Beta glucan

[impur]

I've been looking for this to aid in my fishs diet. I've found it in pill form, similar to how multivitamins come. Would this work if i crush it up and dissolve in water? Is this soluble in water? Or do they make a gel pill form?

[impur]

Bump. Anyone?

[webbstock]

Why would you want to add this? B-glucan is a polysaccharide from fungal cell wall. It has been implicated in inflammation (1: J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2007 Jul;70(13):1116-24). Quote from article- "Evidence indicates that 1-->3-beta-glucan is the major inflammatory component in yeast and fungal cell walls"

Since it is not a required nutrient, I believe that it would be safer to leave it out.

[kevin2000]

Terry Bartelme seems to be the prime promoter of Beta Glucan .. I am unsure but I don't think this has really caught on or been around long enough to have a significant track record.

With that said .. I don't see any reason that crushing a pill would not work. I assume the appropriate application is to soak food in it but I really don't know.

[impur]

Thanks kevin, kinda what i was thinking but always best to do a little research before diving in

webbstock - yes it is from yeast. It has been used for everything from cancer treatment to inflammation. From betaglucan.org:

Beta glucan is a scientifically proven biological defense modifier (BDM) that nutritionally potentiates and modulates the immune response. As a supplement, after swallowing orally, Beta glucan is ingested primarily through macrophage and dendritic immune cells, to nutritionally and safely yield, through immune response potentiation and modulation, in many instances various therapeutic healing effects generated by the immune cells. For many years Glucans have been investigated (History) for these immune enhancing properties, particularly their ability to activate macrophage immune cells and NK-Cells, plus in turn, the T-Cells, and B-Cells including selected cytokines and complement.

Poly-branched B-1,3-(D)-Glucans are naturally occurring polysaccharides, with or without B-1,6-(D)-glucose side chains, that are integral cell wall constituents in a variety of bacteria, plants and fungi. Glucan receptors to deliver non-self derived glucan to the immune response have been identified on macrophages, dendritic cells and other cells. The Beta-1,3-(D)-glucan with Beta- 1,6-glucan linkage extracted from yeast cell wall (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) has been shown to act as a potent non-specific immune-activator.

Also: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...03/feature.htm

Since Beta Glucan is scientifically proven to enhance immune response and is obviously safe (even recommended) for human consumption, why would it not be safe for my fish to help enhance thier immune systems? People toss in garlic and ginger, but there is no scientifically proven benefits thus far to these methods.

[webbstock]

Since Beta Glucan is scientifically proven to enhance immune response and is obviously safe (even recommended) for human consumption, why would it not be safe for my fish to help enhance their immune systems? People toss in garlic and ginger, but there is no scientifically proven benefits thus far to these methods.

The problem is that Beta-glucans do not enhance the immune system, instead it stimulates the immune system. In layman' terms that means that the immune system is always "on". While this can be helpful for short term, it is detrimental in the long run.

Some of your most troublesome human diseases are those that are auto-immune diseases (i.e. over-active immune system) for example Lupus, Multiple sclerosis, Myasthenia Gravis, Guillain-Barre Syndrome. While I am NOT implying that Beta glucan will lead to these diseases, they are the result of improper stimulation of the immune system.

Even more interesting is the article "Candida albicans Derived Fungal PAMPS, CAWS, Water Soluble Mannoprotein–B-Glucan Complex Shows Similar Immunotoxicological
Activity with Bacterial Endotoxin from Escherichia coliO9" Biol Pharm Bull. 2006 Feb;29(2):240-6 (which comes from a scientific peer-reviewed journal) which states that CAWS (B-glucan extracted from C. albicans) has "has various biological effects, such as anaphylactoid shock and coronary arteritis."

The authors demonstrated that B-glucan had similar mortality rates as does E. coli LPS...Hmmmm mortality....anaphylactic shock....both bad things.

Unfortunately, every site that I looked at concerning B-glucan (including betaglucan.org, which is sponsored by Nutritional Scientific Corporation, a company that sells B-glucan...hmmmm...) are NOT scientific sites. They are disseminating scientifically unsound conclusions based upon misinterpretations of published data. In addition, much of their "data" comes not from peer-reviewed journals, but from other dubious sources.

My point, as a microbiologist, is at best B-glucan would be a waste of money to add to the tank, and at worst could have long-term detrimental effects on your livestock's health.

[impur]

Thank you very much for your input, i do appreciate it. I admit my research on beta glucan is just beginning.

My idea for using this would not be long term. I came to the idea that it might be beneficial to incorporate it into my fish's diet for the short term, coupled with garlic, to help my fish fight off minor cases of ich.

I understand the life cycle of ich and i've notice some positive results using garlic in that the cysts do not stay attached longer than 2 days, and only 2 of my fish periodically show signs of ich. Now whether or not beta glucan would help stimulate their immune system for a period in which it would allow the fish to continue fighting it off, possibly long enough for it to die off in the tank, is yet to be seen. But i thought this was worth a look for the 5 bucks it would cost to try.

[webbstock]

impur I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you meant to add B-glucan a constant food supplement.

I don't know how well it would work as a treatment. One thing I noticed in reading I did most B-glucan is injected to the bloodstream. Oral ingestion of B-glucan might result in degradation of the compound in the gut, but I don't really know. On the plus side fish might also absorb some through their gills into the bloodstream.

It would be interesting to see if there was any noticable difference in ich etc.

hmmmm I smell and experiment

[impur]

No prob I'm thinking over a period of about 6-8 weeks, which is a good period of time. I'm thinking i will dissolve it in some RO and soak the food in that for 30min or so along with some amminos and garlic.

Well i guess the only real way to tell is to give it a shot. I'll pick some up this weekend and report back in a week or 2.

Thanks for all your info.

[TerryB]

Beta glucan is now commonly used in veterinary medicine and some commercial fisheries use foods that contain it. Typically, it is used in food for six weeks and then taking a two week break before using it again. Some breeders are using it now. It seems to be especially popular with seahorse people.

Terry B

[impur]

Thanks for the info Terry. I had hoped you would chime in I'm gonna do some more research over at seahorse.org to see what kind of results they are seeing.