Akindynos - Ist hatch

[Sanjay]

Well, the first batch of akindynos hatched last night on the 9th day. Unfortunately, most of them are dead by this morning. What did I do wrong.. or should differently. Here is what I did

1) Caught them using a larval catcher
2) Put them in a 10G tank, using water from the parents tank...about 3" of water
3) added rots right after putting them in the 10G tank along with a few drops of instant alage to help "co-culture" the rots
4) left a light on all night on the babies tank so they could feed

Went to check this morning.. and most were dead.. the ones alive seem to be swimming in a spiral and not the normal swimming motion.

I have raised ocellaris in the past with some success. Is there anything different I need to do with akindynos ?

Thanks for any help you can provide. Hopefully they will lay the next batch of eggs soon.

sanjay.

[phender]

In my experiance the first batch of fry from a newly breeding pair are usually very fragile. You may not have done anything wrong.
I like to have my 10 gal. fry tank at least half full. I feel like I can control the current in the tank better with a little more water.
Good luck,

[Kathy55g]

Can you use instant algae to co-culture, or would live phyto be better?

[bededog]

I have not had any success with using IA in my larval tanks. I don't have a whole lot of experience, but out of 10 or so batches of larvae, the only two I had any trouble with were the two to which I added IA to their tanks the day of hatching.

[Vert20]

Airstone/heater? Assuming yes since you know what your doing with larvae.

I co-culture with IA all the time, with no issues. Like Phender said, more water maybe, My 10's are half full at hatch night then I slowly drop salinity over the next few days to about 7 gals (adding two gals RO via drip)

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Vert20
Airstone/heater? Assuming yes since you know what your doing with larvae.

I thought I knew what I was doing... but obviously the larvae did not agree with me.

How much air should I be running ? I was not using a air stone but had a rigid airline running into the tank. is there such a thing as too much water flow for the larve ? I do not think my water was moving too fast for them.

The heater could be an issue. I may have too powerful a heater for that tank (my 50W broke so I used the 150W heater) it creates a 3 degree swing between the high and low and may be doing that too fast ? temp ranged from about 77 to 80. parents tank temp last night was at 77 when I fished the larve out.

I will add more water to the tank next time... make it at least 1/2 full in the 10G tank.

Time to wait, get ready and debug process before next batch of eggs is laid.

sanjay.

[Vert20]

IMO the airstone (placed under the heater element) keeps the larvae from gathering in the heated water area, disperses them before they suffocate.

Might have been too quick of a temp swing...some folks actually lower the temp in the larvae tank to slow down metabolism and allow the larvae more time to learn to hunt before the reserves run out.

And yes (IMO) you can have too much air, they are learning to hunt moving objects, turbulence just makes that harder...keep us posted ont he next hatch. I had some Maroons hatch last night as well. so far so good...so time will tell.

[mattydub]

are any still alive at all?

[Morgman]

This is very common for akindynos. Weak larave is one of the reasons it is so hard to raise them. With the few clutches I worked with the majority of them seemed to die off the first night, ala in the morning of hatching. Not to mention they are very small larvae compared to other clowns. The good thing about them is they have huge nests!!!

[jacob30]

What kind of light did you leave on all night and how high was it positioned from the tank? I have limited experience but have had bad luck with a light too soon after hatching. My latest hatch of A.ocellaris did not have their own light for the first three days (just ambient room light). They have done quite well so far. There are so many variables its hard to tell sometimes exactly what the cause is.

Good luck next time.

[phender]

As far as water movement goes....
I like enough bubbles (I use a very coarse airstone) to move the water, but weak enough for the fry to be able to swim(and make headway) against the current.

[Sanjay]

OK.. I now have the 2nd batch of eggs. Eggs were laid today, again in the evening between 8-10 PM. 16 days after the previous batch, and 7 days after the hatch of the previous batch.

I only have 4 babies surviing so far from the previous batch, at one week old. They now seem to be the size of new true perc larve, still to small for BBS.. wonder when I should feed the BBS, and when I should expect metamorphosis.

I have a few questions in getting ready for this next hatch.

1) Light - what should I do with it. Should I turn on the light the first night after I transfer them to the tank. ? What should I use for a light. Right now I have been using 1/2 of a 15W flourescent lamp. How long should I turn in it on.

2) When should I add rotifers ? The last time I added them right after I put the babies in thier own tank.

3) Should I co-culture the rotifers after adding them.. ie. should I add instant alage to the babies tank water or just go with rotifers.

4) Wondering if there is anything else I should do different. ?

sanjay.

[zooqi]

Sanjay, I have been reading about the ling on for the first three days 24/7 and in my experience the night that I turned it off I lost more and at one point I kept the light on for more than 4 days and did not lose as much and as soon as I turned it off I lost most of them. Good luck this time.

