Red Acro "Bugs" -- The Treatment

[Dustin]

There is a vet who is supposed to get me the weights of the smaller pills, I am just waiting for an answer from him. The active ingredient weights for each pill is known. As you stated the 11-25lb pill has 5.75mg of milbemycin oxime instead of 23mg like the 51-100lb large breed pills. The large breed pills weigh 1 gram (23mg of active ingredient, the rest is fillers), if the small breed pills weigh 1/4 gram then the dosage would be the same (remember the dosage is based on the weight of the pill, not the quantity of milbemycin).

If you can get a weight on the pill that would help us out, maybe you can get an answer before the vet gets back to me.

[mikeo1210]

Originally posted by LowCel
OK, I found that the Interceptor that treats 11 - 25 pound dogs is 5.75 mg compared to the ones that treat 51 - 100 pound dogs being 23 mg. So now I guess I just need to know how much I need to treat 85 gallons.

You sure that dog's 11 pounds? LOL.. couldn't resist.

[playful1]

Interceptor 2-10 lbs 2.3 mg milbemycin, 6 months (brown) Interceptor 11-25 lbs 5.75 mg milbemycin, 6 months (green)
Interceptor 26-50 lbs 11.5 mg milbemycin, 6 months (yellow)
Interceptor 51-100 lbs 23 mg milbemycin, 6 months (white)

[Dustin]

I know I have brought this up in multiple threads, multiple times. Unfortunately Novartis pubilishes the milbemycin weights in those pills but not the weight of the pills themselves. You guys have to understand, the numbers posted above don't really mean anything because the dosage is based on the quantity of interceptor not the quantity of milbemycin. The large breed pills that the dosage of 0.025g/gal is based on contains approx. 2.5% milbemycin oxime. If the smaller pills contain 2.5% milbemycin oxime then the 0.025g/gal dosage could be used.
If this is the case the small breed pill would have to weigh 1/10th of a gram. Thats a pretty small pill. This could very well be the case, but we should find out for sure. If the pills contain a lower or higher percentage of milbemycin a different dosage would have to be worked out for each pill.

[playful1]

Haven't we discussed this before..is the milbemycin the active ingredient? So a quaret of a 23 mg pill treats 10g that means that 5.75mg of milbemycin treats 10g....Right??? That means that 1 green 11-25lbs. dog pill would treat 10g...Right???

[Dustin]

Yes, Milbemycin oxime is the active ingredient.

No, a quarter of a large pill does not treat 10 gallons. A full pill treats 380-400 gallons, meaning a quarter pill (this means 5.75mg of milbemycin) treats 95 to 100 gallons.

So, this does mean that the green pill will treat 100 gallons, but it does NOT mean that 1/4 of a green pill will treat 25 gallons. (note. . . this may not be true, we need to know the weight of the pill)

What I am basically saying is, the only way you can semi-safely dose your tank using a portion of a pill is by using the large breed tablets UNTIL we know how much the smaller pills weigh. If they contain the same 2.5% active ingredient, then splitting the smaller pills to treat smaller tanks will be fine.

[ReeferMac]

LOL! Sorry you've got to explain that so many times Dustin.
No, it's not you.

- Mac

[matt the fiddler]

so here's the q i havent' seen a red bug in 2 weeks, and been a good month since they have ben at plague levels... they used to be plaguing 2 of my acros... now, very scarse if even at all there [i KNOW they are hiding]

what would be the projected time scale if i don't see any- to consider my tank "fragable" and tradable again?

is it not "ethical" if i wait a set amount of time bug free [assuming something in the tank is controlling them- i think the sixline] to start unless i treat? since i am moving tanks, and able to pull my shrimp out soon- it is january or never...

i do know that something is is getting them down for sure.. and 2 acros are getting their color back...


maybe if i just dose frags before i trade them to be sure?

[playful1]

I guess the statement that a green pill doses 100g but a quarter of a green pill doesn't dose 25g doesn't make sense to me...no it's not you maybe it's me, but does this seem like an SAT question. IN my book if you need 5.75mg of active ingredient treats 100g, 1.4375mg should treat 25 gallons...What am I missing, the fact that I'm not weighing pills? I shouldn't need to wiegh a pill to determine that if I have 100g to dose I toss in a 5.75mg pill...Fill me in...

[Dustin]

You are right. I was too focused on the weight the pills and its implications with treating properly (by weighing the medication rather than cutting the pill).
So, if you focus on the quantity of milbemycin and treat your tank using 0.575mg/10gallons you could treat by divisions of the pill.
But, at this time, there is no suggested dosage by weight of the entire pill when using anything smaller than the large breed pills.

[fishdoc11]

matt the fiddler,
I don't think it would be ethical to trade until after you have treated your tank 3 times according to the directions and don't see any bugs for say at least a month after that... possibly longer.
Chris

[MiddletonMark]

Matt - Here's my take. I don't claim to be right or a philospher

Personally, honesty is the best policy.
I'm happy to tell anyone my experience, treatment, and recent observations.
I personally got them early last spring, eventually treated three times, and haven't seen them since. That's all I can offer someone, but I'd bet that's better than `never had them' or `what are they' as responses if anyone asks.

If you do the same, I can't see that being unethical. And maybe once worked in your case ... god knows. Seems unlikely to me, but unlikely things sometimes happen.

If you say you never had them or that you followed the treatment to a T ... not good IMHO.

