So you got a new fish tank Newbie

[WaterKeeper]

Originally posted by loyalty
Much thanks to waterkeeper for keeping this thread up

Some people say I'm dragging it down.

[dbranca]

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
Some people say I'm dragging it down.

The only thing you are dragging down is gross misinformation. You will save many thousands of reefers from going down the wrong path in one way or another.

I for one am grateful for your willingness to share your expertise in this format and appreciate your humor... keep it up please

wow, I wish I could get some brownie points for this one

[WaterKeeper]

Thanks for your comments Dave.

Here is a Brownie Point

Dang, I did'nt know that Brownies now have blue uniforms. I wonder when they change their name to Bluies?

[jbucholz]

Thanks for the response!

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
If you add sufficient LS to a Southdown bed this process happens in a week or two. If you don't seed your bed it can take much longer. True the LR will seed a dead sand base but again it is not as effective as a healthy dose of good LS.

OK. Do I need to let the tank go through its cycle first, or can I add the LS now? I was planning on going to ipsf.com and getting the LS along with some other things I think I need (amphipods and caulerpa). Can these also go into the tank before the cycle?

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
The second factor is how your discharge enters the main tank. If it impacts directly into the bed it will stir things up. When using a sump I like to fashion a manifold for the return line. This is just a piece of PVC pipe that runs horizontal and parallel to the sand surface. The pipe has holes drilled in it that are at an angle of 30-45 degrees away from the sandbed and direct the water upward. This help keep the sump return water from directly stirring the bed. It also provides current along the length of the tank. If you use powerheads in the tank you want their flow to be directed upward toward the surface.

I've designed my system to use the U-tubes with directional return. I can angle the directional return away from the sand bed, but the return pump I am using is powerful enough that it still stirs the sand somewhat.

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
One other thing that you can do after the initial settling is to run a canister filter with polishing element. A 1 or 2 micron filter is fine. This will trap the fines that stir up in the first few weeks. These fines really serve little purpose in the bed so it is OK to remove them. The polishing filter clogs fast at first. Merely soak it in a 50/50 water- vinegar mix for about a half hour, rinse well and you're back in business.

I'll did some initial looking into this, and it looks like there are benefits to this that go beyond the initial sandstorm (do they really filter out the ich parasite like they claim?). Is there anything special I should look for in a filter? I assume the ones that are sold on ebay (Vortex) will do the job?

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
Hope that helps

Immensely! Thanks much!

- Jim

[WaterKeeper]

Jim,

If your in mid-cycle I'd wait until the ammonia drops before adding anything more. Some LS does cause some cycling on its own but never with the same magnitude as LR. You can add it during the cycle but you'll get more sand critters by doing it after the LR has cycled. By the way, I prefer Halimeda, Cactus algae, over Caulerpa. It tends to be less invasive and has a more compact form.

You may need to throttle the pump until the sand gets a biofilm established. You can always add a throttling valve to the discharge (never throttle the intake).

There are a ton of canisters on the market so it is hard to choose one over the other. You do want one that has sub-micron filter cartridges if you wish to use it to filter out ich or bacteria. A 0.5 micron will certainly remove ich and all but the smallest bacteria. The sub-microns do clog up fast so you need to buy a couple.You clean one in a bleach solution while you run the other.

[jbucholz]

Thanks again. Fortunately I plumbed a valve into my system that will enable a portion of the pump discharge to return directly to the sump. Throttling that back works perfectly.

- Jim

[The real Fish Lips]

Hello,
So, if you were going too set up a 150 fish/rock tank how would filter it? Would you sump with bio-balls, or live rock? I'm looking at an Aqua clear wet dry with bio-balls and skimmer.(Pro 200).
Thanks,
The real fish lips

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Real Lips

To Reef Central

A sump with bioballs is a wet/dry. Why not leave out the bioballs and just have a sump. As I mentioned way back in the first couple of pages of this thread a wet/dry does not help limit nitrates like having a DSB and LR.

The way you filter any tank is to use LR and a DSB. They should be in the main tank and not the sump. Flow through the sump is too fast to provide sufficient contact time and the bottom surface area of the sump is usually to small for the sandbed to provide denitrification. Keep the sump bare and locate your skimmer in it.

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

YES welcome real fish lips !!

[Radicaljbr]

In talking about sumps. Can't you convert it to a refuge by buying a real mild return pump and perhaps Tee-ing off the water from the overflow so that the current is nice and slow through the sump?

thanks

[WaterKeeper]

You really need to have high water movement in the sump unless it is extremely large. Don't forget you want at least 10X turnovers in your main tank per hour. People do baffle portions of the sump and use it as a fuge. If you place the return downstream of the baffled fuge it should get low flow.

[Radicaljbr]

I am sorry!! I guess I am not understanding this. I have pleanty of PHs in my tank so isn't the sump return just a bonus for the water turnover?

[WaterKeeper]

Oh OK. Sure the powerheads will work OK. Most people rely on the sump return for the bulk of their circulation. If you count on the powerheads, then using the sump for a fuge is fine.

[Radicaljbr]

Thanks Tom!

