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  #1  
Old 01/07/2008, 11:04 PM
erikages erikages is offline
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ZEObak - 4 drops have raised my redox 50 points and still counting

Hey folks. Here's a discovery I've just made. You may already know about this, but I certainly didn't. I'm curious to know whether other people have experienced this.

Preamble: A few months ago I started monitoring redox in my tank (oxygen reduction potential). There's lots written about this, and it can be very technical, but basically the probe provides a number that gives a quick snapshot of the water quality of your tank. "Healthy tanks" have redox numbers of 300 to 450. When I started monitoring, my tank was sitting around 250. So I bought an ozonator to bring this number up. I've been running ozone for the past few weeks to raise my redox and clear water. For a while, I ran it full blast (50mg per hour) to bring it up to 325...it ran constantly to keep it at that level, and high levels of ozone (not too high, as it will harm your tank's fish, etc.) limit how effective skimming can be. In fact, at high levels I didn't skim much at all.

So I gave up and brought the ozone down to 5mg per hour. Skimming is now wonderful. Based on Delbeek and Sprung's writings, a small amount of ozone actually helps skimming by making larger org. molecules respond to skimming.

I resigned myself to a redox level of around 300.

In the meantime -- and not connected at all for me -- I read about "ZEObak," a drop solution you add every other day to your tank. "1 drop per 25 gallons twice a week." The product claims to provide "several bactieral strains that form a chain to reduce unwanted substances" and also says that corals can use the resulting bacterial balance as a food source.

Anyway, I ordered a bottel and it arrived today and I put 4 drops in my tank. Later -- a few hours later -- I noticed that my redox had started climbing dramatically. After a week or so at 300, with occassional dips to 250, it's at 350 and still climbing. It's never been that high -- even with full ozone.

I can't explain it otherwise. It's these bloody drops!

I'll monitor this change and keep you posted, but I'm amazed. Have others experienced this kind of thing? Is it safe?

Note: I'm not selling a thing; I don't know much about the product, have never used it, and don't give a damn who owns it. It comes from Germany and is available on line from our LFStores. This German company also carries other supplements, which I've also purchased, but this ZEObak stuff seems to be effective, to say the least.



Erik
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  #2  
Old 01/07/2008, 11:21 PM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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Can you say "permanganates" ?

Be careful with this stuff, my friend.
  #3  
Old 01/07/2008, 11:30 PM
erikages erikages is offline
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Yipes! Never heard of it, but if ZEObak has this stuff in it, no wonder you only need 1 drop per 25 gallons. But this seems to be a chemical compound rather than "biological." ZEObak literature suggests that it's made up of bio. materials.

Here's a blurb:

The essential microorganism solution for a healthy, well-balanced and efficient bacterial fauna in a tank.

ZEObak contains several bacterial strains, and is best used in combination with ZEOfood and ZEOstart while building up bacteria plankton that is absorbed by many corals.

Contains several bacterial strains that form a chain to reduce unwanted substances improving water quality and clarity.
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  #4  
Old 01/07/2008, 11:31 PM
erikages erikages is offline
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BTW, redox now 365 and counting...
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  #5  
Old 01/07/2008, 11:41 PM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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I'm not an expert in this field by no means. This is just a guess on my part.

Jonathan or Randy can better speak on this , so hold off till the am to get another opinion.

There is certainly something in this stuff causing your ORP to rise as rapidly as it is. That was just my first thought.

Again, lets give it 12 hrs to get a couple of expert opinions.
  #6  
Old 01/07/2008, 11:44 PM
erikages erikages is offline
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Many thanks - much appreciated. Also, thanks for being a member of Team RC.
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  #7  
Old 01/07/2008, 11:46 PM
Billybeau1 Billybeau1 is offline
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  #8  
Old 01/08/2008, 01:13 AM
bertoni bertoni is offline
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I would not say that a higher ORP means higher quality water. ORP can be raised by dosing bleach, for example. This article covers ORP:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

There are examples of perfectly healthy tanks with ORP below 300.

As for why this product is raising ORP, that's very difficult to say without knowing what's in it. The best case might be that it is help to remove organic compounds from the water column by feeding bacteria that are then skimmed out of the water. That process might be useful for some corals. The product might have an oxidizing agent, as well, though.
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Last edited by bertoni; 01/08/2008 at 04:00 AM.
  #9  
Old 01/08/2008, 01:38 AM
jdieck jdieck is offline
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or may create a bacterial film on the probe's electrode .......
Clean the probe and see if the high ORP is still there.
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  #10  
Old 01/08/2008, 04:00 AM
bertoni bertoni is offline
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Most bacterial coats would tend to lower the ORP, I think, by consuming oxygen.
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  #11  
Old 01/08/2008, 07:47 PM
reef_doug reef_doug is offline
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I don't want to start a ZEO bashing thread.

If you are using ZEObak with Ozone, you are wasting it. The ozone will kill the benefical bacteria that you are paying for. It's also best to use it with the other basic 4 ingredients to get the most out of the system.

If you just want to add bacteria, you might want to look at Prodibio.

I run full ZEO tank and my ORP is 340-370. The biggest increase in ORP was when I went from an ASM G3 skimmer up to a BM 250. It raised 50 points overnight.

I wouldn't get to hung up on ORP, it's not a precise measurement. The benefit of ORP is looking for trends.

BTW... if I wasn't using ZEO, then I would use ozone through the skimmer.
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  #12  
Old 01/09/2008, 12:32 AM
sditch sditch is offline
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I agree with jdieck about cleaning your probe. Is your skimmer pulling the same amount of gunk as before you started using this product? This may be helpfull to see if there is an increase export.

Also how long did it take for the ORP to rise when you started to use this product. If it worked fast(under 5-10 hours) then that probley means a oxidizing agent of some sort my be present, if it took longer then it my be more bio whitch I would think would be good

Cool findings for sure.....
  #13  
Old 01/09/2008, 01:05 AM
erikages erikages is offline
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It was a 5 - 10 hour climb, certainly. So yes, I suspect some kind of oxidizing process. All other tank levels (ph, salinity, temp, etc.) are stable.

E
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  #14  
Old 01/09/2008, 01:46 AM
bertoni bertoni is offline
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Well, personally, I wouldn't dose any oxidizers into my system, although I don't have any idea what's in that product.
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  #15  
Old 01/09/2008, 02:35 AM
einsteins einsteins is offline
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Ozone + ZEObaks = Dead ZEObaks.

Ozone should not be used with this product or prodibio or any bacteria driven low nutrient methodology.

eins
  #16  
Old 01/09/2008, 08:00 AM
Randy Holmes-Farley Randy Holmes-Farley is offline
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FWIW, I too do not think that ORP is a useful indicator of anything useful about the tank if chemicals are being added that artificially raise or lower it. Without knowing what exactly is in what you are adding, it is impossible to say whether it is good, bad, or otherwise.
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