O.K. I am tired of this.....

[dots]

I try to research stuff before I ask, and hate too. I figure the SPS forum is about as close to "expert" as you can get in the hobby and don't like to burden the forum with questions like this, ( I figure if you comment here you know what you are doing),.......but am getting frustrated and would like some advice as hard as it is to ask......... please offer some suggestions to what I may be overlooking. Thank you in advance!!!

I have been having problems with tips of my SPS, no not all of them, being very brittle and "reverse RTNing" from the tips down.

Now we have the usual, no params out of the ordinary and am leaning on the lower side of Alk and Ca. I thought it could be Mg, while it was a little low....I boosted it and hasn't helped.

I am beginning to thinking it is some kind of contamination, either salt, water, or supplement....but don't want to lead anyone because of course we only know what the person describes, so I am looking for what I am missing.

I use IO ReefCrystals, was sugar dosing but thought that was jacking with my Ph and causing this. I stopped dosing and it is still happening.......

Thought it was a GFO overdose.....quit that and still happening, though not as much.......

did a 60g/80g WC, reoccured after water changes........slowed though.

So, has anyone experienced problems with B-ionic batches or IO reefcrystals recently?

I thought this was a good thing at first, with super accelerated skeletal growth, with the tissue not keeping up......but what the????

Who has had problems with receeding tips, and what did you find was the problem?

I have checked for pests and have great PE execpt for a couple....so I do not suspect AEFW's or RB's.......I have checked for dropped razor blades and other rust sources......my water source is consistent and has not changed.

Though I am in super slow SRTN in a couple of pieces, I feel overall I am in decline and old tank syndrome is not an option, it is only 2 years old with a SSB in a BB tank.

Bulbs are 6-8 months old and RC are regular.

W.T.F.??????

[pepeinthenavy]

What about water flow. Make sure you have indirect flow.

[melev]

It could be fish nipping.

It could be asterinas.

It could be something along the lines of dinoflagellates if the tips are brown before they die.

[dots]

Yes, the tips are brown, however the are white for a few days....I thought the dinos were colonizing on the bare surface and had not thought of them being the cause.

Flow is crazy........look at signature......one maybe....but four or five pieces.........I am missing the bigger picture somewhere.......

1 mag 7 for the return, 2 Seio 1500's, and 3 820's.

Refresh my basics, melev, what would I be doing to cause the dinos......let me guess overfeeding......I swung from starving them to too much didn't I? I went from just dosing DTs and PE mysid everyother day to a combination of DTs, Phytofeast, Rotifers, Artic pods and some SF bay mysid and cyclopeeze every other day......colors are great and growth is sweet......only a couple are doing this to me.

This is the reason why I don't think LPS/Softies and SPS should be mixed.....I am under the impression, that even some SPS require slightly different conditions, and "one size fits all" may not be. (but lets not side track this please, I am REALLY getting concerned about this and I really like the pieces that seem effected, namely Becker Tort, Cali Tort, Steve Elias, wild A. Nana(lost), wild A. Gomezi (lost) lost of Pink Lemonade PE....I used to have the sweet primary and secondary polyps on this on.....grrrrrr)

So yeah.......I am gettting a little concerned and have too much time and effort invested to watch it deteriorate.......I have seen others with this in the past.....murphyreef, I remember asking you about it......thoughts?

[DaddyJax]

What are you using for Cal and Alk? I have noticed some very similar occurances with my spswhen my Alk is down and then up and flow is strong on the corals. It usually starts with a build up of Dinos on the tip and then tissue loss. You said that your Alk and cal was a little on the low side right. How low and how old is your test kits and what kind are they?

[tanya72806]

Listen what are you using to TEST you Alk ??? I just received my Lamottes and it read 7.6 my salifert reads 9.2 huge diffrence there.

[SDguy]

I too have heard that burnt tips is a classic sign of high alk. Check your alk test kit.