If you say you had them, treated once, and they're gone as far as you've seen ... I'd suspect few people can pass that lovely frag you have by. I would be honest and not stress it, you might teach someone about red bugs and at worst sleep well at night. If they don't want your frag, maybe they don't deserve it

[matt the fiddler]

i have not treated yet.. they have been vanishing on the tanks own accord!

now if there is a constant hatch going, and what i have eats them right away.. then once the predator is gone, yea the population would explode again...

mabye i will hit it, for safetys sake... though my tank killing the bugs on it's own is good bragging rights IMO

but then again this area that i just moved too has a strange LACK OF STINKIN SPS KEEPERS TO TRADE WITH!!! people here at max are 175 W halide and softies! @$@#$@#^@#$%

not like being tradable would help me..; :/

[ReeferMac]

I was up front w/ people about it. Told them flat out, QT my frags, they likley have the bugs.
Still was able to make two trades.
I recently completed my 3 treatments this weekend.. and unless it's an individual I trust, I plan on treating all incoming frags as suspect, and will be QT'ing and treating them before adding to my system.

- Mac

[LowCel]

Originally posted by mikeo1210
You sure that dog's 11 pounds? LOL.. couldn't resist.

Yeah, she's grown up. She's a big dog now!


Ughh, this stinks only having access to the smaller pills and not knowing if they are safe to use. Does anyone have one of the large pills that they could spare?

[playful1]

Did you go to your vet and explain? I went to a local vet...not my vet because they didn't carry interceptor and told them my situation and they readily supplied me with pills, even cut them for me...I used the smaller pills on my tank, because it was easier for me to get the correct dosage...

[mikeo1210]

Originally posted by Ereefic
Just telling my experience.

I should have used a smaller dose for the size tank I treated. I choose to use a half of 1 pill because I was only going to treat twice, not 3 times. I did read Dustin's directions, along with many, many other people experiences and then did what I did with no ill effects. It worked. Bugs are gone and everything is alive.

So everybody, follow the directions. But don't hold me responsible if you don't follow the directions and have problems.

JMO but, I'm with Ereefic, I think some people are being a bit anal.
I've known and read of many different experiences (not to mention my own) where people eyeballed doses or even dosed on the strong side w/o harm to their corals or fish. I didn't want to do the treatment after reading about weighing out doses, doing 500 water changes, risk of losing everything, etc, etc.
FWIW and JMO but it's not that big of deal. That being said (and I think someone had to), of course it's always best to follow directions and you most definetly should to if anything familiarize yourself w/ the suggested process. Remember this is too new to be proven one way or another.

[LowCel]

Originally posted by playful1
Did you go to your vet and explain?

Yup, sure did......

Originally posted by LowCel
I went to the vet today to try to get some from them. I explained what my problem was, I even took in some threads for them to read plus a picture of my tank. What they told me was that if I would bring in a water sample that contained the bugs they would sell me some.

I have no idea how to get a sample of water with red bugs. Especially when I am only 50% sure I even have them. It's just that I have gotten frags from several places so I figure that the odds of me having them are pretty good. I have seen a couple of small red spots on my purple bottle brush and on an acro so I am definately concerned.

[mikeo1210]

Originally posted by LowCel
Yup, sure did.......

LowCel- I ordered my large pills online (petcarerx.com) and didn't need a prescription. It's close to $40 w/ tax but, you'll have 6 pills which will last you a LONG time. You'll probably use the extras for dipping/quarantining new frags. Go in on it w/ a friend and still have plenty left over (you're only going to need 1/4 pill per treatment (for ~100 gallons). Using a different size/color/flavor pill might be a risk. Good to have on hand just in case.

[tricky]

I just completed a successful 3-dose treatment, no big problems. Polyp extension immediately increased on several acros, doing even better now. The only issue I have had is some RTN or possibly bleaching. This was probably due to the clarity of the water with so much carbon use. I have cut back the lighting, seems to be healing now.

I, too had a little problem getting the Interceptor from the local Vet. On my first trip in, I explained the problem to the front desk along with a copy of Dustin's treatment. She talked to the Vet and he was willing to write a script, but did not want to because I was not a regular patient, and I do not have any of the kinds of pets that they work on. She suggested that I could give a neighbor's name and they would use their patient account.

I found a neighbor that is a regular patient and returned. This time, a different front desk lady took the information, again disappeared to talk to the Vet. This time, they did not want to mess up the patient record of my neighbor, but instead agreed to make me a patient (or my fish, coral or whatever). We had some fun putting the patient info into the computer: Category- other, color-blue, size-small etc. We were having quiet a bit of fun with it, and she couldn't wait till the other people in the office saw the new patient record. Turns out this front desk lady has a freshwater tank with a 17-year old oscar. Before it was over, the vet came out and was quite interested in the whole situation. We all had some fun with it!

Rick

[decong65]

any one sale intercepter ???
i have red bug problem..
plz help me out

tel 201-941-6525

thanks


mike

[boobookitty]

So, has anyone figured out a way to remove acro crabs effectively? I know about the bottle method for other shrimp, but if there is any way to protect the acro crabs before treatment I'd like to try.

I've read the whole thread (yes, the whole thread ), and haven't seen a good method for saving the acro crabs.

Arthur

[boobookitty]

Dang double post.

Arthur

[Nano4Kids]

Has anyone had success using this treatment on cirolanid isopods? It is my last resort before nuking the tank and starting over. I dosed today following the directions from Dustin and I have my fingers crossed.

Thanks
Doug

[whitesquall]

I AM OFFICIALLY RED BUG FREE
completed the prescibed 3 dose treatment but treated every 10days and all is well pod population is already bouncing back, improvement in polyp extension is very noticable.
I consider myself in the safe frag traders club. now to setup a quarentine system.