I need EXPERT advice! I am about to give up.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by Sk8r
Try to get to:
alk: 8.3-11
cal: 400-420
salinity 1.024-6
temp 80
mg. 1200
phosphate 0
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0...
And I absolutely agree: get a TDS meter [total dissolved solids] and test the water of that fish store you have been relying on.
When you have problems that defy solution, best go to a) what's unusual [you've answered that], and b) what have I trusted without question [that fish store.]

I gotta put my own two cents in on this, though Sk8r's is just fine.

Alk: 7-11 dKH
Calcium: 360-480. This depends on what type of tank you are keeping. A Clam/SPS tank should have around 450ppm but not over 480ppm. A mixed tank is advisable to keep at Natural Sea Water levels; 380-420ppm.
Temperature: 80ºF This allows for a safer, natural fluctuation. If it varies up to +/- 2ºF, then you are still good to go. Of course, long term success means stable parameters.
Specific Gravity: 1.022-1.027 1.025 is prefered and 1.025-1.026 is Natural Sea Water.
Magnesium: 1250-1300 ppm This is where I disagree with Sk8r. Magnesium helps the control the amount of Calcium in water before it percipitates out.
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Phosphate: 0ppm Though you can have a successful mixed reef with Nitrates up to 20 ppm. It isn't recommended though. Even a FOWLR or FO can see large amounts of 40-80ppm and thrive. But you have to remember, nitrates inhibit cellular growth.


***FWIW, don't think that you have it bad. It's not that bad. My friend and me have been working on a severely neglected 300g tank. It was eight years old without a waterchange, bioballs, and crushed coral before we began work on it. Nitrates were off the charts on all test kits. It was only a matter of a couple seconds for it to max. Most Nitrate test kits make you wait anywhere from one minute to five minutes, but we maxed the chart in 1-2 seconds. After weekly 50% water changes, we eventually got it to a readable level. We were guessing that the Nitrates were in the range of 800ppm. We were surprised that life was still in the tank.

[Chupakabra-King]

I wanted to add this to my original post .

During the 2 years my tank was dormant, I had powerheads running in the tank for circulation , the sump was shut down , and the lights were off the whole time. My tap water has phosphates , silicates and nitrates in it in detectible levels . Can you imagine what the levels were after two years of adding that tap water to the tank for two years for topoff ? It was crazy ! Sponges were thriving in that soup ! I have some big ole sponges in every color , and the featherduster worms survived too . I couldn't believe it . I got all those levels down through basic waterchanges and manual nuisance algae removal /macroalgae pruning. Now you cant detect anything . I am not saying this to toot my own horn , just saying that it works. It will work for you . You have to make doubly sure your water reads 0 TDS before you put it in .

[Sk8r]

That's a good way to go. I paid 200.00 for mine, but I think I was a bit over-priced---I know there are some closer to 100; I'm not sure about a 30.00, but they do save you on buying water, especially with water-changes. In about a year or two you can pay for even a 200.00 one, if you add it up.

[ziggy222]

i had the exact same problem for several yrs when i 1st got into saltwater.the local fish store sold me a bunch of lava rock and a cpl pounds of live rock and a prizm skimmer to switch my freshwater over to salt.a yr ago,after many dead fish snails and about anything i put in my tank dead.a new store opened and set me straight.the air tube inside my prizm shrunk so i paid $0.25 for a new hose and removed all my live rock and bought a 130watt power compact light.everything changed.oh and i added lr,now i have 35lbs.the hair algae died off then i had a red slime algae bloom.then it was clear.not even a year later i have a very clean tank with healthy corals and a nice dwarf lion.i think the main problem was the lava rock,which should never ever be put in sw.

[ziggy222]

opps i meant to say i removed all the lava rock,the live rock stayed

[Monkey_Bone]

I would NEVER buy RO or pre mixed water from an LFS.

YOu just never know whats in it for sure or when they changed
the membranes last.
I would bet my last dollar your problem is phosphates cause by the ro-premix your buying from the LFS.
Test for phosphates when you get a chance. (in both the tank water and the Ro-premix from the LFS).


Buy several Lettuce nudibranchs. They will much like the dickens on that air algae all the way down to the nub.

[Angel*Fish]

Sorry if this has already been covered - I didn't read everyword of every post

I can't imagine 1/2 cube of frozen food daily being too much food unless you don't have any fish

I too had my tank go fallow over the course of 2 years when I got out of the hooby. When i started it back up - there were a few rocks that had bryopsis on them - i threw them out. After a few weeks some more popped up on some rocks.... I threw out several more & smushed some 2-part epoxy over some isolated spots. Soon I discovered that the holey rock I had would grow bryopsis no matter what, so I threw all of that out.

It's been 1-1/2 -2 years since & not a bit of the stuff - not even a little (knock on wood)

Just one person' experience
BTW I am a heavy feeder - I feed as much as 10 cubes frozen mysis in one day

I also have obtained a fairly large skimmer - but it took me 6 months to get it up and running. I work on keeping my dsb "happy" by not having any fish that eat worms or anything. Although i have 2 spotted mandarins who munch pods

Cleaning crew - No crabs allowed. 1 large turbo, one orange turbo about 4 nassarious snalls and some kind of snail that is reproducing (cerinth? started with 3, now at night I see maybe 20 teeny tiny ones

Before


After


I use RO water but haven't upgraded to DI
i have 26 fish - but they're all small

Hope this helps - and good luck. I hate nuisance algae so much that it almost didn't hurt to toss some of my LR

[Angel*Fish]

Most of the snails are gone, and pretty much all the turbos are missing. I put a cleaner shrimp in there and he is gone.

