Bad luck with sixlines, need suggestion for alternative in 30g

Dudester · #1 07/16/2006, 02:37 PM

My 30g reef is 10 months old now, and I've had a true perc for about 8 of those months that remains very healthy. Currently there are no other fish in the tank. The tank has flatworms (the gray ones) and I need a FW killer to keep them under control since they seem to be resistant to Flatworm eXit. Unfortunately my 3rd sixline wrasse has died. They all last anywhere from 6-8 weeks before dying, and they have all died when I leave for vacation. Weird, I know, and I can't seem to explain why it happens, but that's not the topic of this thread anyway.

I love the sixline wrasse and they've always done a good job at keeping the FW's in check, but I'm reluctant to get another one since I seem to have bad luck with this fish. Is there an alternative in the wrasse family that eats flatworms and would do well in an open-top 30g mixed reef tank?

jmaneyapanda · #2 07/16/2006, 03:10 PM

I have heard that mandarins and leopard wrasses will take care of them, but both are tougher to keep alive than sixlines.

Dudester · #3 07/16/2006, 03:47 PM

Thanks, jmaneyapanda, for your response. I don't think there would be enough pods to keep a mandarin happy in my tank, and I don't think they eat flatworms either. The leopard wrasse is a beautiful fish, but they require a larger tank than my 30g. But keep the suggestions coming, if you wish!

jmaneyapanda · #4 07/16/2006, 03:56 PM

You can always look for some flatworm eating nudis!

I was sure I read somewhere that mandarins will predate in flatworms, now I'll have to look it up when I get home.

fnicklaus · #5 07/16/2006, 04:04 PM

Young coris wrasse are good at this,however,they get large also. So unless you have a larger aquarium to move him in later, I would not get a coris.Have you tried arrow crabs? Be careful as they will prey on other inverts too.

Dudester · #6 07/16/2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaneyapanda
I was sure I read somewhere that mandarins will predate in flatworms, now I'll have to look it up when I get home.

Please do, and let me know what you find

.

fnicklaus - Alas, I'm stuck with this little 30g for quite some time. For some reason beyond me, house furniture currently is higher on the budgetary scale than my dream monster aquarium, so there will be nowhere to transfer a coris wrasse (also a beautiful fish). I don't really want an invert predator, so I'm afraid I'll have to decline on your suggestion for the arrow crab.

Any other ideas?

Dudester · #7 07/18/2006, 09:21 AM

Are there any more ideas out there from all of you creative tank stockers? Most of the other fish I've considered are notorious jumpers, and covering my tank is not an option due to heat issues. I really need a new fish - my true perc is getting lonlier by the day.

jmaneyapanda · #8 07/18/2006, 05:19 PM

In Delbeek and Sprung (VOL 1 or 2, I dont remeber, it says mandarins have OCCASIONALLY been known to eat flatworms). Here's my story, I had some flatworms introduced, but dealt with most of them with a freshwater dip. However, Im sure I didn't get them all, as I noticed them on some mushrooms I had added weeks earlier. I do have a mandarin, and I have never seen flatworms since. Coincidence? Most likely.

Bdimas · #9 07/19/2006, 12:05 AM

My wife added a possume wrasse to her 12 gallon nano and it ate all the flatworms.

ejaustin · #10 07/19/2006, 06:37 AM

I don't have any experience with this. but on this page on WWM Fenner suggests a Scooter Blenny (Neosynchiropus ocellatus) as potentially helpful. Don't know how well a blenny might get along with your corals, though. I've read that sometimes blennies perch on corals and irritate them. (My tank is FOWLR, more or less.)

Maybe someone else with some experience with scooter blennies will chime in.

ej

techigirl78 · #11 07/19/2006, 08:41 AM

Did you get all 3 sixlines from the same place? Maybe an issue with the supplier?

Scotter blenny is a dragonet, just like a mandarin. Must be treated the same, as they have same diets.

Maybe a yellow "coris" wrasse? Isn't a real coris wrasse, but a halechores wrasse: http://www.marinedepotlive.com/golde...--wrasses.html

I have a halechores melanarus and just covered the tank with egg crate. Also, all wrasses, including six lines, are jumpers.

technoshaman · #12 07/19/2006, 10:36 AM

Maybe try a juvenile yellow coris wrasse (actually a Haliocheres sp. ). Wrasses are hit or miss though on whether they get a taste for them. Also 6 lines are very hardy in my experience - you might want to figure out why those are perishing before adding any more wrasses lest they suffer the same fate.

