what size tank is ' best'

[hurtback]

i've been reading bout everyone's big size tanks--what is ,or is there a right size? I would like to start a reef tank, but want to set it up like what the ocean looks like---in the ocean, you do have reefs, but there's tons of fish swimming around--so i dont what a big tank with corals and such and just a few fish---does this thinking make sense, and would this type of tank work--a tank with corals and fish---lots of fish
tank size would be as big as my basement would handle--( not the whole basement, wife would have something to say them )i was thinkinfg about something like 12ftx30x30--these measurements are not exact---just thinking outloud
also---as fas a expense, thats not an issue either---
i have a 55 and a 40 hex----with some fish,lr, and ---thats it!!!--this just might turn into another ' new tank thread '
once i start planning i will be asking for yoyr thoughts on pumps, light, sumps, etc---all the good stuff that goes along with setting up a ' large '

[mflamb]

I don't believe there is such a thing as a "best" tank size. What's best is one that fits your space, your knowledge and your wife's budget. JMO!!!
Mike

[hurtback]

' best' size meaning ---what would look best, would size is easiest to maintan ---what size is good for lighting---etc--
and as far as my wifes budget---thats something that is not talked about---she doesnt ask--i dont tell

[mflamb]

hurtback...great news on the budget. I have a similar agreement. I use my "allowance"...no accountability. As for size, look at a lot of tanks and see what pleases you. You can correctly light any size tank with the appropriate $$$. Personally a 31" tall tank is plenty deep enough with a sandbed to make it visually appealing for me. Maintenance is made easier with automation.
Mike

[MammothReefer]

Well, for reef tanks I prefer a tank with dept, my tank is 36" deep, which is great for the amount of room I have but I would love to go something along the lines of 8'x5'x2'

I don't really like having tanks that are 2 tall, 1 light pentration drops off, and 2 it's really hard to reach!

So, when it comes to size I think a big factor outside the obvious (budget) is what are you willing to do to work on it? Stick your Arm in, stick half your body in with a snorkle? Or jump right in. I don't think I'd want to deal with a tank that I can't adjust things without a big production.

[stlouisguy]

Cost is not an issue? For the tank you are descibing with equipment rock ect reef from scratch, figure $25,000 at a minimum to do it right.

Do research for a few years, start with a 120 or 180 for a year or two, then make the plunge

Just my 2 cents worth

[nyvp]

Originally posted by stlouisguy
Cost is not an issue? For the tank you are descibing with equipment rock ect reef from scratch, figure $25,000 at a minimum to do it right.

Do research for a few years, start with a 120 or 180 for a year or two, then make the plunge

Just my 2 cents worth

I dont know about that. I have a 120x36x30 glass 3 sided low iron and I'm sitting at 15k atm.

[stlouisguy]

That includes all rock, sand, salt, stand, lights, tank, plumbing and piping, skimmer, calcium reactor, fish, corals, tunzes (if you go that way) air changer, etc.? 15k is really good if thats all you have in at that point.

[dgasmd]

I agree with NYVP.

As for which is "best", that is like asking what food taste best. It is a matter of taste, budget (even if there is no limit there are common sense rules still), desire, ultimate utility, etc. What I consider "big" some consider a mid size tank and other call it gargantous. You ahve to be a little more specific than that unfortunately.

[hurtback]

ok---big to me --i'm thinking bout something along the range of 12 ft long, 3 ft wide,3 ft deep---
best--- meaning---a tank size where you can have corals and fish, and the fish have plenty of room to swim in--just like the ocean--does this sound kinda wierd?---i just dont want to get a tank, fill it with corals and a few fish, and then after getting it all together regret it cause its to small--so i guess the tank i want will probably have to be made---

[dgasmd]

Find someone that has a 360g tank or bigger and have a long chat about it with them. The answer you are looking for exist only in your head, so nobody else can give it to you. I think there is a fine line that divides a fun large tank and a tank that is too large that it is more like work than fun. Where that line lies is very different for everyone. Find out where it is at for you and go as close to it as possible without crossing it. To me, it was my current tank.

Good luck!!