[dots]

Salifert for all tests and test about every three days or more. I am using a Sentry dosing pump with B-ionic.

A while back I had some alk creep and backed it off to 8dkh, since then its been holding pretty steady.

I got two new gals of B-ionic.......and will replace those today, the current ones seem "off".

The alk is probably a little too low and will bring it back up again to see if it corrects it.

I may have over compensated when I had that alk creep and swung it too far the other way, which as embarassing as it is, could have been my problem all along.

[dots]

Originally posted by SDguy
I too have heard that burnt tips is a classic sign of high alk. Check your alk test kit.

Not only burnt/receeding......but the new growth is porous and very brittle, the structure is very weak.

I did buy a new test kit recently, because I was wondering if the other was off. I am very familliar with this test as well, so I hope I can rule out the loose nut behind the vial.

This has such tell-tale signs, I am sure others have had it before.......or am I just "special"?

[dots]

I have stumbled onto a thread stating problems with alk reagent batches. I think I will try an Elos kit to verify my data.

[melev]

....or am I just special?

No, you aren't. I've been dealing with it myself. A few months ago, I did what you said and "went back to the basics". I took off both my carbon (phosban) reactor and my PhosAr reactor, did weekly 55g water changes. I also ran Chemi-clean in my system to remove cyano issues during that time.

All of a sudden all my corals turned around again. After 6 weeks, I finally started running fresh carbon again, and watched my water parms. When Magnesium dropped, a couple of brown tips appeared on one coral so I raised it up again. (Aiming for 1300 or above)

After a few more weeks, phophates began to rise, so I decided I better use some PO4 remover. This time I only used 50% of what I needed. The corals continued to look good, but PO4 rose again. So I dosed with Phosbuster Pro, which dropped PO4 back to 0 again. (I really do like that stuff)

[znut Reefer]

Also make sure none of your fish are nipping. I have a foxface thats been in my tank with sps for 4 yrs. And in the past 2 months he has started nipping the tips on my acros.

I have a trap in there now. Been trying to catch that rascal for a couple weeks now.

[tanya72806]

heres the thing I just gotten my lamottes alk test kit and it read 7.6 my salifert read 9.9

[the_anti_honda]

Originally posted by melev
....or am I just special?

No, you aren't.

Don't tell him that!



Your still special LOL!



Sorry I had to.

[dots]

I was using the "special" as in Special Education. Gee, thanks I feel much better now........you guys are so supportive!! LOL

melev, it sounds like we are on the same program........

[prop-frags]

Dots,
from reading your descriptions, it looks as though stability may be contributing to your issues. I may be off here, but if your params are fluctuating, and you are making adjustments to many aspects of your husbandry, and thus creating more instability...

I realize it is hard to go SLOW and minimize the changes, but attempting to fix several things at once can have two negative impacts; 1) you continue to have instability in parameters, and 2) you cannot clearly correlate a change you make to a result or consequence.

You mention not all corals are showing ill-effects. Which corals are having problems? Which corals are not? Is there any symptom (or lack) that you see across all of your corals? Have you taken a water sample to a LFS and gotten params tested? As was said, calibration of test kits is an important step when things get out of whack.

[jmaneyapanda]

In my experience, it is not so much low alk, but adjustment in alk, especially with the relationship to magnesium. I had "low" magnesium, that I was dosing to correct. It sent my alk on a roller coaster ride, and boom- burnt tips. I stopped dosing magnessium, turned off all calcium and alkalinity controls, and let it ride for 10 days, and then restarted the calcium reactor. Recovery ensued.

[dots]

Since there are only a couple of pieces reacting, and I have eliminated all other sources of contamination, it appears that the likely conclusion is the shift from high to low end of the scale is causing this.

Most of us know that some SPS like higher and others lower Alk in the "acceptable" range from 7-11dkh. I believe these pieces that are showing stress are the result from not liking too low alk.