Dudester · #13 07/19/2006, 11:07 AM

Wow, look at the Austin, TX contingency chiming in (ejaustin and technoshaman)!

jmaneyapanda - Thanks for the reference! That's good information to know, even though my tank is way too small for a mandarin.

Bdimas - Thanks for the suggestion. I checked out the possum wrasse, and their mouth looks like it was made for eating flatworms! I'll keep this one in mind, although I've never seen them in either of the LFS's that I visit. I could always order online, though.

ejaustin - Hey, I've read your posts on the Austin Reef Club forums. Thanks for the great link. According to Fenner, the flatworms that I have are quite common and not dangerous to my tank inhabitants (wish I knew that before I spent a thousand dollars on Flatworm eXit!). Nevertheless, I'd still like to get rid of them. Interestingly, Fenner says that the population waxes and wanes spontaneously, and I've found this to be true, especially now that I have no flatworm predators in my tank and the population is NOT increasing.

techigirl78 - All 3 sixlines were purchased from the same LFS. I'd like to blame them, but wouldn't it be unusual for the fish to live 6-8 weeks in my tank before dying? The other thing that's strange is that they all died while I was out of town -- perhaps my house sitter has a vendetta with sixline wrasses??
I've considered a coris wrasse, but from what I understand, they jump much more frequently than sixlines. I think that they're less gregarious as well, but I'd be willing to give one a try. Egg crate on top is a good, albeit not foolproof idea. Certainly beats completely open top though!

technoshaman - I agree with the "hit or miss" comment. The first sixline in my tank had absolutely no appetite for flatworms, although the other 2 ate them for sure. I'm really not sure why they died, I can only say that my true perc has remained healthy despite their deaths.

Thanks for the great input everybody, keep'em coming if other fish come to mind.

techigirl78 · #14 07/19/2006, 12:26 PM

Try a different store next time and use a quarantine tank. Do you find the fish dead? Is the clownfish in an anemone?

Dudester · #15 07/19/2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by techigirl78
Try a different store next time and use a quarantine tank. Do you find the fish dead? Is the clownfish in an anemone?

I've quarantined 2 of the 3 wrasses for 4 weeks prior to placing them in my tank.

The first corpse was never found, but I'm certain it didn't carpet surf, since I have no carpet around the tank

. I guess it's possible that it could have jumped out and the cat could have eaten it, but our cat isn't really fond of anything other than his food so this is extremely unlikely. More probable is that the clean-up crew got to it and dessimated it quite rapidly (I observed this on a Rainford's goby that I was unable to get out of the tank - not pretty for sure

)

The 2nd and 3rd SLW's that died were both found dead and removed by the house sitter.

The clownfish hosts in a frogspawn, as I do not yet have an anemone. I wanted to wait a full year before trying one out. Even if I add one at this point, I'm not sure the clownfish would leave her frogspawn, as she rarely ventures far from it.

Truth be told, I've not had good luck with fish

. I almost always quarantine and I've moved quite slowly. I first added a pair of perculas, and one of them died about a week later. The other is the only remaining fish in my tank currently. I'm not proud of this next statement, but in the past 8 months my list of mortalities includes: highfin shrimp goby, another true perc, 3 sixline wrasses, a Rainford's goby, and a lawnmower blenny. This has been my greatest source of disappointment in this hobby thus far, as I hate to have something die while under my care (my bio doesn't mention it, but I'm a physician). In contrast, my corals (softies, LPS and SPS) and other invertebrates have done quite well.

I think I will purchase my next fish at a different LFS. Hopefully it will make a difference.

technoshaman · #16 07/19/2006, 01:39 PM

Which store in town are you buying them from? Sounds like you are doing things right with quarantine etc - I wouldn't personally add a rainfordi to a tank that size unless it was very very mature and had no competition.

Dudester · #17 07/19/2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by technoshaman
Which store in town are you buying them from? Sounds like you are doing things right with quarantine etc - I wouldn't personally add a rainfordi to a tank that size unless it was very very mature and had no competition.

