The Frogfish Files - Page 20

RamPuppy · #**476** 04/05/2004, 05:03 PM

well, the planned tank is going to be, starting out:

30 gallon long
w 50/50 Actinic/10K lighting

4 inch sand bed with as much micro fauna as I can get out of my 30 hex by the time I set it up. (participating with the 30 hex in the sand swap) (hopefully get some pods, mini-stars, bristle worms and spaghetti worms in there.)

probably put about 30 pounds of lalo live rock in there as well as a Couple Xenia Colonies for their chemical filtration abilities, and some red grape algae to encourage the red coloration, along with a couple of pacific red ball sponges.

Filtration will initially consist of a Magnum 350 running full load of carbon and the blue filter media, eventually, I will add a remora protien skimmer to that as well.

Since, from reading this thread it appears frogs won't touch hermits or snails, I will probably use turbos and Dwarf Zebras, or if the dwarfs are too small, just snails.

I guess if you guys think that a 30 is big enough for a commersons, then I really don't have much to worry about, other than the fact I WANT him to stay small.

Newflee · #**477** 04/05/2004, 05:49 PM

30 gal will be just fine, and yes I haven't noticed any attraction two the cleanup crew of which I have numerous in Meatballs little tank. I basically have my frog tank set up as you describe with zoos, shrooms, stars, candycanes and caulerpa. The frog needs none of this of course but it may lend some security for him and also spruce up what would just be a boring tank. The deco does get in the way of him feeding though and provides a place for ghost shrimp to hide which isn't good, but my guy eats frozen now so that's ok.
Lighting is one 13 watt daylight CF and no skimmer....the simple corals are doing great to my surprise. Any more light would create a heat problem on my tank. I used to have the 6 set up as a nano with three 13 watt CF and it was great but I had to install a remote sump and mini chiller which made the whole excercise a little overkill.
Since your rock will be doing most of the bio filtration, make sure you use semi freshly cured or rock from a heavy bio load tank so that it is strong enough to handle the little waste maker. Old rock or rock from a lightly loaded tank will not cut it initially. Make sure it's FULLY cured though of course.

Good luck, have fun, and don't become a sad story on the thread.

Remember The gospel....."DON'T OVERFEED"

Lee

RamPuppy · #**478** 04/06/2004, 01:29 PM

Well, I personally don't have any tanks to make live rock donations from, when I set up this tank, I will also be finishing up the live rock on my 30 hex, so I am planning on ordering about 60 pounds of lalo from live aquaria. The rock that goes into the hex will be cured in a rubbermaid tub on my back porch, but the rock that goes into the frog tank, will get a good scrubbing and go right in the tank, so that the rock cycles the tank. After a couple weeks, when the cycle is on it's downward spiral, I will add in some live sand from the hex, so there should be the before mentioned life going in, and then another week or so, probably some larger hermits, maybe some electric blues (sadly have not had much luck with them yet... bought four for the hex, all died over 4 weeks. the little zebras are doing fine in there. I recently read the electric blues and oranges only live about 2 years... maybe since all of mine were large, they were allready old... only thing I can think of... regardless, that tank is currently getting scrubbed out the wazoo with carbon, just in case.

Anyhow.. off the point...

I imagine the lalo will be pretty nice rock for the tank, and between the red ball sponge and the red grape algae, I am hoping he will have a pre-disposition to turn red... I don't know.. I LIKE them that color above any other, but really, I think I will love it regardless of what clothes he chooses to wear.

Reefcherie · #**479** 04/06/2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Newflee
Many have commented on the thread that theirs have changed colors from black to red to yellow etc., but I haven't heard any indication that tank furniture gas any effect, although you would think it should.

Actually, Fuggly turned from black to the exact red/orange color of the sponge that I put in with him (a tree sponge) within a couple of weeks. At the same time, he developed "spots" that looked exacly like sponge openings. Unfortunately, the sponge wasn't doing that well in the refugium with him, so I had to pull it out. He started changing from red/orange to peach and then to his current yellow almost immediately upon removal of the sponge.

I wonder if we had exact identification of the species of our frogfish (beyond A. maculatus), if we'd find certain species change color more easily in response to habitat changes or if that ability is more dependent upon individual frogfish "personality?"

Regarding identification - I saw a website once (I've forgotten where though) that showed the different lures of each species of angler and claimed that was the most accurate method of identification. I can certainly see that my A. maculatus not only has a different shaped lure than the one I think is A. pictus, but the lure is used quite differently. Both A. maculatus I've had circle their lure, while my other frogfish jerks it up and down. It sure would be nice to know you have a A. pictus vs. A. commerson given the eventual huge size difference!

Cheri

frogster20001 · #**480** 04/06/2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fishy1
I just posted about cannibalism risk being high for frogfishes, and just finished bragging about how my frogfish was doing well living with an arc-eye hawkfish........look what just happened! Dudley is now Fat Albert and the arc-eye is history Hope Dudley lives to eat another day!

Keep in mine the arc-eye was at least as big as the frogfish if not a little bigger!

yes!!! I had my 3 inch frog fish in with my clarkii clown and the clown was a little bigger and he just got thru sucking him up! Oh what a horrific site to see...my poor clown!! Well..I guess I learned my lesson also on the effectiveness of the frogfish stretchy stomach!!! NO more tankmates!!!

Newflee · #**481** 04/06/2004, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reef Cherie

I wonder if we had exact identification of the species of our frogfish (beyond A. maculatus), if we'd find certain species change color more easily in response to habitat changes or if that ability is more dependent upon individual frogfish "personality?"