[hurtback]

' tanks ' for your input---your remarks have in fact given me some things to ponder over--thats why i was asking these questions
--steve--

[hahnmeister]

For a first reef, I wouldnt go that big. Sure, its large and stable, but when you start going above 180g, you step into the realm of tanks that need a little more $$$ and know how. There is just more to plan ahead for, more $$$, and proper tank design before setup is critical... electrical, plumbing, structural, etc.

I would consider a 120g or 180g to be the largest a starter tank... larger than this and you step into the 'mega tank' realm where you have to start adding things like dedicated plumbing, water changing mixing tanks (you arent going to lug 50 gallons by hand every few weeks), a fish room, basement sump, etc. Maaaaybe a 240g (4x4x2 or 8x2x2) would squeeze in under this threshold due to their forgiving dimensions... but larger than this, and I would consider the tank more of an 'indistrial' adventure.

If you fancy a large tank, by all means, plan on it for a second tank... because if you think you are going to get it all 'just-right' the first time, dont fool yourself. You will descover new equipment, new techniques, tricks, lighting, etc... that you will want to use, but wont be able to on an existing tank.

[Angel*Fish]

Good advice above -

Also, you should have some idea of what types of fishes you plan to keep - Some need more swimming space even though they aren't particularly large. The more fish you want of the same genus, they more space you will need.

And depending on your fish choices, I recommend that you consider including some open sand areas. In addition to being pleasing to the eye and in some cases more natural for your fish, there are fish which thrive in these zones like jawfish for example - or with a few rocks, cherub angels.

Just my 2 cents

[hurtback]

i fully understand what your saying--and i was even starting to think---maybe i should start ' smaller '---thats what i dont want to have to do---start with a different size tank, spend dollars on all the necessay equipment just to ' learn' then have to go thru the hassle of trying to sell off everything and start getting more equipment for the ' larger ' tank---i would rather spend my time and money ' now ' of going thru the hassle of buying the right equipment---rc seems to be loaded with people who have ' been there'--- 'went thru that '---so why should'nt i try to make use out of everyone's experience and plan and startup a ' large ' tank--do it right the first time---
from what i've read so far on rc there are alot of people who are willing to share their opinions and experiences on their tanks--so, by asking questions and putting together info from all who contribute, putting together and starting up a ' large ' tank should'nt really be so hard
my youngest is now 19, in college---i now have the time and desire to put things together for setting up something bigger then what i have now, which is a ' small ' 55
plus---part of having a ' salt water tank ' in my opinion ---is the setting up, buying the equipment and getting things running so that when the tank is finished, the enjoyment you get from looking at it and having others oohhh and aahh over it makes all of your effort worth it

please--keep your opinions and experiences coming
the more info i can gather, the smarter i become (haha)
steve

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, but you dont know about some things until you try. You dont know if you are going to prefer Halides, or T5s... 10,000K bulbs or 20,000Ks. SPS or LPS... Ricordeas or Leathers... get what I mean? Closed loops or Tunze Streams...low flow sump or high flow.... needlewheel skimmers or beckett skimmers... prodobio or zeovit, or neither... live rock or aragacrete...bare bottom, deepsand bed, or shallow sand bed... berlin method, or jaubert.

No amount of other's input can help you make these decisions without you trying out these things on your own. Sure, I can tell you what to get, how to do things, etc... according to what I think is the best possible setup (right down to tank dimensions and how many electrical lines to run), but over time you may not agree and want to hange.

Thinking back to when I first started keeping a reek tank, I know that the 'ultimate' tank I would have designed for myself would have been very different from what I consider 'ultimate' now.

I wouldnt look at it so much as a waste of money.... one thing we can do is help you pick components that are 'future proof' so you dont have to go buying all new equipment when you make that switch from the '180g to the 400g'. Good planning can eliminate the need to have to buy all new equipment, but rather just add on. For instance, rather than use fixtures for lighting, use pendants and retrofits. These can work on a 75g, or a 300g, simply by adding more. If you buy a calcium reactor, simply buy one that is made for a 500g, and use it on the smaller tank... same for the skimmer. In the end, the only waste of money will be the tank itself and the stand, but thats always easy to sell and get back most of the money you spent.

The rock and corals that you grow right now will easily be able to be moved to the larger tank, and it may cost you less down the road anyways since you will have established LR and corals that you can simply transplant.

Here would be my list for a 180-240g...
1. Tank, center back overflow with dual 1" drains, and a single 3/4" return.
2. Stand & Canopy of your choice
3. 3-4x 250watt double ended Metal Halides with 10,000K bulbs (Lumenarc DE reflectors and PFO HQI ballasts)
4. 8x 54watt T5 retrofit with Icecap SLR reflector upgrade. 4x ATI blue+ bulbs, 4x UVL Super Actinic bulbs.
5. Tunze Streams: 4x6100s with multicontroller.
6. 3x Ebo Jager 250watt heaters
7. 75g All-Glass tank with a 1/2" glass baffle in the middle for the sump.
8. Eheim 1260 return pump
9. Deltec PF601 calcium reactor
10. ATI Bubblemaster 250 protein skimmer
11. Tunze Osmolator Top-off system, a 5gallon bucket, and the KENT Hi-S Maxxima Deluze RO/DI system
12. Extra 75g tub/aquarium for mixing fresh saltwater, a Mag7 pump for mixing, and an extra EBO 250watt heater.
13. 180-250 lbs of Marshall Island Live Rock.
14. Clean-Up crew: No hermits. 100x astrae snails, 40x nerite snails, 20x super tongan nassarius, 10x peppermint shrimp.
15. add fish and corals after a month or two of cycling.

Everything from that setup can be carried over to a larger tank except for maybe the tank and stand itself.

[buldog]

The best tank is a 300! It is 8 feet long, 2 feet wide and 30 inches high. It is very big, but not huge. If you get something smaller, you will always want a bigger tank. Go 300!

[Flobex]

i'd say, best... to replictae a natural reef would be very large front to back dimensions.. it makes a normal tank extrordinary.

check out www.oregonreef.com

[hahnmeister]

I/my parents had a 360g... its a planted tank. Its 8x2x3'h. I can tell you that when you go taller than 2' tall, reaching in becomes a PITA. We wish we would have went with a 8' long by 3' deep by 2' tall. Much easier to light as well. A 300g is nice, but its also means about 1-2 kw in power for the lights alone, so theres one extra electrical line that needs to be run. Also, you will have about 10g at least, per day, of evaporation. Thats alot for an A/C to deal with, and although the cost of running the tank may be no more than $100 a month, the extra power that the A/C uses may be an extra $200 a month. A dehumidifier will have its work cut out for it even, and so a better solution, and a reason why I dont suggest such large tanks the first time around, is to construct the tank so that all the evaporation is collected and vented out of the house. A fishroom with FRP walls, a seperate heating/cooling setup from the rest of the house, and an exterior entry door can save you a bundle on your energy bills, and the problems with having all that heat and humidity in the house. A 300g also means about 2 tons of weight after you add in the sump/ equipment, etc... not going to be on any floor but the basement unless you invenst in support beams to add on... even at that, it can still be quite an undertaking to prevent floor damage from long term stress. If you do set up in the basement, that means no 'basement sump' because you cant go any lower... so you need to run the sump in an adjacent room... once again... more planning ahead.

I think a 120-180 is the best idea for a large first reef. They are cheap enough (mass produced sizes after all), can be kept on a floor other than concrete w/o extra engineering. Their electrical can even be kept below 13 amps even when the lights are on so you dont have to worry about adding extra electrical lines. And they dont contribute gobs of heat and humidity to their surroundings. They can have their sump's housed right below the main tank easier, etc. See where Im going here?

People always say that larger tanks are more stable, and that is true.. problems that might kill a smaller tank arent able to spread as easily with a larger tank (like an anemone dying, or a coral spawn, or caulerpa going sexual), but the magnitude of the problem by the time a beginner might notice can be too large to deal with if the tank is too large. Its a tradeoff... stability for magnitude. Dosing 10 teaspoons of reefbuilder in an alkalinity emergency is alot easier than dosing 200 for a larger tank. Dont burn yourself out... it happens to alot of hobbyists because they cant control the urge to amass a large collection.... and then they burn themselves out in the process and quit the hobby.