They may be starving to death - you probably have too many & hermit crabs are snail killers..

Also agree on weekly 20% water changes & making sure the water is good

Important IMO>>>> I would suggest importing some "new" sand from other established tanks. If a LFS has a tank with lots of life in the sand - sometimes i'll buy several cupfuls. If you know local reefers with established sand beds - you can get more from them - the more the merrier and the wider the diversity. i know you don't have a dsb but this will still go a long way toward establishing your system. If you go the dsb route & add dry sand get oolitic - don't settle for anything else. The grains are more round leaving room for the bacteria you need to grow in your tank

[dstalfire]

First I want to thank everyone who responed to my plea for help. I have decided to try and stick it out. I truly love the hobby!

I went and bought a TDS meter, and I am aliitle confused.

I tested 3 different water sources and here is what I got.

Tap water from my sink = 527 on the meter. I guess this is ppm.
Water from the frige, which has a filter = 405
Water from the LFS which is ro/di = 758?

Is that normal for the water I am buying to be higher then tap water? Could this be the root of all my evil hair algae?

I truly appreciate your input.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Your tap water is high, but about right depending on where you come from. Heck, mine is about 660 straight from the faucet. The refrigerator's filter is probably old, but it's still doing a decent job, but the LFS needs to change their filters. If they have an RO/DI unit, they should have way less than 20 ppm. Ideally, they should have about 0-10. I would immidiately stop buying from the LFS. A good part is, you are probably testing chlorine and/or chloramine from your tap water and there is probably little nitrates and phosphates. But since the store hasn't changed their filters, the filters concentrate all the bad stuff such as nitrates, phosphates, and iron. All of which powers algal growth. Not to mention copper might be building up and leeching from their filters.

In short, your water is pretty bad, but it might just be something that can easily be taken care of. The LFS water is the worst and is most likely built up bad stuff leeching back out. In fact, I would place money down that the bulk of your problems is with the LFS water.

This is just another good reason to have your own unit if you are going to use RO, DI, or RO/DI water.

[dstalfire]

I just got it yesterday. I am going to set it up today and tomorrow! Damn LFS"!

[Travis L. Stevens]

Good for you! That's great news! Before you disown the LFS, do a little test for the Reef Central members. Get some of their water and do a nitrate and phosphate test on their water.

[Bkndsdl]

Holy $**t - - the LFS DEFINITELY needs to change their filters. My TDS meter @home reads about 220 in, and 0-4 out.

I agree w/Travis about talking to the LFS....I would ask them if they would test their water, and I'd like to watch........

[dstalfire]

I had another fish store test thier Phosphates only and they said it was ok?

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by dstalfire
I had another fish store test thier Phosphates only and they said it was ok?

Once again, you can't accept things like "Okay", "Fine", or even "Bad" from anyone. Numbers are facts; omments are opinions. You can still have phosphates in your system and be "okay".

[Bkndsdl]

Like I said, I'd ask to see the results. If they're honest, they will have no problem with you seeing the results of their tests.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Also, once you have your filter unit, test the TDS of it. Then use this formula to find out your Rejection Rate:

100 - ((X/Y)100) = Z

X = Filtered Water's TDS
Y = Tap Water's TDS
Z = Rejection Rate (In Percentage)

For example, we have some tap water that reads 500 ppm on the TDS Meter. After it has been filtered, it's at a meager 20 ppm on the TDS Meter. So, we plug those numbers in: 100 - ((20/500)100) = Z. Simplify that a little to: 100 - ((.04)100) = Z. Break it down a little more 100 - 4 = Z. Another step: 96=Z. Finally, we now know that Z is 96. So, your rejection rate is 96%

Given the above formula, your refrigerator only rejects 23% of the stuff that goes through it. Yuck

[cwegescheide]

WOW!!!! LFS 758!!! Good move getting your own RO/DI.

This should have a great positive impact in your reef. I'd be doing regular large water changes for a few months.

Good luck,
Chris

[Chupakabra-King]

Sounds like the LFS was screwing you and not using any lube !

Sheeeshhhhh , 758 ! Might as well have been using muddy water !

[crustin]

all i can say is never give up

[smorrow5773]

You didn't test premixed saltwater from the lfs did you? You need to test freshwater tds.

[dstalfire]

I only tested the fresh. If you try and test salt it reads error. I wonder if this is fueling my hair algae problems?

I also just added a 5 gallon dsb. It was pretty cool making it.

[dstalfire]

According to the above formula I am rejecting64% with my new filter. The filter I got is

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll..._BIN_Stores_IT

[herringpj]

Try the following:

1. Cut down on feeding. Try cutting down by 50%
2. Not all R/O water is equally free of nutrients. Consider adding a dionization chamber if you don't already have one.
3. Reduce the frequency of water changes to once every two weeks. If you have less than clean water as your source, your high frequency of water changes will be accentuating the problem.
4. Cut back the length of time you have your lights running and consider turning off your compacts completely.

I've found that deep sand beds can harbor nutrients and re-release them back into your system over time. As a result, the changes you make above may take several weeks to take effect. Persevere and you will see results.

Good Luck!

[Travis L. Stevens]

Originally posted by dstalfire
According to the above formula I am rejecting64% with my new filter. The filter I got is

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll..._BIN_Stores_IT

It sounds like you either have a faulty unit or a previously used unit. For that "type" of filter, I would be extremely upset if I was getting 80-85% Rejection Rate. I could deal with it if I was getting 90%, but I would strive for 95% or better.