Regarding identification - I saw a website once (I've forgotten where though) that showed the different lures of each species of angler and claimed that was the most accurate method of identification. I can certainly see that my A. maculatus not only has a different shaped lure than the one I think is A. pictus, but the lure is used quite differently. Both A. maculatus I've had circle their lure, while my other frogfish jerks it up and down. It sure would be nice to know you have a A. pictus vs. A. commerson given the eventual huge size difference!

Cheri

Well just to throw another wrench in the works...my guy was sold as Pictus yet he is black as the Maculatus and he circle-jerks his lure

. No kidding. There doesn't seem to be any truth to the luring pattern as far as I can see.

Here's a link to the site I think your refering to. It has some good info if you believe it.

http://www.starfish.ch/frogfish/Behavior.html

Lee

Newflee · #**482** 04/06/2004, 06:43 PM

Bye the way meatball has a lure that most resembles Indicus on that site. His rod is also striped with red as Indicus.

Lee

RamPuppy · #**483** 04/06/2004, 10:00 PM

I think a solid identification will probably have to come from number of dorsal rays and such.

blackangler · #**484** 04/06/2004, 10:48 PM

hey finely some good news, i called my lfs today and they told my they finely got my angler in. im going over there tomorrow and picking it up. there is two there, a red pictus and a white and red wartskin. which one do you think i shold choose

blackangler · #**485** 04/07/2004, 10:20 PM

well the news wasnt so good. when i went over to my lfs today. the red had already gotten an air bubble and was swiming on the surface and the wartskin was really a brown very ugly color and was very skiny the guy at my fish store who himself has an agler tank told me that he wasnt there when they unloaded the fish. so i must wait anouther week to for more to come in

slylie · #**486** 04/07/2004, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blackangler
hey finely some good news, i called my lfs today and they told my they finely got my angler in. im going over there tomorrow and picking it up. there is two there, a red pictus and a white and red wartskin. which one do you think i shold choose

the wartskin!! they are wicked.. look nice and stay small.. perfect.

RamPuppy · #**487** 04/07/2004, 11:16 PM

personally would hold out for another pictus...

Newflee · #**488** 04/08/2004, 01:27 AM

Ya I'd wait unless you are an expert at saving frogs....which apparently none of us are.
I haven't ever had to but I bet you could coax some air out of a frog with some gentle massage just like a puffer.

It really is a shame that these guys are dying for lack of proper handling.
This thread might be contributing to the interest in this great fish and it's subsequent importation and sale to inexperrienced keepers. I hope not.

These fish are too neat to be dying in pet shops and newbee's tanks. Or mine for that matter.

Lee

Reefcherie · #**489** 04/08/2004, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Newflee
I haven't ever had to but I bet you could coax some air out of a frog with some gentle massage just like a puffer.

If it were me, I'd take the Warty - colors can and do change and a skinny frogfish can be fattened if it will eat. Of course, if it were me, I'd try to talk the owner out of the floating one for free (or close to it) and would try the massage technique. Worst case - it doesn't work and the poor little guy dies - which it would have anyway if no one tries. Best case - you save him and are "stuck" w/ two frogfish. If they are small, you can put one or both in a small critter keeper sunk inside a bigger tank for a while until you find a new home for the one you don't want. I had both my 1.5" ones housed that way inside another tank while waiting for the other tanks to get set up. But that is just me and I admit to being a little crazy

Cheri

RamPuppy · #**490** 04/08/2004, 10:19 AM

I think I read on wet web media if you hold them, head facing up, and gently squeeze/massage, that you can actually force the air out.... but I can't remember... those guys know their stuff... if you haven't read their frogfish stuff... definately worth it.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anglerfaqs.htm

blackangler · #**491** 04/08/2004, 06:07 PM

i in fact have. i called them today, the wartskin they said died because it didnt eat, and the floater is still there, the guy who actually has one is back there now, and he has moved it to quarinteen to try to get the bubble out. so i guess i will wait till next week. although i have been looking a t vividaquaria. i wonder what the wartskins there are like. anyone have any comments about vividaquaria

Wee Man · #**492** 04/09/2004, 08:25 PM

one thing that scott michael suggests is sticking a hypodermic in its stomach through the skin and suckin out the airbubble. i dont know if i trust it but he says to do it.

Newflee · #**493** 04/09/2004, 08:47 PM

You can do that if you know enough about frog anatomy, but I for one don't know enough about their organ layout to risk it. This is why if one dies it is important to open him up and post some pics of the internal layout.

Newflee · #**494** 04/09/2004, 10:10 PM

Here's a pic of Meatball tonight.
As you can see he's getting a maroon color with greenish lips. His spots have a grey border as well. Cool red eyes and nostrils eh?
He's hiding his lure but you can see that his rod is red.
Can't wait to see what he looks like in another couple months. He's probably 50% larger than when I got him a couple months back.

Lee

Reefcherie · #**495** 04/10/2004, 08:19 AM

I think Meatball is terrific looking and he sure fits his name!

Cheri

slylie · #**496** 04/10/2004, 11:59 AM

meatball... good frogfish name.

blackangler · #**497** 04/10/2004, 09:30 PM

lol

RamPuppy · #**498** 04/11/2004, 01:34 PM

now all meatball needs in his tank are some spaghetti worms, and the plate is complete.

blackangler · #**499** 04/11/2004, 06:42 PM

any worries with putting a clam in with an angler. i know the angler wont eat it, but the clam wont go snap on the angler will it

Fishy1 · #**500** 04/11/2004, 09:15 PM

I wouldn't put a clam in with an angler. My friend just called me yesterday to tell me that she came home from work to find her dwarf angel inside her 5 inch clam. Only his rear half was sticking out......the front half was partially digested after only a few hours inside the clam. HTH

Fishy1