Last unsuccesful atempt to keep Tang

[MikeD]

Originally posted by guitarfish
I've never understood the "QT just adds to stress" line of reasoning. ...... Fact remains - no matter how stressed a fish is, it can't get ich if ich ain't in the tank.

I agree with the above statements... I had ich and now will QT all my fish. And stress or not, when the 'clean' fish is in a 'clean' tank. It just simply can't get ich. Ich doesn't spontaneously appear out of no where.

Also, so how would you go about adding LR or corals into your tank? Is there a short/safe method? Not everyone has as much 'good' lighting for their qt tanks as what's on their display tank.

Mike

[Dazz]

Intrudah, a freshwater dip is what you want to do, but you needed to do it before you ever put the fish in your tank.

Ich is a crustation and it only takes 2 weeks for a new generation of it to mature. Unfortunately, because you had introduced Ich into your tank, it will always be there, in the live sand. That is where the young mature and where the adults spawn. There is only one way for you to completely remove it from the rock and sand without killing all the other crustations on it. If you can live without having any fish in your tank for, I believe it is at least 6 months, then the Ich that is in the tank will not be able to sustain it's self and all the dorment eggs and adults will die (might want to check on the time from an expert).

Also, just because you cannot see ich on your fish, dosnt mean it is not there. When you see it on the outside, it is because the Ich is heavily populating the fish's gills.

I have read that if you do a freshwater bath of the fish for 3-4 min (not much longer or you can kill the fish), then all the Ich WILL die and fall off the fish.

Sorry for the bad news =/ and I hope your fish get better.

[guitarfish]

Dazz, you might want to read up on this. Try THIS LINK



Are freshwater dips effective?
Freshwater dips are generally ineffective in the treatment of marine "Ich" infestations. Trophonts burrow deeply into the epithelium where they are generally protected from external influences. Colorni (1985) found that even after 18 hours in freshwater, infected fish still have trophonts attached in the same positions as they had held before the freshwater treatment. The trophonts later detached and completed their life cycle as normal.

As far as ich in the main tank - 30 days with no fish in the main tank is more then ample for the ich to die off.

[digger328]

usually qt tanks are too small. therefore they are more susceptible to temperature variations. i find that a tank that rapidly gets too cold will stress the fish in that tank. is your qt tank large enough for a tang? if it is, is it heated properly? just some thoughts. yellow tangs are generally pretty hardy.

[Dazz]

Well looks like all the stuff I read about Ich on reef central has been wrong so far (and thats quite a bit of reading!). Thx for the heads up guitarfish. You can ignore my previous post pretty much =)

[guitarfish]

No problemo Dazz! The first step to beating ich is accurate info. I'm amazed how much misinformation there is, and unfortunately it just gets repeated.

[sw-addict]

Sounds like ich is a major problem in tangs! Does anyone know a good website on the subject? I read an article some time back that explained the life of ich begining to end and activity in between. It was the best thing that I ever read and can't find it anywhere it may have been in a book or magazine. Anyone?

[guitarfish]

The article is posted by me a few posts up as "THIS LINK".

[sw-addict]

yep that s the one that IO was looking for. Sorry I was not paying attention to the link before. Just out of curiosity what fish do you have guitarfish?

[intrudah]

Well the Tang I opened this forum for died, My girlfriend bought a Purple tang a month ago, I put in him straight in the main tank no QT, he had a lil ick on him for few days(no effects on any other livestock) but now he is perfect, My first sucessful tang

[guitarfish]

I have a yellow tang, a clarkii clown, a fridmani pseudochromis, and a good ole blue yellowtail damsel (had him a year, he's a pussycat).

[nitrofish]

im rather new to marine fish , and I have had great luck with tangs. I have one yellow tang and a blue hippo tang as my only fish. I had clowns, but I had some diffaculty keeping them ich free.

[guitarfish]

When ich is present, some fish get infected easier than others. From what I've read, the blue hippo tang is very susceptible. Of course, if we practice good QT methods and keep ich out of our tanks, we can enjoy these fish without the worry of ich.

[Rav-65]

The period to keep the main tank free of fishes to let the ich die off has to be at least 5-7 weeks, dat's the amt of time required for the entire ich cycle's life to be completed and when there's no fish to host, they die...

Vincent Ho

[guitarfish]

The minimum time required for ich to dieoff in a fallow (empty) tank is 30 days. That's MINIMUM, some recommend going longer. Just one more reason to QT and prevent it from getting in there in the first place.

[Stoli]

I've been lurking on this thread since it started. Just a couple of likely controversial thoughts. Just to provide my experience, I have had success with a PB Tang, Yellow Tang and Sailfin Tang, Purple Tang and Hippo Tang. I have never used a Q tank nor any 'remedy' for ich. I have lost one tang in what appears to be a very unusual carpet surfing event. All others are still alive and kicking.

First, Tangs appear to be highly sensitive to environment/territory. In a 90, I had a yellow, sailfin and PB tang. All did very well. In order to minimize skirmishes among the Tangs, I used three separate feeding clips for the first few weeks. By the 8th week, I only needed one clip and the three tended to school. Very cool to see a yellow, sailfin and PB schooling. Note that the Sailfin was the largest at about 4.5", the Yellow was second at about 4" and the PB was about 3.5".

