sand or substrate you use (chemical composition, grain size). What those diff. are... I dont know.

I would be curious to know what type of sand/mud is best for a dsb....or does it not really matter

snorvich · #**442** 11/27/2007, 06:46 AM

Well to some degree it does not matter but if you read the thread, best results are probably from oolithic aragonite sugar sand.

KafudaFish · #**443** 11/27/2007, 10:33 AM

If I can ever make it to HD or Lowes I will try the experiment. I have a 29 gallon mantis tank that has high nitrates. The tank has been up and running for over a year and I don't add anything to it other than dinner.
The tank is not drilled so I would have to use PVC pipe as a RDSB. I figure 4" pipe and 100# playsand. I would use about 4 or 5 feet of pipe for it to reach above the aquarium.

Of course this is just one observation and would need others to join in to validate the results.

mille239 · #**444** 11/27/2007, 10:42 AM

kafudaFish, are talking about having a RDSB 4-5 feet high, and only 4" in diameter? I believe it was discussed earlier in this thread that anything over 15 inches or so deep is moot, so it seems like it would be a waste of sand. Also, 4" diameter is not much surface area, (12.5 sq in) and won't likely make much of an impact on your tank. Furthermore, providing flow to this RDSB which does not stir up such a small surface area may be difficult as well.
If you do choose to try this route, might I suggest only making the sand bed about 12" deep, and place a cap on the bottom of the PVC at this height. you could then use the rest of the 4-5' length of pvc to act as a stand for the shorter section to sit on, allowing it to be above the height of your tank.
I think you would be better off building a small pedastal or stand next to your tank and using a 5 gallon bucket as mentioned throughout this thread for much better results.
good luck!

KafudaFish · #**445** 11/27/2007, 11:07 AM

Mille,yes one of my concerns with this is the surface area of the container. There would still be water exchange in the interstitial spaces even if the sand depth was several feet rather than one foot deep. I think the argument against going deeper is the effectiveness once the water reaches hypoxic and anoxic regions in the sand.
Blair, do you mean something like this bottom up: 4 feet pvc, cap, 12 - 15 inches of pipe with sand, cap to seal? How would I section off the pipe? I am trying to figure out how just cannot picture it in my mind.

The reason I was thinking of using pvc pipe is I don't have room behing my aqarium to place a 5 gallon bucket but maybe I could do a square kitty litter bucket. Another thing I could do is build a stand with 2 x 4's.

I wonder if my wife would notice?

mille239 · #**446** 11/27/2007, 11:51 AM

I guess it was a little confusing... maybe this drawing will help.

asonitez · #**447** 11/27/2007, 12:55 PM

Can I just use a Canister Filter? with a Maxijet in my Sump Pushing water through and the spray bar in the Canister Filter Spraying into my Refugium?

snorvich · #**448** 11/27/2007, 03:51 PM

asonitez, I think you would be wise to go back and read the thread. You are revisiting questions already asked and answers already provided multiple times.

morbid0000 · #**449** 11/28/2007, 09:57 AM

100gal reef
6gal glass carboy filled 3/4 with sand [tubing through rubber plug, carboy in a black bag to block light] and fed by maxijet 1200
Running since 01/05 with no sand changes
Initial nitrates 80
Current nitrates 40
RDSB output nitrates 0
I love this thing.

KafudaFish · #**450** 11/28/2007, 11:58 AM

Morbid,
Is this a 6 gallon carboy used in beer brewing? I have several under the house and this would solve the problem of drilling anything but again my issue is space. I might have a 3 gallon around too that could work.
I wonder how a wrapping paper container would work? It is tall, has a greater surface area, narrow and cheaper than pvc. The only downside might be the flexible sides and the bulkhead opening leaking.