[mflamb]

hahnmeister...that's great wisdom. Patience is definitely a virtue in this hobby.
Mike

[reefkoi]

I had a 180 for 12+ years before building my 600 reef that i currently have. I learned so much over that period of time, reading all the books (several $100 worth) and when I setup the 600 I ran into lots of issues still. Thought I knew it all, but all tanks are different. Had I not been through issues with the 180 and conquered them, I might have thrown in the towel on the 600.
A 600 is a big tank, easilly over $15,000 and that was me doing a ton of stuff myself. You really need a room or rooms for the equipment, and en electrician and a plumber to do it right IMO.
Whats wrong with picking up a 120 or 180 and experiment with things. I used to be die hard PC light user, now I love my halides, Imagine changing out several thousand dollars worth of lights? in a 120 that would be hundreds, not thousands.
Same with a skimmer, say you buy a euroreef for $2K and decide a $3K bubbleking would be better, in 120-180 gallon terms thats $200 vs $500 maybe and thats a lot easier to justify.

I dont care who you are or how rich you are nobody can honestly say "money is not an issue" It always is if you are smart.

Chris

BTW Patience is 99% of this hobby the other half is money

[elvictre]

IMO it is all up to the individual. I am setting up a 525 gallon tank as we speak 120x48x24. I was told by many that I should go 120x48x30 but in all honesty this thing is large and with the height of 24" I will be able to reach all areas of the tank. If I went 30" I am not too sure I would have been able to reach the middle of the tank without standing on it and I really would rather not do that. So it's a matter of preference. If someone don't like it too bad it what you like.

Good Luck

Vic

[sonofgaladriel]

Like you, I was looking for a tank size and shape that would give me the ability to aquascape it in such a way that I could achieve a true natural ocean feel and view. I looked at tons of dive pictures and diving reef videos and documentarys and the thing that always caught my eye was the 'depth' of field that brought out the true nature of the 'reef'. I noticed that in natural reefs, fish swim through/around, up/down, back/forth, but most importantly and most often, they swim ABOVE the corals and rockscape. Reefs aren't just long narrow brick walls of rock that fish swim back and forth in front of like a tennis ball bouncing back and forth.
If you want a truly 'natural' looking reef tank, get a large cube/cubish tank, or as some have already stated, a long but very wide tank like 96"x48"x24".
I've been told by many hobbyists both locally and here on RC that my tank, even though its rather small, is one of the most 'natural' looking in terms of what a 'reef' really looks like. By no means is it the 'best looking' or most 'mature' or 'most stunning', but the uniform dimensions, full 3 sided viewing, and the varied depth/height aquascaping, definately make it more appealing than a standard rectangular tank in which viewing it mostly from one static viewpoint along its front.
My tank is 48"x48"x24", 240 gallons. Big enough for a fair amount of livestock, but not too big in terms of equipment needs and maintenance.
Here's a video of my reef from a few months ago. I've since switched from SPS to an anemone/softy tank which I enjoy even more!
Of course, I'm a bit of a hypocrit in that I'm in the closing stages of finalizing plans for my upgrade to a 72"x72"x36" tank
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y90...funder20Ks.flv

[hahnmeister]

Ooooo, you said it right there... 96x48x24... thats one of my dream tanks... that and 96x96x30 or 72x72x24...which you also mentioned. I ended up helping a guy setup and design a 96x96x36 tank in Chi-town with a 6x6 skylight for light. I just love the look of it... viewable from all sides, with the overflow hidden in the center island that drains through the floor. I just love it.

But yeah, sonofgaladriel, you did it the smart way.. get something big, but not too big. Learn, find out what you really really want to do and what you like, then go from there. Thinking back, I remember what I considered my 'ultimate' reef tank. Now that Ive been in it for a while, that has changed 100%. It wouldnt even be the same tank, size, or equipment. When I started, I thought closed loops with huge pumps, huge beckett/downdraft skimmers, plenums, flow eductors, large sump return pumps, and halides were the way to go. Not so anymore. What can I say... I joined a bunch of German forums...lol.

[Angel*Fish]

Sonofgaladriel, I think your tank is quite stunning. Thanks for that video...

If I were to change your setup at all, I'd add 2 ft. on each side for some open sand area, but 99.9% of tanks lack that IMHO. Mine included. I love the way the BTA's are right in there next to the SPS and that you even allow them in the tank at all, for that matter.

I'd love to see video of it as it is now.