According to Michael's fish book, 30g was the minimum size for a Rainford's goby, and I selected this fish to eat the filamentous algae that was growing unchecked in my tank (i.e. no competition). Regarding the name of the LFS, I'll send you a pm.

techigirl78 · #18 07/19/2006, 03:48 PM

I'd try another store definetly. Also, look in your tank at night. I assume all the fish died after being moved to the main. Is this correct? If yes, you may have something killing them.

Hang in there. We all have had problems in the beginning and many of us continue to have issues. It will get better.

BTW, is your housesitter really ugly. May have scared the fish to death.

Dudester · #19 07/19/2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Also, look in your tank at night. I assume all the fish died after being moved to the main. Is this correct? If yes, you may have something killing them.

Thanks for your words of encouragement. All of the fish died in the main, and I routinely look in the tank at night. Of course the sixlines cocooned in their private rock holes every night, and the clownfish nestles in between the branches of the frogspawn. I actually suspected my emerald crab, but I think he's been vindicated. According to the sitter, on one occasion, she fed the tank and saw the sixline eat hardily. She did a few things around the house and when she returned to the tank, the fish was dead. This sounds very suspect to me, and I know the food is not contaminated because I continue to feed this same batch of frozen ingredients that I personally prepared to my current clownfish. It's very frustrating, to say the least, but I'm not giving up. I do feel a little guilty about continuing to buy fish and place them in my tank, especially since any new fish that I buy can expect an 89% mortality rate

!

Regarding the appearance of my house sitter -- let's just say she has a great personality

.

Rothie · #20 07/19/2006, 07:06 PM

Is the house sitter spaying anything around the house,or using Windex to clean the tank?

techigirl78 · #21 07/20/2006, 08:28 AM

I was thinking the same thing, maybe a chemical issue. Does she put her hands in the tank?

Dudester · #22 07/20/2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rothie
Is the house sitter spaying anything around the house,or using Windex to clean the tank?

Great point, I should have mentioned that earlier. She does not do any cleaning in the house that I'm aware of (except for the cat's messes), and the only time her hand contacts the tank water is when she rinses the dosing cup after adding B-Ionic. Do you think something might have rinsed off of her hand, dissolved into the 45 gallons of system water (including the sump), and still had enough potency to kill the fish? I'll definitely give her a call to see if she did any spraying at all. I'll also be sure to tell her to wash her hands well before feeding or dosing the tank.

Great help, everybody!

Rothie · #23 07/20/2006, 10:15 AM

I would ask her to wash her hands before and not put them in the tank at all.Hand cream,nail polish,and perfume come to mind.I am still wondering about air freshener or something like Fabreeze or Lysol.Also,put the daily dose of food in seperate containers(vitamin boxes with individual lids for each day of the week work well).This way her hands never have to touch the food-she just dumps it in.

Dudester · #24 07/20/2006, 11:02 AM

All good points. I place all food portions in labeled containers in the freezer. Her instructions are to place the frozen food into a designated plastic cup and add some tank water with a turkey baster. She then allows this to thaw, then pours it into the tank after hitting the "feed mode" button on my controller. Her hands should not contact the water during this procedure. I did ask her to rinse the B-Ionic cup in the tank water between adding the first and second parts, however.

Dudester · #25 07/21/2006, 02:07 PM

I spoke with the sitter today. As expected, she didn't do any cleaning while at the house. She reported to have washed her hands prior to handling anything tank-related, including the food, and her hand rarely if ever contacted the water. She brought up an interesting question that I doubt will provide THE answer but it's worth mentioning, nonetheless ...

Currently my frozen food is a mixture that a friend and I prepared. This was blended and poured into ziploc freezer bags. During feedings, I typically break off a small piece, thaw it in tank water, and pour it in to the tank. When I go away, I break off chunks of the frozen food and wrap it in aluminum foil, not really a container, which I label for daily feeding portions.

Is it possible that there's something in the aluminum foil that is toxic to the sixline wrasse??? I would doubt it, as foil is quite inert, but is this possible? To avoid this in the future, I'll get a plastic pill box - this is easier anyway.