[JHardman]

Air... Do NOT use a single hard line, the force of the water movement is enough to kill. You want to use a stone and have enough water movement to keep good gas exchange, i.e. deform the surface. You also want enough water movement that you do not get dead zones, you need to keep all the water moving, i.e. multiple stones all flowing on low...

Your heater is likely a killer too. A 150w in a tank that small is going to really heat the water near it. Use a small 50w to maintain the temp. A 50w will do it slowly where a 150w will cook anything near it.

Add the rots either when you collect the larva or the next morning. Using IA in co-culture is fine as long as the IA is "good" and has not gone bad becuase of age/contamination. Smell, if it smells good, use it, otherwise get some.

And yes, more water. I started 10g tanks with about 7g. The larger volume makes it easier for all concerned until you have to do water changes that is.

Oh ya, light almost forgot... Do not run it 24/7. You want a 16 hour of light cycle. After coolecting in the more or less dark, keep it that way until morning. Adjust your light to that the larva hang in the middle of the water. You may need to adjust it multiple times to get this result.

24/7 light cycle is bad. It has been proven to reduce the growth of the larva. It has the result as using a 12/12 cycle. 16/8 produces the best growth throughout the growth cycle.

Originally posted by Sanjay
I thought I knew what I was doing... but obviously the larvae did not agree with me.

How much air should I be running ? I was not using a air stone but had a rigid airline running into the tank. is there such a thing as too much water flow for the larve ? I do not think my water was moving too fast for them.

The heater could be an issue. I may have too powerful a heater for that tank (my 50W broke so I used the 150W heater) it creates a 3 degree swing between the high and low and may be doing that too fast ? temp ranged from about 77 to 80. parents tank temp last night was at 77 when I fished the larve out.

I will add more water to the tank next time... make it at least 1/2 full in the 10G tank.

Time to wait, get ready and debug process before next batch of eggs is laid.

sanjay.

[Dlckwood]

I agree with everything that JHardman has to say but with a slight change. I have had the best luck turning the light back on right after the last egg hatches and then I leave the lights on for the next 24 hours. After the first 24 hours I put the lights back onto the normal light cycle. This way, Im giving the larvae just that much extra time to learn how to hunt before their yolk sacks run out. Oh course I also add rots and IA to the tank right after they hatch.
David

[JHardman]

That has merit David, but keep in mind you are running a foot race between hunting skills that are going to develop either way or not and giving the larva a rest period where they are using less yolk. Everything needs it "down time" and just what happens in complex bio system is still quite a guess.

I am of no strong opinion either way. Try it and if it works great, but also consider there maybe something they are missing when doing that. Is it vital, who knows...

Originally posted by Dlckwood
I agree with everything that JHardman has to say but with a slight change. I have had the best luck turning the light back on right after the last egg hatches and then I leave the lights on for the next 24 hours. After the first 24 hours I put the lights back onto the normal light cycle. This way, Im giving the larvae just that much extra time to learn how to hunt before their yolk sacks run out. Oh course I also add rots and IA to the tank right after they hatch.
David

[clkohly]

Originally posted by Dlckwood
I agree with everything that JHardman has to say but with a slight change. I have had the best luck turning the light back on right after the last egg hatches and then I leave the lights on for the next 24 hours. After the first 24 hours I put the lights back onto the normal light cycle. This way, Im giving the larvae just that much extra time to learn how to hunt before their yolk sacks run out. Oh course I also add rots and IA to the tank right after they hatch.
David

Is IA - Instant Algae Paste?

Sorry I am new to this.

[Kathy55g]

yup

[mattydub]

Originally posted by clkohly
Is IA - Instant Algae Paste?

Sorry I am new to this.

not exactly a "paste" it's ordered from here

[Sanjay]

Thanks everyone for your input. This will definately help for this 2nd attempt. I'll go with the 16/8 light cycle and with dark the night I catch the larve, and start feeding with rots the next morning. Waiting till next Wed or Thursday.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

OK.. the 2nd batch hatched tonight. Again on day 9.

Wish me luck :-)

sanjay,

[zooqi]

Good news and I have been waiting for the news..Good luck and keep us posted tomorrow about them.

[Dlckwood]

Good Luck!! I want to see many pics just like my day by day clownfish development thread. I want to see the little ones grow up. Hey, while your at it how about a shot of the lucky egg laying parents.
David

[zooqi]

The way that Sanjay's clowns laid eggs is not easy to take pictures day by day because they are almost under the rock and anemone shades them too. I know he can do nice pictures if his white stripe maroon laid eggs on the spot they were cleaning.

[Dlckwood]

Actually I want pictures that are even harder to take. I would like to see from day of hatch to metamorphasis and so on.
David