Because biological processes are not static values, and less than precise resolutions of automating the supplementation of these values, eventually we get a creep in either direction. I test my params often, however while busy graduating from college, I set the tank on autopilot. The alk creep, (12.6dkh for a short period), resulting from this has sent me on a roller coaster of sorts and since have rulled everything else out, agree.

Because my params have always been in "acceptable range", I have been systematicly eliminating other possibilities. Its has been difficult to recognize and accept that just going from high to low once over the course of a few days and then holding that lower level could cause this long term effect, but stress is stress and has long lasting effects.

As with you jmaneyapanda, I had been dosing to correct a low Mg level, I thought this was the cause of my problems a month ago.

Since I bought an Elos test kit today to confirm my Salifert the values are:

Alk: 8dkh Elos 7.8 Salifert
Ca: 400 ppm
Mg: 1335ppm

Though all are on the low side, they are in balance which confirms its not an out of balance problem. To remove the possibility of an untested element contamination in the B-ionic I have replaced the 2 parts.

I have never ran my tank this low for this long and believe that once I return in the the 9.6-10dkh I usually run, and LEAVE EVERYTHING ALONE, it should recover.

But I am sure you guys can agree, when it looks like STN starting, you start finding the cause of it before it turns into RTN......which is why sitting around and watching makes me nervous. Considering though, I have eliminated all other sources or causes, I feel much more confident in riding this out to see what happens as is.

Thanks.

[Marko9]

Doug- Sorry to read this thread. I just got back from our trip down south to RAP.

I agree this is partly brought on by the fluctuations with your total conditions. Graduation was definitely neccasary, but what does SPS truly mean? Yeah buddy- Stability Promotes Success. You have been in a battle ever since you let your husbandry slide a little.
If I remember, regular phyto dosings created an extra rich nutrient environment only to be expoted by skimming and BB. Your coral were under shock. Frist no love; then too much love.
Since then you have tried evrything in the book to get things back in order, only causing more stress.
I know you will get this under control, but just remember that our reefs are progess rather than perfection and it is not a race. I am sure we will talk soon.

BTW, How is the purple unknown looking for you? Or should I ask.

[mysterybox]

had the same problem:
1) I only buy Aquacultured frags
2) I have random flow now
3) I bought a doser for my 2-part to have solid A/lk 24-7
4) I bought Salifert Nitrate test kit & Rowa (deltec) phosphate kit
5) I used AZ-NO3 to eliminate trates
6) I added more Caulpera/Chaeto & live rock
NO MORE DYING TIPS

I am guessing that it was High trates & phosphates, poor random flow, Alk swings, & unforgiving corals (wild).

[dots]

Originally posted by Marko9


BTW, How is the purple unknown looking for you? Or should I ask.

The Tyree Unknown is fine as well as the Palleta Blue, in fact both are coloring up.......again mixed signals. However, my Pink Lemonade does not have the PE it once had and the Becker Tort is showing the worst of the bunch, but the Ponape Torch isn't far behind. Other these a couple of pieces, everything looks good.

Things havn't added up with this problem which is the main reason for the thread........I have great PE and coloration, just this nagging problem that I don't want to get out of hand and loose any LE's to neglegence.

[tfp]

doug, it can be so frustrating at times...chasing the swinging numbers! hang in there but do your best to stabilize your water params. one more variable to checkoff, what is your TDS measuring on makeup water?

and don't stress out too much if you lose the ones you got from me, i got you covered .

[orangekush4]

I had the same problem and it was part 1 of b ionic which is the ALK part.
You have to add that part very slow.I was doing that for years with no problem.The time i had tip burn and revers RTN was when my brother looked after my tank when i was out of town for a week.I told him to add both parts very slow with flow.He wasn't doing that and when i got back, my two Acros that were in the way of the flow got burned.He was adding it fast with high flow and it just cut the tips of the two acros.

[Serioussnaps]

Source water? C dosing?(i hope it has nothing to do with the sugar because I have been doing the same)