Note that aside from standard drip acclimation procedures, the fish were introduced directly into the aquarium.

Second, I have consistently noticed that diet has a direct impact on Ich susceptability of tangs. You don't need to feed nori daily, but a least a couple/three times per week. When I go less than twice a week, I occasionally will notice a spot of ich. Feed nori for a couple of days, ich is gone.

Third, in the rare instance where the tang gets a slightly more advanced case of ich (ie. I did a major tank renovation that stressed the heck out of everything, caused by a leaky bulkhead), selcon has always done the trick. I soak Prime Reef or some other quality frozen food in the selcon for 10-15 minutes and then feed. I do this for two or three days and no more ich.

[racrumrine]

I QT my fish in hyposalinity for 4 to 6 weeks. I have two Cleaner Shrimp and Neon Goby.

After once having to throw all my fish in a QT tank for treatment, I would never want to go through that again. However, it was kind of neat to have a main tank without fish for several weeks.

If you don't believe in QT tanks, I hope you never have to find out the hard way.

Best of luck,

Roy

[guitarfish]

Stoli, your experience isn't all that uncommon. The healthier the fish, the better chance it has fighting off ich. The difference is between having an ich-free tank, where there's never a white spot, versus a tank where it appears regularly, (even if minimally as in your case). On the other hand, some people have had full blown ich breakouts and lost most or all of their fish. "Your mileage may vary."

[Carol Frechette]

What does garlic do for tangs? Ive heard of people saying they use it. So what kind and how would I use it?
90 gallon reef
96 lbs LR
1 Hawaiian Tang
1 Sailfin Tang
2 Clowns
1 Foxface
2 cleaner shrimp
1 Goby

[guitarfish]

You can use a product like Kent Garlic Xtreme, or you can get something like McCormick's Garlic Extract at your supermarket for a lot less. It's liquid, you can soak just about any food with it. Lots of people are big on garlic. I use it occasionally. The supposed benefit is that it will boost the immune system, and some swear by it to help combat ich. It won't eliminate ich, but it may help fish withstand it better.

[Maldivan]

this was an entertaining read . I agree w/ you 100% Guitarfish!
I started my saltwater tank in dec 03 and after the cycle I dumped in a pair of percula clowns followed by a yellow tang 2 weeks later. All went in my 55 gal display w/o a QT.Withen a week the Yellow Tang was ICH infested ( Although I didnt know what it was at that time) and he died fairly quickly,soon the clowns started suffering from the same symptoms.I searched the net and WWM.com and found out what it was. The clowns evaded capture and hid behind my 70lbs of live rock, after a few days they passed on as well. Stubborn as I am and still not fuly understanding the ICH Cycle i bought ANOTHER Yellow tang and promptly put him in my Display w/o QT. AGAIN withen a week the lil guy displayed ICH....see the pattern? This time i dismantled the LR and got him out.He was in a 10 gal QT this time, yet all my efforts to keep him alive failed and he too died. Well at this point id spent enough money on Livestock to buy a decent set-up ...I was po'd. I did as Steve Pro suggested :
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-1...ture/index.htm
and I allowed my display to remain fallow for 8 weeks. During this time i bought a pair of Ocellaris clowns and introduced them to thier new 10 gal home for the next 4 weeks. They had no probs at all.I fed them w/ garlic extreme soaked flake and they loved it.After the 8 weeks had passed they went to the display and have been there a month now thriving.I have a tiny Blue Hippo tang incoming and he will go in the QT for 4 weeks also...ill be damned if i let ICH in the display again after all Ive been through. I hope anyone that reads this will ralize the importance of a QT tank. Im sure theres poeple that are always getting lucky and havent had to deal w/anything like i had to, but im guessing they are the exception........ NOT the rule.


Andy

[guitarfish]

Maldivan, I'm with you! QT is the way to go. By the way...

To Reef Central

[mnewby@hctc.com]

hello have had great sucess raing tangs a little secret I've learned about dealing with ich is that elivating the clorine level in the aquarium will whip the ich out the nice thing is it dont half to be elivated for by much to do it second thing its harmles to invertabrates use just cloren bleach put in the tank with a eye droper be sure only use like two drops per 50 gallons about once a day for 3 to 5 days as it will disapate from the water over a period of time the other nice fact is clorine bleach is made from striping it out of seawater so its a natural element

[guitarfish]

Dude, you seriously need spell check. Chlorine bleach? Ain't heard that one before. Don't think I'll be trying it in my tank soon.

[Stoli]

Guitar:

Excellent points regarding a Q-Tank. It's not that I'm against the idea, it's just that for most people, such a tank is not practical. I add a new fish to the tank perhaps once per year or two. (Despite my three tangs, I like keeping fish stocking levels low). Setting up a good Q-Tank for such a rare event fits neither the budget nor my space availability.

I certainly understand the risk associated with direct introduction but I also suspect that despite the life cycle issues noted here and elsewhere, you cannot entirely prevent ich in a tank.

By way of example, just because you don't see ich, it doesn't mean a fish is not infected. You go to your LFS and buy a gorgeous new perc. Put it in your q-tank for six weeks. How do you know it's not infected and just not showing signs? If it is, and you put it in your main tank, you've just defeated the Q-Tank, at least as far as ich goes.

Then again, if I had the time, money and space, I'd have one. So, I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite.