Starting Over

[mhaith]

I just broke down a 13 yr. old 55 gal reef with 30 gal sump/refug. with 4X55w PC. It gave me basic reef knowledge and a general understanding of how much this hobby costs.

Just bought used FO 2X2X7 210 acrylic with 50 gal sump/refug, skimmer and 6 PC (4X24"-2X36") and UV. The hood is one piece low profile with about 8" of clearance (which limits lighting options). large amount of live rock/sand. Fish include Niger Trigger, Naso, Yellow, Sailfin Tang, Maroon Clown, Dogface Puffer, 4" Black white a couple of white patches wrasse (?), Yellow Damsel, 3 Choc. Chip Stars.

I want to convert to SPS.

Sooooooo, I need to upgrade/change out a lighting system, add Calc & Kalk reactors, get rid of reef non-friendly fish (Puffer, Trigger, Stars) and essentially take my knowledge, budget and time to next level. No fish room, no basement, just a stand with a little more room underneath,a crawl space and a garage 100 feet away with an RO and a couple of big trash cans for Salt/make up water.

So, let's start with the lighting. 12XT5's are what the fish store is pushing. I have found some used 250MH I can pair with the current PCs but will they work in the low hood and how much heat? Cost, hood space and heat are the considerations.

Any suggestions how I can equip and stock this baby without breaking the bank? (I don't need new!-I'm not proud!)

The good news is I am starting with a somewhat clean slate, a little bit of knowledge and a really big tank!

[Beetle_Mania]

well i would use MH personally......they do get hot though so you would need fans and may want them about 10 or so inches off the water . with that big of a tank you will also need more like 3 250W Mh tanks.....really there is no great way to light a 210G with out a nice chunk of change.

[hoodrat]

If you go to premier reef their 180 gallon tank in front of the fragtanks if i rememebr it has 12 t5's on it. T5's are gonna run alot cooloer will fit inside of your hood with no issues. And you can run any combo of bulbs to get it to look the way you want it to look.But in the end you are the one who has to flip the bill for the lights and have to be satisfied with the way it looks. Personally i would go t5's just because it is easier to color you want and i have had no issues with growth out of t5's and sps. Just my .02 of course

[EriksReptiles]

I vote MH lights too... Definatly put some fans in though. We use 3 250 watt MH on our 180 along with 4 48" VHO's (96 watts each). We mainly have SPS too. Everything grows like crazy. On the 180 gallon tank we have 6 fans and a chiller. A chiller is the only thing that you might need since the lights would be so close to the water...

We do have a smaller tank with just VHO lights but it doesn't look as good as the tank with the MH does, and things dont grow as fast (they do still grow though)..

Thanks Erik

[Clown-N-Around]

I notice slower growth and less vibrant color with T5 than MH, but to date I have only 2 bulbs (thanks to Cris at Aquatic Art that will change shortly! I have a 5 bulb fixture on order). I will keep everyone posted as I may need to revise my personal comparison.

MH is still the ideal for SPS performance in my opinion. If you go with MH, I would change your hood. If you are not wanting to do that, go with T5. You can still get great results without all of the other issues (primarily heat) that you would be constantly battling if you did not change your hood.

[aspenimages]

The two smartest things I've done are add a chiller and switching from MH to T5's. The T5's are amazing! You lose that "flicker" effect, which makes me sick personally. I have read pros and cons with acros and such, so maybe spend some serious time researching. Keep in mind the T5 revolution is just getting going, so seek out people who have had one and then switched to the other.

[mhaith]

I can get a used 3X250MH for a great deal which make some sense but the hood is so low requiring maybe a chiller which I would like to avoid. There are fans in the hood which is fine but what makes the MH so much better?
Premier showed me their tank and wants me to buy the T5s.
Hoodrat, how long has your tank been up? Think the T5s give good growth?

[hoodrat]

On my 90 gallon frag tank i have a 8x54 watt current setup with 1 reflector and i have great growth. The frag tank has been up for 7 months and if you would like you can come over and take a look. I also have mh on my 125 which i am taking down and moving into a 120 which i will be lightining with all t5's. Just rememeber when you average in what it is all gonna cost to add in the cost of the chiller the fans a dn the halides. Bulbs for halides are about $100 t5's are $25 but you need 4 times the amount. It is all going to come down to personal preferance int he end I have had both and i enjoy the growth and the colors i can get with t5's. You might want to shoot a pm too Grim reefer and he can prob explain the diff the best Thanks mike

[hoodrat]

Oops almost forgot if you are gonna go from the start with t5's get seperate reflectors and the difference in lighting is amazing.

[artful-dodger]

Having tanks with T-5 and MH lighting, I'd strongly recommend the T-5 for your situation. You'll still need to ventilate the hood but you can get a lot of light out of the T-5s, especially if overdriven with an Icecap ballast.

The only way I could see using enough MH on that setup would be to either replace the canopy (ouch!) or modify it to remove the top entirely and keep the 8" skirt" as a light containment tool.

If you have lots of time for reading, here's a great (and long) thread on T-5 lighting (run, in large part, by our own Grim Reefer). This has two years of Q&A...at least 300 pages now.

Gary

(Also--just curious why you're planning both a calcium reactor and kalkwasser?)

[mhaith]

I took hours to review all of the 'Tanks of the Month' and it seems that each and every one used Kalkwasser to add additional calcium beyond the Calcium Reactor and maintain proper PH.
Moving on from the T5/MH (thanks for the T5 thread advice and the seque)
Any advice on reactors?

[Mr.Biggs]

I think that the reflector makes a big difference in any type of lighting.

Me I prefer MH with a luminarc or mini reflector biggest bang for your buck. You can get good bulbs at less then $30 each so $90 a year in this case.

You will need to go to a different hood setup to make this work.

However I don't think this is the best option with your setup.

You will not find a good reflector that will fit in your hood with out trapping a lot of heat.

chiller=$$$ both in startup and running cost.
You could set up the system to evap more water and not have to run a chiller, but you have limited space and this would be harder.

Mh have a single point source of light and the intensity is better then other types of light. They do require a good reflector to spread and make good use of the light.

T-5 are probably the best option for you.
The long tube spreads the light out for better light distribution with a short hood height. In this case the reflector will make or break the t-5 also. Each bulb will need it's own reflector to make the best use of your $. You can get better air flow around the t-5 in the shallow hood height you have. This will cool the light and the tank better. Because of this you can get the light closer to the water and increase the light out put to the coral.

bulb cost will be higher with t-5s 12*$20(or more)/1.5 = $160 a year.

For the most part 500 Watts of light ether t-5 or Mh will = 500w of heat in your house, but if it passes to the water in your tank is a different story.

[jgonzz]

MH all the way 400watt 20k xm luminarc reflectors

Josh

[Clown-N-Around]

Originally posted by mhaith
I took hours to review all of the 'Tanks of the Month' and it seems that each and every one used Kalkwasser to add additional calcium beyond the Calcium Reactor and maintain proper PH.
Moving on from the T5/MH (thanks for the T5 thread advice and the seque)
Any advice on reactors?

I don't have enough calcium drain (keep mostly softies and some LPS) to warrant a reactor, so I dose. I just thought I would post to reiterate the subject change you requested.

[mhaith]

Read through all of the T5 information and will now either work with LFS or Reef Geek installing 12 T5s.
Now I need to do some research on the rest of the gear.
Any thoughts on a dosing for a soon-to-be heavily loaded SPS 210?

[artful-dodger]

Dosing with both Kalkwasser and using a Ca reactor is fine...but is overkill until your system matures quite a bit. The extra expense (in my opinion) is better spent on an aquarium controller--the one thing that I really wish I'd gotten earlier!

Start by dosing Kalkwasser (cheapest) for topoff water. If your system outgrows that source consider dosing with 2 part Ca/Alk. Either will keep your calcium and alkalinity in ideal ranges for quite a while.

Only when you start having trouble keeping Ca and Alk up will you need to spend the *big* bucks for the Ca reactor and CO2 equipment. (That money spent on the controller can now be leveraged to do pH control of the CO2 as well.)

(I also don't think that trying to initially load the tank with SPS is a good strategy...you'll do better and enjoy it more if you let small frags grow into big colonies...)

Gary


"That's just my opinion--I could be wrong." -- Dennis Miller

[mhaith]

Great advice. Anyone else have some thoughts on dosing?
As for frags, I will start with those from the LFS and let things grow and mature.
One thing I learned with my last reef 13 yrs, is that patience and slow going save money and marine lives!

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by Clown-N-Around
I notice slower growth and less vibrant color with T5 than MH, but to date I have only 2 bulbs (thanks to Cris at Aquatic Art that will change shortly! I have a 5 bulb fixture on order). I will keep everyone posted as I may need to revise my personal comparison.

MH is still the ideal for SPS performance in my opinion. If you go with MH, I would change your hood. If you are not wanting to do that, go with T5. You can still get great results without all of the other issues (primarily heat) that you would be constantly battling if you did not change your hood.

Sounds like the aquactinics fixture. You will notice a little difference with the 3 extra lamps

[crisc]

I agree with the T-5 option for you with the hood only being 8" deep. Most of the canopies that are made for halides are 14" high. considering the mounting of the socket, you will lose another couple of inches and be flirting with disaster. Disaster meaning the bulb will be about 5" from the water. Any hungry fish can (murphy's law) splash water on a hot bulb and cause some fireworks. I personally like both. Halides and t-5/vho. If you decide to modify the hood's height, PFO makes a good reflector that can incorporate both in a retro. Otherwise, Aquatinics makes great fixtures, some T5 only, some with both. They have splash guards on them to help as well. Although splash guards need to be cleaned frequently to keep light penetration where you want it.

As far as dosing, 2-part will be fine for a while. I think a calcium reactor is the best tool for dosing when the demand is there. Starting with small frags and growing them out won't produce a big demand for a while. I dose kalkwasser and have a reactor. I also dose calcium/buffer/and mag chloride to "top off" my test readings. Just test whatever you are dosing to make sure you are not overdosing.

HTH

Cris