[MPH]

Tom,

Been following ur threads for awhile and was going to do things slow with a lot of up front learning and planning as you suggest. Then this came along: (you don’t have to read it all, just get the idea)

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=414604

So now I’m in deep.

My question is, I have been testing ammonia, nitrites, and pH every night and doing 20% water changes every other night. As u can see, there’s a lot of life in this tank so I don’t want to let the ammonia get out of hand. What I’m not understanding is that the ammonia reading is always 0.2 not matter if I do a water change or not, nitrites are always 0 and nitrates are always 0, pH stays around 8.4. Salt water is made up with RO/DI that tests as 0 TDS. This been setup for over 2 weeks now. I’m wondering if there is some reason why the cycle is not progressing.

[WaterKeeper]

Nothing like buying a school of tangs-



How did you move that sucker from Ct to Pa? There may have been a little dieoff in transport but in an established tank it shouldn't't be lasting at all. I think the ammonia reading may be partly from the test kit you use rather than true ammonia. If nitrite and nitrate are both below detection limits then any new cycle is complete and ammonia won't be present to any degree.

You would think after 10 years the original owner would know what he had in his tank rather than, "yellow with black stripes but now black with a yellow tail". For all I know it could be a Xanthurus Angel, which is not very reef safe. Also those tangs aren't 10 years old; much too small.


Anyhow Miles, I wouldn't worry about the ammonia. It sounds like a false reading. Enjoy your eBay deal.

[MPH]

Tom,

Thx for the info. The move was a challenge and in hide site, I should have hired a guy who does reef maintenance to help with the set up. I really didn't know what I was doing and it wound up taking the better part of 2 days. That plus the long day to do the move made it a long weekend. Almost everything seemed to survive the trip quite well. Can't wait till I can get this to its final location although that means another move but only a couple of feet this time.

I don't think the guy was implying that the tangs were 10 years old, just the tank setup. He did tell me that he’s had several other fish in there. There was a small blue damsel that didn't survive, victim to the canister filter I was using to clear the mud storm. Dan, the seller, has been very helpful and I am still trading e-mail with him.

The mystery, not only is not reef safe, but is very nasty, I think he’s going to go. He attacks the other fish constantly.

I'm using a brand new Red Sea SW test kit. Is there something better I should be using? Or is it possible that this one was too old?

[WaterKeeper]

Probably too old. The ammonia test reagents don't age too well, especially if they are in liquid form.

[MPH]

I'll pick up a freah one today.

[MPH]

I confirmed that the problem is with the test kit. I took 2 samples of tank water and 2 samples of fresh SW and tested them. Couldn't tell the difference between tank water and new SW. However, the expiration date is Feb. 06 so I'm wondering why it doesn't work.

[WaterKeeper]

Well that at least lets you know that the tank probably has zero ammonia.

[tibbs2]

Wow, I finally finished reading this thread. Great information in here. I am looking for a 75 gallon tank and have read that you should have 1 inch of fish for every 2 gallons or or 1:1 but I've not seen anything regarding invertibrates and crustaceans? Any recommendation on how many of either of these I can have in the tank?

[WaterKeeper]

Glad you found it helpful Tibbs,

I'm not sure I am as helpful on the invert issue. Many people feel there is no limit. If you take a look at many of RC's Tanks of the Month you see wall to wall coral. If you are considering stony corals I feel that the limiting factor seems to be calcium. You see threads all the time where people just can't get enough calcium into their tanks to keep up with demand. To me that indicates overstocking.

Another problem is antagonism between species. Many corals use "sweeper" tentacles to define their space. These are specialized stinging cell that they extend to defend and area. In some cases the sting is potent enough to kill other corals and inverts.

Another thing is how big does it grow? What once was a cute little carpet anemone becomes a problem when it covers the entire tank floor. To me wall to wall carpeting is a bit much in a reef tank.

The key here is to research what you consider for your tank before making a purchase. Eric Borneman can provide a lot of good info on corals and Doc Ron on other inverts.

I wish I had a more definitive answer but I don't.

Did I say 2 gallons per inch? Three to five is much better. Thirty-five some inches of fish is a bit much for a 75. The 3 gallon per inch is for fish that don't swim about very much. You can squeeze a pretty large eel into a fairly small tank. With something like a Tang you need more space for these actively swimming fish. Here 5 or more gallons per inch is appropriate and remember one Tang that grows to 12 or more inches is about all a 75 can handle. You can have other smaller fish with it but two Tangs would be too much.

[thereefkid]

dear waterkeeper

im so glad someone told me about you cuz your a life saver my names matt and im 16 and i loveeeee fish tanks i have a 20g and 75g freshwater but i think its time for me to start a saltwater tank i have everything i need but LR and LS i dont know a thing about saltwater besides theres salt.. in the water. i dont know anything about the cycle and i have just read some of your post and you know what your talking about so i was wondering if you could help a newbie out . i have a digital camera and im going to take pictures as i go along and keep everyone posted. thanks again waterkeeper

matt the newbie

[WaterKeeper]

Picture threads of new tank start-ups are usually popular on the Newbie Forum and get lots of views and comments. Post it as a new thread when ready and be prepared to answer lots of questions, as well as recieve answers.

Good Luck and if you can't get good answers in that thread your always welcome to ask in a post on this one.